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Best Way Of Eating Non-Peat To Bulk Up?

Discussion in 'Diet, Recipes' started by vulture, Mar 11, 2018.

  1. vulture

    vulture Member

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    Ok guys, I just got my weight checked and it's absurdly low, I'm a 1.83 m guy with 64.4 Kg and low fat, but I think one of my main problems might be I need to give my body a lot of food for months in order to get a decent weight and body assume that there's no more caloric restriction. Problem is that Peating with a 4 or 5 k calories diet is a pain in the butt

    I assume best way to go is to keep a routine of EVCO, vit E, vit B complex, caffeine, aspirin, zinc, liver and balanced fruit/veggie intake in order to reduce PUFA storage and harmful effects. I read from Haidut that eating EVCO and vit E along with PUFA foods would avoid harmful effects greatly

    I also still have 11-keto DHT that seems to make me real hungry, that might be handy.
    I can recall a time when I weighted 83kg, I had more fat, but also more muscle, I got there eating like a beast, specially a milk, icecream, eggs, whey, banana, olive oil beverage along with every meal (5 to 6). Lots of bread and significative PUFA intake also.

    I'm seriously considering stop caring so much about PUFA, eating 6 eggs or more a day would be great for my budget and easier, eating icecream, bread, etc would make my life a lot easier, less stressful, etc. Also I'm starting to feel like bored AF about my diet.
     
  2. theLaw

    theLaw Member

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    @vulture

    I would take a step back as it appears you might be hitting the sups a bit too hard.

    Grass-fed Whole milk + sugar + some enjoyable food (even if it's not 100% Peaty) each meal, and insuring that you get your micros from beef liver/oysters. You can also sip/savor juice between meals for blood sugar.

    Also, making sure to chew your food thoroughly to start proper digestion in the mouth along with savoring milk/juice to let your enzymes do their work before hitting your gut. No need to rush the process. I used to eat so fast that my ex-gf worried that I would choke.

    Chelating excess Iron and using Thyroid are other solution that might help (cilantro and Tyromix).

    Finally, if you're hypo, even moderate amounts of activity can drain your Thyroid in a very short time (I think that Peat mentioned a study where the participant's Thyroid tanked in only 90 minutes of walking).:dead:
     
  3. Glassy

    Glassy Member

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    I wouldn’t be considering non-peat methods in that the results would be a slower metabolism. I think you mean less peaty methods in that he has cautioned their use but they’re not in the class of PUFAs (vegetable/seed oils). The non strict nature of Dr Peats guidance means that there are many grey areas (such as non pastured eggs) you can use. They’re not ideal but they’re not forbidden either. Things like starches and powdered protein powder might fit into this category.

    You obviously have 2 forms of mass you can gain while bulking. Fat can be quickly added by consuming fat in a caloric surplus. But fat is not a great mass to add no matter how much you want to add size and is usually inevitable when adding muscle (ie bulking). Even if you are regaining muscle you already had it is a pretty slow process. A lean bulk usually aims for an average weight increase of 250g per week, while a regular bulk is more in the range of 500g or 1lb per week. If you’re bulking any faster than this you will be putting on a lot more fat and minimal extra lean mass.

    Carbs do raise your metabolism more than fats in a surplus and you may have a metabolism that is quick to adapt to a surplus or deficit. If you are struggling to eat enough to maintain a surplus then you need to add more dense calorie sources. Milk is one of the most anabolic foods out there, it’s sole purpose is to take a small calf and develop all the bones and muscle to turn it into a small beast capable of chewing and digesting grass (a substance pretty devoid of energy).

    You struggle to digest milk though right? Have you looked for unpasteurised sources to Introduce the enzymes and bacteria to help digest it?
     
  4. Luckytype

    Luckytype Member

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    Former powershoving eater checking in.

    The biggest thin for those that are pretty adherant to the whole peat idea is just makinh sure your foods(whether daily or cheat foods) arent gut irritants and contain whole food ingredients. Ice cream is totally fine as long as its real ingredients and not gums and garbage.

    I made the best gains on saturated fats and carbs. When building a building, labor and insurance is often a major budget eater, the requires materials are simple and finite.

    And if youre gyming and trying to have a good gaining cycle, your workouts should be productive. All the food in the world wont change your body for the better if the muscle stimulation isnt appropriate
     
  5. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

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    Many have allergies to extra-virgin coconut oil, and potatoes have superior nutritional value compared to bananas.
     
  6. Vinero

    Vinero Member

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    Best way to bulk up without gaining to much fat is eating high-starch + high protein. Obviously keep Peats rules in mind like not fearing Sugar and avoiding PUFA.
    White rice with chicken breast is a typical bodybuilding meal to gain muscle, lose fat.
    Some quotes of the legendary Serge Nubret:
    -
    Normally I do 75 min abd every day so I don't have to diet, I hate to diet, or cut my salt. I never did.

    - Do you really think that I will eat a lot of protein powder and then a lot of meat too? Protein powder is made for people who cannot eat a lot of meat. So I never use protein powder, but I use to eat about 3/4 kg of horse meat every day

    - Just a lot of red meat and some beans and rice and 4/5 hours of training
    - I said about it already too. I don't want to repeat myself over and over. I said that I eat when my body ask to. So how can I tell you hour after hour what I am eating, I am a BB of the passed, not those where everything is calculated as they don't exist as a person, but as a machine. I said too that I eat red meat and beans and rice. So if you want to know more how you should eat and when, please read FLEX.

    - I never used supplements. I eat when my body ask me to.

    - I never eat oatmeal in my life, I never eat breakfast as I was doing leg and abs every morning. But I eat a lot in the evening so I had enough calories to train during the morning. Not to many hours of rest at night, I mean sleep but just rest and relax.

    - With my training you don't need to diet. You need to eat a lot of natural food like red meat, chicken, rice, lentils, beans......a little bit less calories that you spend a day. I never diet in my life, never stop taking salt or whatever, I knew that I was spending about 4 to 5000 calories a day so I was eating about 3700 or 4700 calories a day that all. Dieting had put you in bad moon. I never have to loose more than 7 kg when I was competing.

    - Myself I used to eat as much I could, but only twice a day. And really good food, try to eat 2 kg of lean meat a day and some rice, lentil, no sweet things and no fat at all. and follow my training.

    - Look at the cows they eat all the day. Now look at the panthers they eat once a day, and which one look in better shape.
    It is not the quantity you eat or the quantity of time which make the champion, but the quality and not whatever the quantity of time you eat, my body is cleaver enough to know when I should eat, he let me know by sending signals. HE TELL ME SERGE YOU HAVE TO EAT. Then I believe in my body, I listen to him I EAT, My body does not listen to any article or scientist to tell him when to eat. You think that science knows more about your body that your body itself?...Listen to yourself before to listen to others.
    I eat so much in one meal that I don�t need to eat 6/8 times a day, I leave that to those who don't have a big appetite.

    -Come to eat with me, I am sure that you will not able to eat 3 times a day, I prove that in California with some friend and now they know what that mean eating. I used to have contest eating with some friends of my gym, the one who eat less pay the food for 1O peoples next time. I was always the winner, because I did not want to cook for those big 10 body builders. We weigh ourself before and after eating, generally my weight was up of 10 to 12 pounds more. So go to eat 2 or 3 hours after.
     
  7. OP
    vulture

    vulture Member

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    Thanks for info.

    I'm currently thinking on:
    - 4 or 5 meals
    - a glass of a easy to drink brew containing: over-cooked pasta or rice, whey/casein (or both), eggs, sugar, lactose-free milk and any ingredient that gives a taste (even icecream)

    I'm not into the bodybuilding clean bulk, I'm into the gaining back weight agenda and strongman fan. I'd like to lift heavy, being strong, I don't mind a bit of fat in my belly if I have a few extra pounds of muscle and less stressful feeding.
    I'm even thinking about microdosing testosterone and DHT, hoping it wont aromatize and will aid growth. I don't get into anabolic steroids stuff just because AFAIK it's not safe enought and it might be a pain in the *** to avoid aromatization and secondary effects.
     
  8. OP
    vulture

    vulture Member

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    BTW, Chicken is REALLY cheap in my rat's new cage, is half the price of beef, one of the cheapests proteins to eat. I have read all the aminos stuff Peat said, don't eat chicken it's not good, whatever...but I'm really wondering: wouldn't it be good to eat skinless chicken in order to have a cheap caloric surplus instead of just eating less calories just to avoid all the tryptophan or whatever it is? I mean, I'm skinny AF, I think it might be way more relevant to gain weight...
     
  9. Luckytype

    Luckytype Member

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    How many calories are you actually eating in a week?

    And how old are you
     
  10. raypeatclips

    raypeatclips Member

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    Don't start taking testosterone and dnt before you've sorted your diet out. Peat said an important quote found in his "ray peat takes testosterone" thread I'm struggling to find as I'm on my phone. He said testosterone is good after everything else is in place and mentioned about 8 things before testosterone. I predicted people would start taking testosterone now because peat does and ignore the whole rest of the quote. I'll post it when I'm on laptop if nobody else links it.

    For a diet to become big, gain weight and hit the gym, I'd do a pretty standard diet but avoiding PUFA. Eat big every meal, high calories, high protein, high saturated fat high carbs. Good quality bread toasted with bacon, eggs, juice, pancakes, maple syrup, fruit. Fatty steaks for later in the day, potatoes, cheese, gravy. Big hot meals of good quality food. I feel pumped thinking about it.
     
  11. OP
    vulture

    vulture Member

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    I usually have: 2 pancakes 3 eggs in butter, 2 apples (or other fruits), 100-150 g pasta or rice and 150-200 g "peaty meat" (lol), 2 more pancakes, 150 g cheese, some sugar, gelatine, caffein along the day. I need to boost caloric intake, but I can't boost that without breaing "peaty rules", it's either eating more chicken and eggs, or eating like a poor Peat fan LOL
    Not eating bread or commercial cereals (to avoid PUFA and maybe some soy from vegetable oil), makes my diet also a trouble and monotonous. Haagen-dasz icecream? Haven't seen that here since I came...also is way more expensive that full of unpeaty-stuff icecream...
     
  12. Luckytype

    Luckytype Member

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    How many calories is this roughly totaling?

    And with ice cream, try to find something thats of balance with normal ingredients and cost. A little here and there wont kill you.
     
  13. Glassy

    Glassy Member

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    No milk? Have you heard of GOMAD?
     
  14. OP
    vulture

    vulture Member

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    I calculated about 2.2 kcals a day
    Crappy...it seems like maintenance
     
  15. OP
    vulture

    vulture Member

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    Actually, when I weighted 83 kg I got about 11 kg in less than 2 months. What did I do?
    Something similar to GOMAD, it was a program based on breathing squats 20 rep, just 1 set. Drinking 2 liters of milk, about 5 eggs, whey, 5 to 6 big meals...I even puked once, I was eating really a lot, but I've never seen those gains...but I couldn't mentally handle the whole 2 months program...I got mentally broken about 5 or 6 weeks after starting. I was having a real stressful life outside of the gym.
    I'm hoping to get more money in another job and maybe I could try such a feat again...but now I know more Peaty stuff, I know I got to keep stress down, I can meditate, use some vitamins, minerals, DHT and other nice stuff I didn't knew at the time.
     
  16. Luckytype

    Luckytype Member

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    Honestly i thought it would be lower, a good starting point.

    In a natural, healthy, non weight trained state i weigh maybe 145-160 and for me personally it took years of consistent caloric intake and the appropriate gym training to put on muscle. All the men in my family are 6 feet tall or more and generally weigh 165 so we definitely dont have muscular genetics from the get go.

    Im not sure what you have access to but adding in things like fruit juice, cream in your coffee, honey, sugar dense fruit like dates will help add a few hundred calories in a day. I carry them with me in my lunch container and snack as i want.

    As mentioned too, nutrition is important here and as such things like potatoes are more dense in that regard. Well cooked, along with some rice here and there will allow you to feed more easily so you can get more calories in.

    Also, eggs arent THAT bad, peaters here just want the pufa to be offset with vitE and sat fats. Its too nutritionally dense IMHO to eliminate completely.

    As a reference point I used to eat and live like Serge Nubret, one of the greatest of all time. For me i was much healthier, but without anabolic assistance the volume he was doing(and i did) would be dangerous to maintain for an extended period unless luck was in your favor and life lined things up perfectly
     
  17. Glassy

    Glassy Member

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    Just be mindful that true dry muscle gains takes a long time to add up but it’s simply a matter of growing more of it than you break down. Fat and water retention (from high estrogen) make gains appear larger than what they actually are. Persistence and consistency is what builds big muscles. It’s not any single meal or workout that affects this but the cumulative effects over time.

    I mention the milk because it’s packed with calories (if not skimmed), pretty anabolic and easy to consume (being a liquid). It’s normally not ideal because it tends to add fat but you don’t seem as concerned about this.
     
  18. Vinero

    Vinero Member

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    Dont worry about chicken, bodybuilders eat chicken breasts everyday. I eat it too sometimes and haven't had any bad effects. It's a great protein source to grow/get big.
     
  19. Luckytype

    Luckytype Member

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    Not to mention even the appropriate muscular stimulation with increase intramuscular storage of fuels bound to water. So the feeling, increased hardness and awareness of the muscle groups likely come before any appreciable tissue increases first

    Adding true muscular tissue is usually some of the last things to take place. The body wants to kinda improve efficiency of its capacity forst before adding muscular tissue because of the metabolic costs.

    Consistency is absolutely number one thing with proper stimulation. Especially for the slender hard gaining type
     
  20. Hans

    Hans Member

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    Absolutely false. Protein is responsible for buidling muscle and not carbs or fats. Carbs and fat are only an energy source, with fat being more androgenic than carbs.
    White rice and chicken breast is the worse choice as they have the least nutrients.
    As for Serge Nubret, he was using steroids like vitamins. That's the only way he was able to train like he did, just like all the other steroid users did and still do. He said he didn't diet, but still ate in a caloric deficit when he had to. Sounds like dieting to me. Giving advise not to diet for a competition is absolutely ridiculous.
    LOL, that's probably why every guy looks just like him who doesn't use supplements.
    Most ridiculous comparison ever, a cow and a panther have absolutely nothing in common. That's like comparing a bird to a dog.
    Serge overate in gross amounts which is very stressful to the body, and he also ate foods (beans, lentils) which are irritating to the gut. Only steroid junkies who use a huge amount of steroids can follow his advise and make such gains. It would be a health wrecker for someone natural, or even someone who uses healthy (not abusive) amounts of pro-hormones, to follow that kind of advise.

    The way strongmen ate in the past was lots of milk, eggs, and some other sources of protein and carbs (such as beef and potatoes), but the majority was from raw milk and eggs. Milk and eggs are the most anabolic food there is. No wonder bodybuilders in the past ate 2 dozen eggs a day.
    There's even a documented case of a man who ate 30 eggs a day for about 15 years. He was 88 years old at the time, and had no health issues whatsoever.
    Free range organic eggs and milk are very healthy. The chicken you buy at your local store are filled with hormones/estrogen/antibiotics and you will actually just be poisoning yourself by eating it.

    My advise would be to keep your training sessions under 1 hour daily and train a muscle group once or twice a week if strength is desired. More volume and you will only fatigue your CNS too fast and gains will stall rapidly. Strength has more to do with your nervous system than with muscle size.
     
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