Bodyfat And Testosterone

[DuggaDugga]

"Stress" hormones are simply energy mobilization hormones. There is nothing wrong with elevating these sometimes, and you will never lose bodyfat if you keep them low all the time. In fact keeping them too low will make you feel terrible. Have you ever spoken to someone with cortisol deficiency?

And tou don't need high conversion of thyroid when you aren't burning a lot of carbohydrate. It's a self regulating system.

Cortisol does mobilize energy substrates, while also causing insulin resistance and abdominal fat deposition.

The effects of cortisol on insulin sensitivity in muscle. - PubMed - NCBI
Cortisol-induced insulin resistance in man: impaired suppression of glucose production and stimulation of glucose utilization due to a postreceptor... - PubMed - NCBI
Deconstructing the roles of glucocorticoids in adipose tissue biology and the development of central obesity

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[James IV]

Cortisol does mobilize energy substrates, while also causing insulin resistance and abdominal fat deposition.

The effects of cortisol on insulin sensitivity in muscle. - PubMed - NCBI
Cortisol-induced insulin resistance in man: impaired suppression of glucose production and stimulation of glucose utilization due to a postreceptor... - PubMed - NCBI
Deconstructing the roles of glucocorticoids in adipose tissue biology and the development of central obesity

What are your thoughts on this?

None of those things are bad acutely. You want musco-skeletal Insulin resistance to be high when energy availability is low. That keeps you from dying. Everyone thinks deposition of fat is bad, it's not. You want to store fat in the abdomen, because it's the fat that is most readily used when it's needed. If you start depositing it in the arms and legs, that's a bad sign. Futhurmore, you can't mobilize AND store fat at the same time. You won't store fat when cortisol is elevated, unless you overeat, and even that isn't bad if you mobilize that fat later on.

Try getting out of bed in the morning, or exercising, without cortisol. Try dealing with intense situations without epinephrine.
I think labeling the catecholamines as "stress" hormones was really a poor choice by Dr Peat. It seems to really throw people off, and make folks believe they are to be avoided at all costs.

 

[dibble]

None of those things are bad acutely. You want musco-skeletal Insulin resistance to be high when energy availability is low. That keeps you from dying. Everyone thinks deposition of fat is bad, it's not. You want to store fat in the abdomen, because it's the fat that is most readily used when it's needed. If you start depositing it in the arms and legs, that's a bad sign. Futhurmore, you can't mobilize AND store fat at the same time. You won't store fat when cortisol is elevated, unless you overeat, and even that isn't bad if you mobilize that fat later on.

Try getting out of bed in the morning, or exercising, without cortisol. Try dealing with intense situations without epinephrine.
I think labeling the catecholamines as "stress" hormones was really a poor choice by Dr Peat. It seems to really throw people off, and make folks believe they are to be avoided at all costs.

Which folk, ones which havent read his work?

 

[James IV]

Which folk, ones which havent read his work?

A lot of folks believe stress hormones are bad absolutely, I don't think that's uncommon.

 

[Stramonium]

Serotonin does not pass the BBB, this is for intestinal contraction.

I believe Ray has emphasize many times on the correlation between digestion and mood. Personally I find fasting aggravating even for a few hours mood changing towards irritability.

 

[Tarmander]

I see the very same thing, and I agree with you that fasting can be detrimental if applied improperly. However, we can say the same for any weight loss regime. The key is balance.
The biggest issue I see with fasting is that humans like black and white, and routine. If they fast 24 hours one week, and see good results, they want to fast 24 hours every week, regardless of what that week was like from an energy demand. You have to look at total stress input and current state of health, before you add fasting to that. I rarely put clients in any sort of fat loss program until I spend a month or so addressing potential nutritional deficits. I won't suggest a client fast regularly, until they feel pretty good overall. I don't have any set schedule and sometimes they may fast 5-10 days one month, and zero the next. It's always based on their current environment. Fasting is best when you have the least to do, and the least on your mind. Most people do the opposite because they like the boost from elevated catecholamines. This is the best way to wreck your system. Feed when energy demands are high, fast when they are low.
I also make sure there are days where myself and my clients just lay around and eat all day. Those are equally as important as the days you eat less frequently, or not at all.

My childhood was "normal" i suppose. Not terrible, but not sheltered either. A decent balance of death, divorce, violence, and love, support, friendship.

So your qualification for fasting is that they feel good for awhile? I don't know man, I have felt good for probably the last six months or so and fasting would still do me in. Do you have other criteria you could share? I hear the key is "balance," but what does that actually look like?

I have a hunch that most of these people who are getting benefits from fasting have really solid childhoods, or grew up eating good food, or something along those lines. My dad grew up at high elevation eating home cooked meals everyday and did not have many cares. The guy is a machine, can work like no other. He is just starting to slow down in his 60s and I have no doubt that fasting for him once or twice a year would be just fine. Myself on the other hand lived through complete chaos from age 7 to age 25, frozen meals, glued to a TV. I don't think doing anything that would raise adrenaline in me is a good idea. It feels AWFUL.

If this theory I have here is right, it kind of goes back to what I said at first. If you are strong then you can fast, and if weak you can't...but that begs the question. What is the point? If someone is of strong health they can just cut calories for awhile and lose some poundage. If weak, fasting is just doing them dirty.

 

[DuggaDugga]

None of those things are bad acutely. You want musco-skeletal Insulin resistance to be high when energy availability is low. That keeps you from dying. Everyone thinks deposition of fat is bad, it's not. You want to store fat in the abdomen, because it's the fat that is most readily used when it's needed. If you start depositing it in the arms and legs, that's a bad sign. Futhurmore, you can't mobilize AND store fat at the same time. You won't store fat when cortisol is elevated, unless you overeat, and even that isn't bad if you mobilize that fat later on.

Try getting out of bed in the morning, or exercising, without cortisol. Try dealing with intense situations without epinephrine.
I think labeling the catecholamines as "stress" hormones was really a poor choice by Dr Peat. It seems to really throw people off, and make folks believe they are to be avoided at all costs.

Exactly! So why would you do something to your body that unnecessarily promotes that?
The stress response is good when it's in response to an actual, unavoidable stressor. That allows survival. The idea that low-carbing, intermittent fasting, endurance exercise, and other unnecessary practices that induce a stress response is somehow beneficial is bankrupt of logic.

Please provide any amount of literature that justifies what you're conjecturing. Let's make this constructive.

 

[gbolduev]

None of those things are bad acutely. You want musco-skeletal Insulin resistance to be high when energy availability is low. That keeps you from dying. Everyone thinks deposition of fat is bad, it's not. You want to store fat in the abdomen, because it's the fat that is most readily used when it's needed. If you start depositing it in the arms and legs, that's a bad sign. Futhurmore, you can't mobilize AND store fat at the same time. You won't store fat when cortisol is elevated, unless you overeat, and even that isn't bad if you mobilize that fat later on.

Try getting out of bed in the morning, or exercising, without cortisol. Try dealing with intense situations without epinephrine.
I think labeling the catecholamines as "stress" hormones was really a poor choice by Dr Peat. It seems to really throw people off, and make folks believe they are to be avoided at all costs.

100% agree..

 

[Frankdee20]

I believe Ray has emphasize many times on the correlation between digestion and mood. Personally I find fasting aggravating even for a few hours mood changing towards irritability.

Yeah, fasting makes me want to kill every idiot driving slow in Brooklyn, especially Foreigners. Like, I would really like to kill them, with my hands around their neck.

 

[Frankdee20]

They double park everywhere, never get parking tickets, they never signal when they are going to pull over in front of you, they're on their cell phone at a red light, they go 15 mph in a 35, WTF !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Frankdee20]

The degree of irritability is profound when I'm hungry

 

[James IV]

Ok. You guys probably shouldn't fast then. Cheers.

 

[Stramonium]

The thing is we already live in a stress driven society probably don't need anymore of that

 

[Frankdee20]

Exactly right, that's why I'm all for genocide of bad drivers.

 

[DavePalumbo]

The claim that low body fat increases testosterone, and high body fat lowers it, is junk science if the person with low body fat has low body fat because he eats little fat. You need to eat big portions of animal fat to maintain high androgen levels. The increased estrogen from high body fat CAN also have an androgenic effect.

Tell me, are dykes thin or are they fat? Dykes, lesbian women who act masculine, are always fat... So there you go, eat fat to increase testosterone.
Of course, yes, the most feminine women (highest estrogen and progesterone, and most feminine body) are also fat... so it's confusing indeed. The same goes for men.

Now, if there is some magic pill to prevent you from MAINTAINING body fat, then HAVING low body fat WHILE eating lots of animal fat would be even better than having high body fat while eating a lot of animal fat.

 

[kayumochi]

I am still skeptical, mostly from my years working in a health store. The amount of times that someone came up to me, and started talking about fasting...god their future was so predictable. They always felt great at first, cut the pounds, but some aspects of their life needed "growth and attention." It wasn't long before they had broken up with their S.O., were looking for a new job, moving some other place, or some other big life change. 6 months later they would come in tired from all these life changes, but ready to hit the fasting again when things stabilized, in remembrance of the mental clarity of an empty stomach. Within a year or two, they would be more tired, fatter, and run down then before.

Years and years ago I was a health food store habitue. Then, much later I worked for a company that manufactured and sold a range of products to these stores. Natural food stores attract a type of person who wants to make life changes and who thinks those changes can be brought about by changes to the body. Sometimes they can, sure, but I my experience shows me that the changes that most people really want don't lie at the level of the body at all.

Funny thing about my time working in the manufacturing/sales side of the industry: store owners are diagnosed with cancer at a rate higher than the average population it seemed to me. And I don't mean they were diagnosed before opening the store and later went into business. No. They were diagnosed after being in business for years. And they hide the diagnosis from their clientele because they feel like failures. Then they die. I saw it over and over and found it again in records we kept on stores that went back years.

 

[Hans]

In my experience, the best fat loss happens from a caloric deficit, independent if someone has liver/thyroid etc. issues. The deficit should be small. Light exercise is advised. The more active you are, the more you will be able to eat, as then your daily energy expenditure will be higher.
Eliminate nutritional deficiencies and use a few supplements to correct hormones, fix thyroid, fix liver, etc... I wouldn't advise fasting.
Most people respond well when keeping protein highish and never let yourself become hungry. Consider a colon cleanse and a liver and gall bladder detox. Get enough sleep to let your body and mind recover.

 

[Hans]

Years and years ago I was a health food store habitue. Then, much later I worked for a company that manufactured and sold a range of products to these stores. Natural food stores attract a type of person who wants to make life changes and who thinks those changes can be brought about by changes to the body. Sometimes they can, sure, but I my experience shows me that the changes that most people really want don't lie at the level of the body at all.

Funny thing about my time working in the manufacturing/sales side of the industry: store owners are diagnosed with cancer at a rate higher than the average population it seemed to me. And I don't mean they were diagnosed before opening the store and later went into business. No. They were diagnosed after being in business for years. And they hide the diagnosis from their clientele because they feel like failures. Then they die. I saw it over and over and found it again in records we kept on stores that went back years.

So true. Here in South Africa, everyone that works at a health shop or owns one, is obese and very ill.

 

[kayumochi]

So true. Here in South Africa, everyone that works at a health shop or owns one, is obese and very ill.

After being in the industry I became wary of it. Can't recall the last time I have been inside an independent health food/natural food store.

 

[Braveheart]

In my experience, the best fat loss happens from a caloric deficit, independent if someone has liver/thyroid etc. issues. The deficit should be small. Light exercise is advised. The more active you are, the more you will be able to eat, as then your daily energy expenditure will be higher.
Eliminate nutritional deficiencies and use a few supplements to correct hormones, fix thyroid, fix liver, etc... I wouldn't advise fasting.
Most people respond well when keeping protein highish and never let yourself become hungry. Consider a colon cleanse and a liver and gall bladder detox. Get enough sleep to let your body and mind recover.