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Ants Do Not Age Due To Living In Environment With High Co2

Discussion in 'Altitude, Bag Breathing, CO2, Light, Weather' started by haidut, Feb 12, 2016.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Ray has written about this theory that the naked mole rat is a remarkably resilient creature that never gets cancer due to living in environment of very high levels of CO2. Coincindentally (or not), the naked mole rat is the only rodent that lives in colonies just like ants do.
    Anyways, this study shows that ants do not age like humans and one of the guess is that this is due to the low oxygen levels in the environment they live in. It is my guess that CO2 is high just as in the case of the naked mole rat.

    Ants show no sign of aging (Wired UK)

    "...The study, published in the Proceedings of the Royal Society, found that minor workers of the ant Pheidole dentata, which live for up to 140 days in a laboratory environment, showed absolutely no signs of ageing before they expired. "

    "...If you're thinking we've unlocked the secrets to eternal life, bad news: we haven't. The study suggests that advanced social organisation may make ant brains more efficient or resilient, that worker ants' lack of reproduction and low oxygen environment contributed to their health."

    There are "higher" species that also do NOT age. Bonobos, who happen to be the closest human relative, also do not age and that is due to the high levels of thyroid hormone they maintain their whole lives.
    Bonobos Do Not Age Due To High Thyroid Hormone | Ray Peat Forum
     
  2. tara

    tara Member

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    What did they die of?
     
  3. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Here is one study by that author above. I am not sure if it is the latest one so if someone finds a more recent one please share:
    Worker senescence and the sociobiology of aging in ants

    As far as I can see the ants die simply as a function of the colony size. In other words, entirely determined by their surroundings. I don't know if they are somehow commanded to commit suicide to favor the colony, but the study hints that no other factor besides colony size has an impact on their lifespan.
    Btw, the study above does mention the naked mole rat as another good example of non-aging. I had not seen the study before posting my thread so I was entirely guessing about the parallels between the ants and the naked mole rats. The fact that the author also thought about that gives me some solace that I am not completely delusional:) Strikingly, the lack of aging and disease of the naked mole rats and their subsequent sudden death also appear to be socially driven. If I were a smart man, and I am not, I would venture a guess that may be humans age and die because society expects them to and the environment is engineered to greatly facilitate that expectation. There are well-known isolated (and thus uncontrolled) examples of ascetics living much longer than the general population after moving to live a more secluded life in the mountains, usually surrounded by other like-minded people.
    Fascinating, to say the least!

    "...Euociality impacts longevity in naked mole rats (Lacey and Sherman 1991): individuals have lifespans of up to 30 years, ~9 times longer than those of comparably sized rodents (Buffenstein 2008). Naked mole rats appear to show negligible senescence, and lack several physiological hallmarks of aging (Buffenstein 2008; Lewis et al. 2012). How can evolutionary and mechanistic theories of aging be applied to eusocial species, and conversely, how do the life histories of these social groups influence our understanding of senescence? Amdam and Page (2005) note that no major theory of aging was developed in respect to eusociality, or in particular, the evolutionary ecology of ants."
     
  4. jb116

    jb116 Member

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    9 year old with a magnifying glass and hot sun??

    :p
     
  5. TheHound

    TheHound Member

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    I remember hearing the same thing a number of years ago but I don't remember from where. that we age and die at a certain age because we believe that were only supposed to live to that age
     
  6. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

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  7. raypeatclips

    raypeatclips Member

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    I first read you say this 3 days ago and not stopped thinking about it ever since. Fascinating.
     
  8. paymanz

    paymanz Member

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    Maybe their queen's lifespan is how long workers also can live if colony size don't push them to die at around 120 days.
     
  9. nikolabeacon

    nikolabeacon Member

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    In a bee colony worker bees live only 35 days on average when they are foraging for nectar and pollen. (Mart-Sep)But winter bees can live up to 200 or more days because of much higher concentrations of co2 which is regulated by bees in winter bee cluster .( Sep-Mart)
     
  10. SQu

    SQu Member

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    I have come to suspect that society hastens death to keep a flow of cheap young strong workers creating more wealth for the rich, and getting rid of them as they age rather than carrying the cost of their lowered productivity. The young get time-released accelerated-aging food and health advice, the old get shuffled off fast in hospitals and old age homes. Looking after my own aging parents I think underfeeding and lowered appetite is a common and hidden method that goes largely unrecognized. I seem to be the only daughter around who is always getting my dad to weigh himself and aiming to regain lost weight.
    So the adage that you're the only one who cares about your own health is true from this perspective too. And it becomes political to defy society in this way. Explains a few things, too. Like the irrationality of the medical system.
    Now, where's the closest mountain retreat??!
     
  11. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    So, now you know why there was such a massive outcry when a study came out a few years ago saying death from aging/disease is fully preventable. That study ( I think done by Caltech) estimated that people would live on average to 450-500 years in great health and eventually die due to accidents since 400-500 years is long enough time-frame for something like car or plane crash to kill most people. Every politician that I can think of issued a statement that nothing good would come from conquering disease and aging. And amazingly, nobody made the connection between these statements and the fact that no pharma company has produced a true disease cure over the last 30 years. It is patently obvious that pretty much all modern societies depend (ironically) on death for their survival. A notable exception is that new drug for hepatitis C, but the only reason it saw the light of day was because the rate of Hep C in young people is very low and the only people with the disease are Boomers. So, if you want to make a buck off of those people you'd better hurry up and sell the this drug before they die because the younger people do not have this disease any more.
     
  12. Liubo

    Liubo Member

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    Lol you know it!
     
  13. Regina

    Regina Member

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    :nailbiting: phew
     
  14. BigYellowLemon

    BigYellowLemon Member

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    I wonder what the RQ for naked mole rats is.

    And the diet of both naked mole rats and ants.
     
  15. SQu

    SQu Member

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    I've known several people in late stage cancer given the'opportunity' to take an'experimental' treatment that costs them approx $50 000 a month. The person is dying anyway and it's 'experimental' so no surprise when it doesn't work, and as to why it costs so much, well, there is only a limited time to make as much money as possible out of someone who's desperate and whose family will do anything not to lose them, and is not asking too many awkward questions like this.
     
  16. nikolabeacon

    nikolabeacon Member

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    Ok humans may age because society expects it and because we are somehow programed from young ages to believe in certain lenght of life.

    But I do think that correct explanation for this is a lack of sense of purpose and motivation for some things and life in general in an individual. When an organism have a strong desire for something and or for survival or for a bright vision and better future in some hard situations energy flow through the body is powerfull and capablle of overcoming metabolic burdens. Think about survivers from holocaust and war veterans . They very often live to an old age. They somehow sensed the deeper meaning and built a very strong desire for life and simple things. So it is not the thing that things should flow always smoothly and without some kind of struggling and changes. It somehow makes you bored( no adventures).
     
  17. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I agree, life is much healthier with a sense of purpose. When I said the environment is engineered to facilitate death I also meant the removal of sense of purpose, which modern society does pretty much on purpose. The idea of not caring about anything other than yourself is deeply ingrained and promoted from very early childhood in many/most modern societies.
     
  18. nikolabeacon

    nikolabeacon Member

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    I understood your explanation fully. I see humanity as a synergetic commune of free individuals which build up knowledge and wealth over some periods. But problem is appearing when individuals start to think about too much self perfection , precise determinism, imortality...generaly Nietzschean digitalized approach to Ubermensch wich is very popular in society and science( west especially and other too much technic driven countries).Many young people are led by this illusion. And when you strive to that and start to come to some opposing conclusion in reality you have many possibilities for disappointments and fear in life which then leads to lack of purpose, stress, stop of adventures, meaning, and eventually madnesss as in the case of Nietzsche.
     
  19. Liubo

    Liubo Member

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    "The weariness of the cell is the vigour of the organism. Do you die when you cut your fingernails?" - 1984 (Orwell)
     
  20. Atman

    Atman Member

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    This makes you question whether the description in Genesis could possibly be true. :eek:
    I always wondered why they would have chosen such unbelievable long lifespans, when we always get told that people in the past had much lower life expectancies.

    "3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. 4 After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 5 Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.

    6 When Seth had lived 105 years, he became the fatherb]">[b] of Enosh. 7 After he became the father of Enosh, Seth lived 807 years and had other sons and daughters. 8 Altogether, Seth lived a total of 912 years, and then he died.

    9 When Enosh had lived 90 years, he became the father of Kenan. 10 After he became the father of Kenan, Enosh lived 815 years and had other sons and daughters. 11 Altogether, Enosh lived a total of 905 years, and then he died.

    12 When Kenan had lived 70 years, he became the father of Mahalalel. 13 After he became the father of Mahalalel, Kenan lived 840 years and had other sons and daughters. 14 Altogether, Kenan lived a total of 910 years, and then he died.

    15 When Mahalalel had lived 65 years, he became the father of Jared. 16 After he became the father of Jared, Mahalalel lived 830 years and had other sons and daughters. 17 Altogether, Mahalalel lived a total of 895 years, and then he died.

    18 When Jared had lived 162 years, he became the father of Enoch. 19 After he became the father of Enoch, Jared lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 20 Altogether, Jared lived a total of 962 years, and then he died."
     
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