Low estrogen? Is this possible?

username111

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So I did a blood test recently and found out that I am low estrogen, but above average prolactin near upper threshold. I made a post before pertaining lack of morning wood and it may be connected.
I do blood test once every few years as they always draw too much blood for my liking and I pass out. I dont really like that. The test was last week, the older one is from few years ago and it doesnt have estrogen or prolactin on it, but has testosterone and dht, so I thought if these two are high - estrogen/prolactin should be fine. I am male in my 20's with healthy bw and 10-12 %bf. Moderate exercise and healthy diet. Low stress job.

Anyway, I seem to have low libido despite sky high testosterone and reading these forums I learned that estrogen is the "horny hormone". My aromatase seems to "malfunction", I tried reducing prolactin with vit e and b6, but they seem to crash my estrogen and I get borderline ed, but I need to raise my estrogen a bit- so its a dilemma.

I never experienced the notorious morning wood in my life nor "random erections" like literally everybody around me, but I never gave it a thought until now.

How to reduce prolactin?
How to raise estrogen a bit for a healthier libido?
 

maillol

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Yes it is possible to have low estrogen. I've been there - no libido, no strength, no emotion. Prostaglandins stimulate aromatase gene expression and thereby stimulate estrogen biosynthesis. Prostaglandins are derived from arachidonic acid. The easiest and safest way to raise it is egg yolks. Avoid aspirin and coffee.
 
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username111

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Wouldn’t low blood estrogen and high prolactin point to high tissue estrogen?
It may, so what should I do?
Yes it is possible to have low estrogen. I've been there - no libido, no strength, no emotion. Prostaglandins stimulate aromatase gene expression and thereby stimulate estrogen biosynthesis. Prostaglandins are derived from arachidonic acid. The easiest and safest way to raise it is egg yolks. Avoid aspirin and coffee.
No libido and emotion - literally my experiences. Ill try more eggs then. I dont take aspirin because it made me feel worse, now I know why. What some other foods or maybe over the counter supplements that could help?
Thanks for the advice.
 

aniciete

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It may, so what should I do?
Trying to figure out the same thing currently. Low estrogen and above the range prolactin.

I agree with the poster above too. I didn’t know that about Prostaglandins but egg yolks are probably the only thing that consistently gives me strong erections.
 

Kram

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Have had similar issues and shave struggled with low estradiol the past three to four years. Reading different forums, a lot of people say low estradiol is worse than low t and I might have to agree. The safest way to raise is probably just to avoid any natural aromatase inhibitors even like caffeine and eat lots of cholesterol.

I am debating whether to try low dose HCG a few times a week as I haven't had much success with the natural routes (have tried boron, dhea plus some other things).
 

blackface

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Anybody has any additional advice on what should I do?
I have a simillar issue and you can check my thread that I have created. I have crashed my estrogen with Aromasin and with transdermal hormones.

I have stopped taking Vitamin E, aspirin and other hormones.

Now Im trying to supplement with 12 mg od boron a day and I must say that it definietly helped me. Its cheap so you can try that.
 

blackface

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Yes it is possible to have low estrogen. I've been there - no libido, no strength, no emotion. Prostaglandins stimulate aromatase gene expression and thereby stimulate estrogen biosynthesis. Prostaglandins are derived from arachidonic acid. The easiest and safest way to raise it is egg yolks. Avoid aspirin and coffee.
Do you really think that coffee have that strong ai effects? Im just wondering if I should give it a try.
 
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username111

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I have a simillar issue and you can check my thread that I have created. I have crashed my estrogen with Aromasin and with transdermal hormones.

I have stopped taking Vitamin E, aspirin and other hormones.

Now Im trying to supplement with 12 mg od boron a day and I must say that it definietly helped me. Its cheap so you can try that.
I used to take Boron before and didnt notice any libido increase. You mentioned DHEA- did you have any success with that?
 

pondering

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Yes it is possible to have low estrogen. I've been there - no libido, no strength, no emotion. Prostaglandins stimulate aromatase gene expression and thereby stimulate estrogen biosynthesis. Prostaglandins are derived from arachidonic acid. The easiest and safest way to raise it is egg yolks. Avoid aspirin and coffee.

I don’t know if this entirely translates to men, but going low Vitamin A seems to be making me produce less estrogen, which has not been good in my case. Perhaps also part of why the egg yolks mentioned above have an affect? A couple books have noted this in animals:

The Vitamins: Fundamental Aspects and Nutrition and Health (ISBN: 978–0–12–802965–7)

REPRODUCTION. Studies with animals have demonstrated that vitamin A is required for normal reproduction. For example, rats maintained with retinoic acid grow well and appear healthy but lose reproductive ability, i.e., males show impaired spermatogenesis and females abort and resorb their fetuses. Injection of retinol into the testis restores spermatogenesis, indicating that vitamin A has a direct role in that organ. The chicken has been shown to require retinoic acid for spermatogenesis; all mammalian species examined to date require retinol or retinal. It has been proposed that these effects are secondary to lesions in cellular differentiation and/or hormonal sensitivity. Several researchers have found that vitamin A-deficient dairy cows show reduced corpus luteal production of progesterone and increased intervals between luteinizing hormone peak and ovulation. Some evidence indicates that hormonal parameters respond to oral treatment with beta carotene but not preformed vitamin A, suggesting the importance of retinol/retinal production in situ.

———-

Introductory Nutrition
Helen Andrews Guthrie

REPRODUCTION. The role of vitamin A in promoting fertility in animals was one of the first discovered. Either vitamin A alcohol (retinol) or its aldehyde derivative (retinaldehyde) is necessary for normal reproduction in rats. Retinoic acid is not necessary. In its absence, failure of spermatogenesis occurs in the male, and fetal resorption occurs in the female. The exact biochemical mechanism is unknown, but it has been shown that although the alcohol form of vitamin A is effective in stimulating normal reproduction, vitamin A acid will permit conception but will not prevent fetal resorption. A decrease in estrogen synthesis observed in vitamin A deficiency where there is a failure to convert cholesterol to the hormone may be related to the abnormalities in reproduction in the female. In the male vitamin A acts directly on testes rather than through hormones.
 
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username111

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I don’t know if this entirely translates to men, but going low Vitamin A seems to be making me produce less estrogen, which has not been good in my case. Perhaps also part of why the egg yolks mentioned above have an affect? A couple books have noted this in animals:

The Vitamins: Fundamental Aspects and Nutrition and Health (ISBN: 978–0–12–802965–7)

REPRODUCTION. Studies with animals have demonstrated that vitamin A is required for normal reproduction. For example, rats maintained with retinoic acid grow well and appear healthy but lose reproductive ability, i.e., males show impaired spermatogenesis and females abort and resorb their fetuses. Injection of retinol into the testis restores spermatogenesis, indicating that vitamin A has a direct role in that organ. The chicken has been shown to require retinoic acid for spermatogenesis; all mammalian species examined to date require retinol or retinal. It has been proposed that these effects are secondary to lesions in cellular differentiation and/or hormonal sensitivity. Several researchers have found that vitamin A-deficient dairy cows show reduced corpus luteal production of progesterone and increased intervals between luteinizing hormone peak and ovulation. Some evidence indicates that hormonal parameters respond to oral treatment with beta carotene but not preformed vitamin A, suggesting the importance of retinol/retinal production in situ.

———-

Introductory Nutrition
Helen Andrews Guthrie

REPRODUCTION. The role of vitamin A in promoting fertility in animals was one of the first discovered. Either vitamin A alcohol (retinol) or its aldehyde derivative (retinaldehyde) is necessary for normal reproduction in rats. Retinoic acid is not necessary. In its absence, failure of spermatogenesis occurs in the male, and fetal resorption occurs in the female. The exact biochemical mechanism is unknown, but it has been shown that although the alcohol form of vitamin A is effective in stimulating normal reproduction, vitamin A acid will permit conception but will not prevent fetal resorption. A decrease in estrogen synthesis observed in vitamin A deficiency where there is a failure to convert cholesterol to the hormone may be related to the abnormalities in reproduction in the female. In the male vitamin A acts directly on testes rather than through hormones.

Nice reply. From what Im getting
vitamin A acts directly on testes rather than through hormones
But I have very high T levels according to labs, so I would think that testes are fine? The study you mentioned states that lack of Vit A decreased estrogen in females.

Would upping this vitamin improve my condition? Eggs work, not sure on half life of estrogen in blood, but libido disappears within few hours of eating eggs for me.
What are some foods you would recommend?
As for Vitamin A supplementation: which kind of A and how much?
 

martybyrde

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I have this issue and still have no cause or solution. I don't like how Boron makes me feel. Maybe it's related to heavy metals somehow idk. E2 in single digits below range, Testosterone over 600 ng/dL, poor libido.

A huge amount of sunlight plus aiming for higher calcium intake helps me a little but it's not full resolution of symptoms. Supplemental D makes it worse I think.

Also I think another possible cause is the gut, at least from my experience. Drinking probiotic drinks seems to improve my libido consistently but at the expense of not being able to properly digest dairy (bloating, acne, etc.). I had a 2 week run with a little bit of kefir and every single day I had strong morning wood and libido, and it went away after stopping the kefir for a few days. And maybe that's why sunlight helps because every summer most of my digestive issues like constipation disappear.
 
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username111

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I have this issue and still have no cause or solution. I don't like how Boron makes me feel. Maybe it's related to heavy metals somehow idk. E2 in single digits below range, Testosterone over 600 ng/dL, poor libido.

A huge amount of sunlight plus aiming for higher calcium intake helps me a little but it's not full resolution of symptoms. Supplemental D makes it worse I think.

Also I think another possible cause is the gut, at least from my experience. Drinking probiotic drinks seems to improve my libido consistently but at the expense of not being able to properly digest dairy (bloating, acne, etc.). I had a 2 week run with a little bit of kefir and every single day I had strong morning wood and libido, and it went away after stopping the kefir for a few days. And maybe that's why sunlight helps because every summer most of my digestive issues like constipation disappear.
Interesting: Ill try kefir today. Would probiotics in pill form for digestion or apple cider vinegar work for you the same way as kefir?
 

martybyrde

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Interesting: Ill try kefir today. Would probiotics in pill form for digestion or apple cider vinegar work for you the same way as kefir?
I have tried probiotics before and had somewhat bad experiences. I think it’s not wise to supplement probiotics in general.

Kefir has a big range of different bacterial species but also includes yeast and fungi which may be a better way to consume probiotics, I believe. But gut micro biome stuff is extremely complicated so who really know anyways.
 

maillol

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Another aspect worth considering is estrogen receptors. You can have normal estradiol levels but not feel good because your receptors are down-regulated (de-sensitised). There is estrogen receptor alpha and estrogen receptor beta. They effectively antagonise each other. Beta activity will lower alpha activity and vice versa. ERa is the one involved in bone growth and I suspect it is the feel-good one. It also seems to be the one involved in cancer so remember I'm just some idiot on the internet.

I think the trouble with things like soy and environmental estrogens is not their estrogenicity but the fact that they bind to estrogen receptors while being less active than endogenous estradiol and are generally far more selective for ER beta. The world is full of substances that interfere with estrogen receptors and a big one is iron.


A negative correlation between aging-related systemic iron deposition and ERα expression in postmenopausal AS patients was established. In an ovariectomized ApoE-/- mouse model, estradiol treatment had contrasting effects on ERα expression in early versus late postmenopausal mice. ERα expression was inhibited by iron treatment in cell culture and iron-overloaded mice. Combined treatment with estradiol and iron further decreased ERα expression, mediated by iron-regulated E3 ligase Mdm2. In line with these observations, cellular cholesterol efflux was reduced and endothelial homeostasis was disrupted and, consequently, atherosclerosis was aggravated. Accordingly, systemic iron chelation attenuated estradiol-triggered progressive atherosclerosis in late postmenopausal mice. Thus, iron and estradiol together downregulate ERα through Mdm2-mediated proteolysis, explaining failures of HRT in late postmenopausal subjects with aging-related iron accumulation.

From <Aging-related iron deposit prevents the benefits of HRT from late postmenopausal atherosclerosis>

Testosterone upregulates ERb but it aromatises to estradiol which upregulates ERa so it should balance out, but if your aromatase enzyme is inhibited I think it's going to exaccerbate the problem. This could be why aromatase inhibitors often take so long to recover from, they create a self perpetuating state.

I've personally had a lot of benefits from reducing iron so I always think it's worth trying especially if you have low estrogen symptoms.

I have a theory that the ideal situation would be to have sensitive estrogen receptors which would therefore require less circulating estradiol, avoiding the negative sides of estrogen like cancer and burden on the liver.
 

martybyrde

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Another aspect worth considering is estrogen receptors. You can have normal estradiol levels but not feel good because your receptors are down-regulated (de-sensitised). There is estrogen receptor alpha and estrogen receptor beta. They effectively antagonise each other. Beta activity will lower alpha activity and vice versa. ERa is the one involved in bone growth and I suspect it is the feel-good one. It also seems to be the one involved in cancer so remember I'm just some idiot on the internet.

I think the trouble with things like soy and environmental estrogens is not their estrogenicity but the fact that they bind to estrogen receptors while being less active than endogenous estradiol and are generally far more selective for ER beta. The world is full of substances that interfere with estrogen receptors and a big one is iron.



Testosterone upregulates ERb but it aromatises to estradiol which upregulates ERa so it should balance out, but if your aromatase enzyme is inhibited I think it's going to exaccerbate the problem. This could be why aromatase inhibitors often take so long to recover from, they create a self perpetuating state.

I've personally had a lot of benefits from reducing iron so I always think it's worth trying especially if you have low estrogen symptoms.

I have a theory that the ideal situation would be to have sensitive estrogen receptors which would therefore require less circulating estradiol, avoiding the negative sides of estrogen like cancer and burden on the liver.
Right ok before I had this issue I also took some AIs for a while, years back.

How do you suppose one could regain sensitivity?
 
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username111

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Another aspect worth considering is estrogen receptors. You can have normal estradiol levels but not feel good because your receptors are down-regulated (de-sensitised). There is estrogen receptor alpha and estrogen receptor beta. They effectively antagonise each other. Beta activity will lower alpha activity and vice versa. ERa is the one involved in bone growth and I suspect it is the feel-good one. It also seems to be the one involved in cancer so remember I'm just some idiot on the internet.

I think the trouble with things like soy and environmental estrogens is not their estrogenicity but the fact that they bind to estrogen receptors while being less active than endogenous estradiol and are generally far more selective for ER beta. The world is full of substances that interfere with estrogen receptors and a big one is iron.



Testosterone upregulates ERb but it aromatises to estradiol which upregulates ERa so it should balance out, but if your aromatase enzyme is inhibited I think it's going to exaccerbate the problem. This could be why aromatase inhibitors often take so long to recover from, they create a self perpetuating state.

I've personally had a lot of benefits from reducing iron so I always think it's worth trying especially if you have low estrogen symptoms.

I have a theory that the ideal situation would be to have sensitive estrogen receptors which would therefore require less circulating estradiol, avoiding the negative sides of estrogen like cancer and burden on the liver.
Just like the poster above: how to gain sensitivity of Estrogen receptors ( I never took AI)
 

pondering

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But I have very high T levels according to labs, so I would think that testes are fine? The study you mentioned states that lack of Vit A decreased estrogen in females.
Yeah, that’s why I said I’m not sure if this translates to men. I am just a random lay person on the internet too, trying to solve some health issues, and finding myself reading nutrition books and papers as a result—not my forte btw. Perhaps there’s someone on the forum who understands the intracacies of the various sex hormones who can help us out.

Would upping this vitamin improve my condition? Eggs work, not sure on half life of estrogen in blood, but libido disappears within few hours of eating eggs for me.
What are some foods you would recommend?
As for Vitamin A supplementation: which kind of A and how much?
In my case, I know too high and too low vitamin A is causing issues based on diet/supplemental history. Seems one needs a balance, not too much, but not too little either.

Is a low vitamin A or a deficiency even plausible for you? You said you eat eggs, so perhaps not?

Having caused myself major issues by overdoing it, I don’t recommend vitamin A supplementation. Not saying it can’t be helpful to some though.

Vitamin A seems relatively easy to get from foods. Animal (retinol) sources are the active fully formed vitamin A : Liver (high), eggs, dairy, fish and other seafood, chicken, pork, etc

Plant (pro-vitamin A or carotenoid) sources with beta carotene being the most well-known. Carotenoids give fruits and veggies their bright colors (orange, green, yellow, red). This has to be converted to pro vitamin A in the body and some people might not convert well. Sweet potato (high), carrots (high), dark leafy greens (high), lettuces, oranges, peppers, tomatoes, etc.
 
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