Ants Do Not Age Due To Living In Environment With High Co2

haidut

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
18,027
Location
USA / Europe
Ray has written about this theory that the naked mole rat is a remarkably resilient creature that never gets cancer due to living in environment of very high levels of CO2. Coincindentally (or not), the naked mole rat is the only rodent that lives in colonies just like ants do.
Anyways, this study shows that ants do not age like humans and one of the guess is that this is due to the low oxygen levels in the environment they live in. It is my guess that CO2 is high just as in the case of the naked mole rat.

Ants show no sign of aging (Wired UK)

"...The study, published in the Proceedings of the Royal Society, found that minor workers of the ant Pheidole dentata, which live for up to 140 days in a laboratory environment, showed absolutely no signs of ageing before they expired. "

"...If you're thinking we've unlocked the secrets to eternal life, bad news: we haven't. The study suggests that advanced social organisation may make ant brains more efficient or resilient, that worker ants' lack of reproduction and low oxygen environment contributed to their health."

There are "higher" species that also do NOT age. Bonobos, who happen to be the closest human relative, also do not age and that is due to the high levels of thyroid hormone they maintain their whole lives.
Bonobos Do Not Age Due To High Thyroid Hormone | Ray Peat Forum
 
Last edited:

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,369
What did they die of?
 

haidut

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
18,027
Location
USA / Europe
What did they die of?

Here is one study by that author above. I am not sure if it is the latest one so if someone finds a more recent one please share:
Worker senescence and the sociobiology of aging in ants

As far as I can see the ants die simply as a function of the colony size. In other words, entirely determined by their surroundings. I don't know if they are somehow commanded to commit suicide to favor the colony, but the study hints that no other factor besides colony size has an impact on their lifespan.
Btw, the study above does mention the naked mole rat as another good example of non-aging. I had not seen the study before posting my thread so I was entirely guessing about the parallels between the ants and the naked mole rats. The fact that the author also thought about that gives me some solace that I am not completely delusional:) Strikingly, the lack of aging and disease of the naked mole rats and their subsequent sudden death also appear to be socially driven. If I were a smart man, and I am not, I would venture a guess that may be humans age and die because society expects them to and the environment is engineered to greatly facilitate that expectation. There are well-known isolated (and thus uncontrolled) examples of ascetics living much longer than the general population after moving to live a more secluded life in the mountains, usually surrounded by other like-minded people.
Fascinating, to say the least!

"...Euociality impacts longevity in naked mole rats (Lacey and Sherman 1991): individuals have lifespans of up to 30 years, ~9 times longer than those of comparably sized rodents (Buffenstein 2008). Naked mole rats appear to show negligible senescence, and lack several physiological hallmarks of aging (Buffenstein 2008; Lewis et al. 2012). How can evolutionary and mechanistic theories of aging be applied to eusocial species, and conversely, how do the life histories of these social groups influence our understanding of senescence? Amdam and Page (2005) note that no major theory of aging was developed in respect to eusociality, or in particular, the evolutionary ecology of ants."
 
Last edited:

TheHound

Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
501
venture a guess that may humans age and die because society expects them to and the environment is engineered to greatly facilitate that expectation.

I remember hearing the same thing a number of years ago but I don't remember from where. that we age and die at a certain age because we believe that were only supposed to live to that age
 

paymanz

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
2,693
Maybe their queen's lifespan is how long workers also can live if colony size don't push them to die at around 120 days.
 

nikolabeacon

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Messages
326
In a bee colony worker bees live only 35 days on average when they are foraging for nectar and pollen. (Mart-Sep)But winter bees can live up to 200 or more days because of much higher concentrations of co2 which is regulated by bees in winter bee cluster .( Sep-Mart)
 

SQu

Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
1,306
, I would venture a guess that may be humans age and die because society expects them to and the environment is engineered to greatly facilitate that expectation.
I have come to suspect that society hastens death to keep a flow of cheap young strong workers creating more wealth for the rich, and getting rid of them as they age rather than carrying the cost of their lowered productivity. The young get time-released accelerated-aging food and health advice, the old get shuffled off fast in hospitals and old age homes. Looking after my own aging parents I think underfeeding and lowered appetite is a common and hidden method that goes largely unrecognized. I seem to be the only daughter around who is always getting my dad to weigh himself and aiming to regain lost weight.
So the adage that you're the only one who cares about your own health is true from this perspective too. And it becomes political to defy society in this way. Explains a few things, too. Like the irrationality of the medical system.
Now, where's the closest mountain retreat??!
 

haidut

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
18,027
Location
USA / Europe
I have come to suspect that society hastens death to keep a flow of cheap young strong workers creating more wealth for the rich, and getting rid of them as they age rather than carrying the cost of their lowered productivity. The young get time-released accelerated-aging food and health advice, the old get shuffled off fast in hospitals and old age homes. Looking after my own aging parents I think underfeeding and lowered appetite is a common and hidden method that goes largely unrecognized. I seem to be the only daughter around who is always getting my dad to weigh himself and aiming to regain lost weight.
So the adage that you're the only one who cares about your own health is true from this perspective too. And it becomes political to defy society in this way. Explains a few things, too. Like the irrationality of the medical system.
Now, where's the closest mountain retreat??!

So, now you know why there was such a massive outcry when a study came out a few years ago saying death from aging/disease is fully preventable. That study ( I think done by Caltech) estimated that people would live on average to 450-500 years in great health and eventually die due to accidents since 400-500 years is long enough time-frame for something like car or plane crash to kill most people. Every politician that I can think of issued a statement that nothing good would come from conquering disease and aging. And amazingly, nobody made the connection between these statements and the fact that no pharma company has produced a true disease cure over the last 30 years. It is patently obvious that pretty much all modern societies depend (ironically) on death for their survival. A notable exception is that new drug for hepatitis C, but the only reason it saw the light of day was because the rate of Hep C in young people is very low and the only people with the disease are Boomers. So, if you want to make a buck off of those people you'd better hurry up and sell the this drug before they die because the younger people do not have this disease any more.
 

Regina

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Messages
3,756
Location
Chicago
So, now you know why there was such a massive outcry when a study came out a few years ago saying death from aging/disease is fully preventable. That study ( I think done by Caltech) estimated that people would live on average to 450-500 years in great health and eventually die due to accidents since 400-500 years is long enough time-frame for something like car or plane crash to kill most people. Every politician that I can think of issued a statement that nothing good would come from conquering disease and aging. And amazingly, nobody made the connection between these statements and the fact that no pharma company has produced a true disease cure over the last 30 years. It is patently obvious that pretty much all modern societies depend (ironically) on death for their survival. A notable exception is that new drug for hepatitis C, but the only reason it saw the light of day was because the rate of Hep C in young people is very low and the only people with the disease are Boomers. So, if you want to make a buck off of those people you'd better hurry up and sell the this drug before they die because the younger people do not have this disease any more.
:nailbiting: phew
 

SQu

Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
1,306
So, if you want to make a buck off of those people you'd better hurry up and sell the this drug before they die
I've known several people in late stage cancer given the'opportunity' to take an'experimental' treatment that costs them approx $50 000 a month. The person is dying anyway and it's 'experimental' so no surprise when it doesn't work, and as to why it costs so much, well, there is only a limited time to make as much money as possible out of someone who's desperate and whose family will do anything not to lose them, and is not asking too many awkward questions like this.
 

nikolabeacon

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Messages
326
Ok humans may age because society expects it and because we are somehow programed from young ages to believe in certain lenght of life.

But I do think that correct explanation for this is a lack of sense of purpose and motivation for some things and life in general in an individual. When an organism have a strong desire for something and or for survival or for a bright vision and better future in some hard situations energy flow through the body is powerfull and capablle of overcoming metabolic burdens. Think about survivers from holocaust and war veterans . They very often live to an old age. They somehow sensed the deeper meaning and built a very strong desire for life and simple things. So it is not the thing that things should flow always smoothly and without some kind of struggling and changes. It somehow makes you bored( no adventures).
 

haidut

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
18,027
Location
USA / Europe
Ok humans may age because society expects it and because we are somehow programed from young ages to believe in certain lenght of life.

But I do think that correct explanation for this is a lack of sense of purpose and motivation for some things and life in general in an individual. When an organism have a strong desire for something and or for survival or for a bright vision and better future in some hard situations energy flow through the body is powerfull and capablle of overcoming metabolic burdens. Think about survivers from holocaust and war veterans . They very often live to an old age. They somehow sensed the deeper meaning and built a very strong desire for life and simple things. So it is not the thing that things should flow always smoothly and without some kind of struggling and changes. It somehow makes you bored( no adventures).

I agree, life is much healthier with a sense of purpose. When I said the environment is engineered to facilitate death I also meant the removal of sense of purpose, which modern society does pretty much on purpose. The idea of not caring about anything other than yourself is deeply ingrained and promoted from very early childhood in many/most modern societies.
 

nikolabeacon

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Messages
326
I agree, life is much healthier with a sense of purpose. When I said the environment is engineered to facilitate death I also meant the removal of sense of purpose, which modern society does pretty much on purpose. The idea of not caring about anything other than yourself is deeply ingrained and promoted from very early childhood in many/most modern societies.
I understood your explanation fully. I see humanity as a synergetic commune of free individuals which build up knowledge and wealth over some periods. But problem is appearing when individuals start to think about too much self perfection , precise determinism, imortality...generaly Nietzschean digitalized approach to Ubermensch wich is very popular in society and science( west especially and other too much technic driven countries).Many young people are led by this illusion. And when you strive to that and start to come to some opposing conclusion in reality you have many possibilities for disappointments and fear in life which then leads to lack of purpose, stress, stop of adventures, meaning, and eventually madnesss as in the case of Nietzsche.
 

Luann

Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
1,435
"The weariness of the cell is the vigour of the organism. Do you die when you cut your fingernails?" - 1984 (Orwell)
 

Atman

Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
304
So, now you know why there was such a massive outcry when a study came out a few years ago saying death from aging/disease is fully preventable. That study ( I think done by Caltech) estimated that people would live on average to 450-500 years in great health and eventually die due to accidents since 400-500 years is long enough time-frame for something like car or plane crash to kill most people. Every politician that I can think of issued a statement that nothing good would come from conquering disease and aging. And amazingly, nobody made the connection between these statements and the fact that no pharma company has produced a true disease cure over the last 30 years. It is patently obvious that pretty much all modern societies depend (ironically) on death for their survival. A notable exception is that new drug for hepatitis C, but the only reason it saw the light of day was because the rate of Hep C in young people is very low and the only people with the disease are Boomers. So, if you want to make a buck off of those people you'd better hurry up and sell the this drug before they die because the younger people do not have this disease any more.

This makes you question whether the description in Genesis could possibly be true. :eek:
I always wondered why they would have chosen such unbelievable long lifespans, when we always get told that people in the past had much lower life expectancies.

"3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. 4 After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 5 Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.

6 When Seth had lived 105 years, he became the fatherb]">[b] of Enosh. 7 After he became the father of Enosh, Seth lived 807 years and had other sons and daughters. 8 Altogether, Seth lived a total of 912 years, and then he died.

9 When Enosh had lived 90 years, he became the father of Kenan. 10 After he became the father of Kenan, Enosh lived 815 years and had other sons and daughters. 11 Altogether, Enosh lived a total of 905 years, and then he died.

12 When Kenan had lived 70 years, he became the father of Mahalalel. 13 After he became the father of Mahalalel, Kenan lived 840 years and had other sons and daughters. 14 Altogether, Kenan lived a total of 910 years, and then he died.

15 When Mahalalel had lived 65 years, he became the father of Jared. 16 After he became the father of Jared, Mahalalel lived 830 years and had other sons and daughters. 17 Altogether, Mahalalel lived a total of 895 years, and then he died.

18 When Jared had lived 162 years, he became the father of Enoch. 19 After he became the father of Enoch, Jared lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 20 Altogether, Jared lived a total of 962 years, and then he died."
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
JamesGatz The Real Age of Earth - Just how accurate is Radiometric Dating ? Miscellaneous 14
J The WHO website says covid vaccines are safe for most people OVER THE AGE OF 18 Ask For Help or Advice 0
Rasaari Metabolism peaks at age one, tanks at 60 Articles & Scientific Studies 2
miraddo Men store up to 4.6 times more Iron than age-matched women Scientific Studies 2
LLight Selecting your food might make you (flies) age faster Discussing Dietary Models 32
B Face age Health 112
GorillaHead Total exchangeable potassium decreases as we age! Diet 4
Sefton10 Stone Age humans were Hypercarnivores Diet, Recipes 8
M Macular Degeneration in young age - pls help Ask For Help or Advice 49
Mauritio Drug Reverses Age-Related Mental Decline Within Days Articles & Scientific Studies 11
F Small Molecule Cognitive Enhancer Reverses Age-Related Memory Decline In Mice Scientific Studies 1
Quelsatron Sweden May Make Preschool Obligatory From The Age Of Two Breaking News 0
TheSir At What Age Do Men Get 'baby Fever'? Ask For Help or Advice 11
L Younging1 - Age Reversal Is Real Miscellaneous Health Discussions 16
B Marxism And The New Age Progressive Movements Political Talk, Alternative World Theories 198
meatbag Declining Age Of Puberty Onset Across The Globe Children 2
GorillaHead What Is The Cause Of Dual Bulging Temple Veins At An Early Age ? Skin 3
J Is It Possible To Grow Bone Structure At The Age Of 21? Ask For Help or Advice 14
Mito Severe Infections Of COVID-19 In Millennial Age Group Articles & Scientific Studies 5
Jamesu Self Help In The Age Of Neo-liberalism Health 68
yerrag Why Do We Accept Age As The Defining Factor For Metabolic Rate? Metabolism 3
G Human Age Reversed By 2.5 Years By Combo Of Metformin, DHEA And GH Scientific Studies 54
P Does Marijuana Smoking Age Skin? Skin 14
haidut Niacinamide May Restore Female Fertility In Old Age Scientific Studies 17
haidut While Estradiol Falls, Estrone Rises With Age And Is Much More Relevant For Estrogen-driven Diseases Scientific Studies 6
ecstatichamster The Cure To Old Age - Dr. Peat September 1995 Science 122
M How Toilet No2's Change As We Age Health 6
haidut The Coming Ice Age Scientific Studies 11
haidut Deficiency Of Vitamin K Involved In Age-related Disability / Frailty Scientific Studies 1
M Supplements By Age? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 3
haidut Fertility Depends On Metabollism (ATP), Not Age Scientific Studies 17
jzeno Luke Perry, Of '90210' Fame, Dead At Age 52--Died Of Result Of Massive Stroke Breaking News 2
GAF New-drug-hopes-reversing-memory-loss-old-age-depression-schizophrenia-alzheimers Alzheimer's 3
Captain_Coconut True Or False? Pregnenolone Does Not Decrease With Age Hormones 3
X Taking DHEA At The Age Of 17. Is It Normal? DHEA 3
L Can Young Men (age Between 18-30) Benefit From Taking Pregnenolone, If Their Metabolism Is Good? Pregnenolone 44
L Preg, Prog, DHEA Skincare/anti-age Body Care 8
Hugh Johnson Turpentine To De-age The Body Health 1
ecstatichamster Dr. Peat Is Right About Blood Pressure Higher = Better As People Age Heart, Heart Rate, Blood Pressure 10
9 Ray Peat Has Grey Hair, No Facial Hair, Black Teeth And Age Pigments Rant or Rave 102
x-ray peat Age Related Macular Degeneration Scientific Studies 5
A Age And Testosterone Levels Hormones 0
haidut Naked Mole Rats Do Not Age Scientific Studies 56
Mito High-intensity Interval Training Improved Age-related Decline In Muscle Mitochondria Exercise 4
7 Controversial Question: How To Age Myself Faster? Ask For Help or Advice 53
K Testosterone Declines With Age, Your Opinion Hormones 8
B New Jersey Raises Minimum Smoking Age To 21 Political Talk, Alternative World Theories 2
haidut Grey Hair May Be A Biomarker For CVD (and Biological Age) In Men Scientific Studies 25
L Daily-dose-of-cannabis-extract-could-reverse-brains-decline-in-old-age Scientific Studies 4
D Thoughts On Being Unhealthy At A Young Age Rant or Rave 12

Similar threads

Top