Came off trt and estrogen is really low..

[tommyg130]

Came off trt, Test is back up to a good spot , but I used too much vitamin E , and other AIs.

My estrogen is in the gutter and I feel awful. I checked Estrone sulfate as well and it’s low. So I’m truly low estrogen I guess. My cholesterol is high as ****, and my prolactin is high normal.tsh is 1.7.

I think my prolactin is high from depression and lack of overall happiness.

What is more reliable for estrogen? ES1 or prolactin?

How can I safely raise estrogen? It isn’t getting better with time. This may sound crazy to many on this forum but could low dose estradiol cream short term be viable ? My dhea is already top of range , so supp dhea won’t raise my estrogen idt.

I’m so conflicted on if I have high or low estrogen actually. Is es1 being low conclusive enough that
I actually have low estrogen .

 

[xeliex]

I don't think there is an easy way of checking tissue estrogen vs blood estrogen. Since progesterone can purge estrogen from cells, it might increase blood levels. If you want to take anything, I'd say experiment with progesterone.

Why do you link your symptoms with low estrogen? What are your symptoms and when did you come off of TRT? Also what kind of TRT and how much / how long where you on? How old are you? How's your thyroid function?

 

[artist]

Boron is (imo) a safe way to raise estrogen and it will raise androgens too. It’s not like a precursor or anything so it shouldn’t brute force your body into doing anything, it has slightly different effects in men and women for this reason. Just seems to be a booster/balancer of sex hormones, I think it works mainly by lowering SHBG. I am a woman, but it helped me a lot with low estrogen symptoms, as well as with retention of magnesium and calcium which helped me out in other ways. I feel comfortable with it because it’s very effective for me in dosages easily achieved by food (3mg). However I do supplement it.

Nothing Boring About Boron

The trace mineral boron is a micronutrient with diverse and vitally important roles in metabolism that render it necessary for plant, animal, and human health, and as recent research suggests, possibly for the evolution of life on Earth. As the current ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think I lowered my estrogen too much thru megadose supplements as well (aggressive use of vitamin A, zinc, molybdenum, vitamin E etc etc over the years). I also found small (small!) amounts of omega 3s and GLA (borage) helpful. Backing off any large/non physiological dosage of any one nutrient is important ime, I’ve come to feel that practically all of them impact estrogen. Don’t do anything to excessively boost methylation like big b12 dosages etc. Keep caffeine as low as is tolerable/reasonable for your life. I think time/patience also pays off, your body might just need to reorient itself.


On phoenixrising I have heard the observation that manganese raises estrogen but I need to do the legwork in figuring out how that might be. I know it is involved in sex hormone production somehow. Maple syrup makes me feel great and it’s like 200% of the RDA w a few tablespoons, but bigger manganese doses from supplements made me feel gross.

I hope more people chime in as I’m still interested in learning more about this subject. I have heard another RPF poster (male) say that vitamin D helps his low estrogen symptoms, but I have calcium issues that have led me away from that strategy.

 

[artist]

Vitamin D Is an Important Factor in Estrogen Biosynthesis of Both Female and Male Gonads*

Abstract. In the present study, the role of vitamin D in the regulation of estrogen synthesis in gonads was investigated. Vitamin D receptor null mutant mice sh

academic.oup.com

I do think the vitamin D guy is onto something, there seems to be something about calcium homeostasis that is critical for maintaining appropriate (neither too low nor too high) aromatase levels. Rather than taking D3 in my case supplementing calcium (and magnesium and boron) directly has been necessary as I think I had a true calcium deficiency, and I feel much better since doing so.

@tommyg130

 

[Hypermnesia]

I would leave it alone if possible but if not try some fennel tea it has worked for me in the past. And if you take estrogen cream keep the dosage low and use it for only short period of time it will definitely get your aromatase activity up and you won't need it long term.

 

[PeskyPeater]

misconception.

you do not need to increase estrogen.

edit. correction
You are feeling bad because of serotonin effects bc estrogen has SSRI like effects. It takes time to recover the impacted [5-ht1] serotonin feedback system to normal. You will be fine in a while [1]

of course, you will need to work on thyroid function, for it looks terrible :)

and your serotonin is high bc of high prolactin, evidently.

I would consider t4 t3 with cyproheptadine

edit. source of claim [1] An overlooked connection: serotonergic mediation of estrogen-related physiology and pathology

Beyond increasing concentrations of serotonin, E2 also modulates the actions of serotonin because the activation of E2 receptors affects the distribution and state of serotonin receptors. Higher levels of E2 in the presence of progesterone upregulate E2 β receptors (ERβ) and down regulate E2 α receptors (ERα) [24]. ERβ activation results in upregulation of the 5HT2A receptor,[25] while ERα activation results in an increase in 5HT1A receptors via nuclear factor kappa B (NFkB) [26]. Therefore, increasing E2 causes an increase in the density and binding of the 5HT2A receptor,[27,28] which could explain the observed increases in 5HT2A density for post-menstrual teenage girls [29]. 5HT2A activity stimulates an increase in intracellular Ca++,[30] which causes changes in cellular function [17,31]. 5HT2A activation subsequently causes Protein Kinase C (PKC) activation. The effects of increased Ca++ and PKC in cells are system-specific and explain many of the physiological consequences of serotonin activation. One effect of PKC activation is the uncoupling of 5HT1A auto-receptors[32] and decreasing serotonin's effect at these receptors [33,34]. Following 5HT2A activation of PKC, 5HT1A receptors become unable to reduce serotonin production through negative feedback, and serotonin concentrations increase [32-34] E2 compounds this effect by directly inhibiting 5HT1A function [35,36].

 

[allan442]

I have this issue, I think from using AI on TRT. I came off a couple yrs ago and still have no measurable estradiol in serum. I read that Estrogen is needed to induce PEMT so that explained my cognitive decline I think, so I used a lot of choline promoting substances. This solves my poor short-term memory but not the sexual aspect of this issue. Mainly now it's the dry joints, lowered sensitivity (sexually), and dead/dry hair.

I've come across a few others who have dealt with this, and none of those people ever recovered. I believe one person killed themself on another forum. It just seems like some people never restore normal Estrogen levels.

 

[allan442]

Vitamin D Is an Important Factor in Estrogen Biosynthesis of Both Female and Male Gonads*

Abstract. In the present study, the role of vitamin D in the regulation of estrogen synthesis in gonads was investigated. Vitamin D receptor null mutant mice sh

academic.oup.com

I do think the vitamin D guy is onto something, there seems to be something about calcium homeostasis that is critical for maintaining appropriate (neither too low nor too high) aromatase levels. Rather than taking D3 in my case supplementing calcium (and magnesium and boron) directly has been necessary as I think I had a true calcium deficiency, and I feel much better since doing so.

@tommyg130

Hi, I can agree with you that supplementing calcium had a beneficial effect but I assumed it was from improved metabolism as a whole.
Were you able to reliably increase serum estradiol long-term?

 

[PeskyPeater]

I would not try to increase estrogen or aromatase.

What you can do is increase StAR with PEA palmitoylethanolamide

 

[PeskyPeater]

I have this issue, I think from using AI on TRT. I came off a couple yrs ago and still have no measurable estradiol in serum. I read that Estrogen is needed to induce PEMT so that explained my cognitive decline I think, so I used a lot of choline promoting substances. This solves my poor short-term memory but not the sexual aspect of this issue. Mainly now it's the dry joints, lowered sensitivity (sexually), and dead/dry hair.

I've come across a few others who have dealt with this, and none of those people ever recovered. I believe one person killed themself on another forum. It just seems like some people never restore normal Estrogen levels.

These are estrogen symptoms, by using AI you have developed hypersensitivity to estrogen.

edit; cyproheptadine is also an estrogen alpha inhibitor.

 

[allan442]

These are estrogen symptoms, by using AI you have developed hypersensitivity to estrogen.

edit; cyproheptadine is also an estrogen alpha inhibitor.

Thanks. I'm open to being completely wrong about what the issue is - I have been dealing with this for years and some others I've seen too. As far as I know, this issue is heavily involving Estrogen.

Unfortunately cypro doesn't do much, maybe make me a little slower mentally. I've tried higher doses too. Terribly groggy the next day. Sure, maybe some improvement in mood the next day but that is more likely the serotonin-lowering effects. But by no means am I cured on cypro.

Anything that inhibits aromatase will immediately make me worse.. in all aspects.

Do you have anything else regarding 'hypersensitivity to Estrogen"?

 

[PeskyPeater]

Thanks. I'm open to being completely wrong about what the issue is - I have been dealing with this for years and some others I've seen too. As far as I know, this issue is heavily involving Estrogen.

Unfortunately cypro doesn't do much, maybe make me a little slower mentally. I've tried higher doses too. Terribly groggy the next day. Sure, maybe some improvement in mood the next day but that is more likely the serotonin-lowering effects. But by no means am I cured on cypro.

Anything that inhibits aromatase will immediately make me worse.. in all aspects.

Do you have anything else regarding 'hypersensitivity to Estrogen"?

Thanks for your reaction.

Seems to me, addressing the steroidogenic acute regulatory protein (StAR) with PEA, will increase the movement of cholesterol to increase aromatase and may restore the expression of estrogen, form estradiol E2 that can induce COX-2 to form prostaglandin E2 which then stimulates StAR and aromatase, so restoring the metabolic pathway, while doing the same for androgenic expression elsewhere.

edit - sources

Thyroid medicine or carbonic anhydrase inhibitors can have the same effect on StAR as PEA.

Interaction of thyroid hormone and steroidogenic acute regulatory (StAR) protein in the regulation of murine Leydig cell steroidogenesis - PubMed
Palmitoylethanolamide stimulation induces allopregnanolone synthesis in C6 Cells and primary astrocytes: involvement of peroxisome-proliferator activated receptor-α - PubMed

 

[allan442]

Thanks for your reaction.

Seems to me, addressing the steroidogenic acute regulatory protein (StAR) with PEA, will increase the movement of cholesterol to increase aromatase and may restore the expression of estrogen, form estradiol E2 that can induce COX-2 to form prostaglandin E2 which then stimulates StAR and aromatase, so restoring the metabolic pathway, while doing the same for androgenic expression elsewhere.

edit - sources

Thyroid medicine or carbonic anhydrase inhibitors can have the same effect on StAR as PEA.

Interaction of thyroid hormone and steroidogenic acute regulatory (StAR) protein in the regulation of murine Leydig cell steroidogenesis - PubMed
Palmitoylethanolamide stimulation induces allopregnanolone synthesis in C6 Cells and primary astrocytes: involvement of peroxisome-proliferator activated receptor-α - PubMed

Thanks
I have tried Thyroid hormone, but I don't really think I'm hypothyroid, at least according to temperatures. I did experiment with things that can increase StAR, even topically on the scrotum. I believe the reaction was a few days of increased libido and mood. I understand your line of thinking, which is why I might at some point trial HCG.

In my mind it's strange how the expression of various enzymes and proteins stays 'stuck' and requires something to get it going again, after whatever the cause was is removed. Shouldn't these loops after a long enough time return to normal or close?

Also, considering normal testosterone levels, could it not be assumed that cholesterol conversion specifically is somewhat normal?

 

[PeskyPeater]

Thanks
I have tried Thyroid hormone, but I don't really think I'm hypothyroid, at least according to temperatures. I did experiment with things that can increase StAR, even topically on the scrotum. I believe the reaction was a few days of increased libido and mood. I understand your line of thinking, which is why I might at some point trial HCG.

In my mind it's strange how the expression of various enzymes and proteins stays 'stuck' and requires something to get it going again, after whatever the cause was is removed. Shouldn't these loops after a long enough time return to normal or close?

Also, considering normal testosterone levels, could it not be assumed that cholesterol conversion specifically is somewhat normal?

You should measure temp together with the heart rate between 11h and 15h with a pulse in 80 BPM..

Dr peat said structure and energy are directly related.
When the structure is changed (altered cell function via aromatase inhibition), it does not have the energy to pull itself back, it's 'stuck' in that state and you have to 'push' it back up to run as a coherent system like an oiled machine.

 

[allan442]

You should measure temp together with the heart rate between 11h and 15h with a pulse in 80 BPM..

Dr peat said structure and energy are directly related.
When the structure is changed (altered cell function via aromatase inhibition), it does not have the energy to pull itself back, it's 'stuck' in that state and you have to 'push' it back up to run as a coherent system like an oiled machine.

My temperatures at those times would have a minimum of 98.6 and can go higher. I don't really check anymore though but wouldn't be surprised if it's still the same. Pulse usually in the 70s according to my watch.

I have a fairly large appetite without weight gain, I eat quite a bit. Thyroid did not do much like I said, and if the problem is energy I don't think it's from a lack of thyroid hormone. I've tried the nutrition route, all the way through. But again in theory that idea makes sense to me.

 

[allan442]

I don't have any reason to think infection or heavy metal or anything, at least not to my knowledge.

Also the best word I have for damage from AI use is 'dementia'

 

[PeskyPeater]

My temperatures at those times would have a minimum of 98.6 and can go higher. I don't really check anymore though but wouldn't be surprised if it's still the same. Pulse usually in the 70s according to my watch.

I have a fairly large appetite without weight gain, I eat quite a bit. Thyroid did not do much like I said, and if the problem is energy I don't think it's from a lack of thyroid hormone. I've tried the nutrition route, all the way through. But again in theory that idea makes sense to me.

oke, seems your thyroid function is doing fine, nothing left to exploit there I suppose.

I would look for acetazolamide, PEA, and HcG

 

[ddjd]

I did experiment with things that can increase StAR, even topically on the scrotum.

what did you experiment with to increase StAR?