haidut

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Many forum users are familiar with the naked mole rat. Peat has mentioned them a few times and we have a few other posts about them on the forum. They are highly resistant to cancer, and while the mainstream medical view is that this is due to their special genes the much more likely explanation is the high CO2 levels they are exposed to their whole lives. In addition, we have evidence from other species like bonobos and ants that implicate high metabolism and high CO2 as the cardinal protective mechanisms against the deterioration of aging.
Bonobos Do Not Age Due To High Thyroid Hormone
Ants Do Not Age Due To Living In Environment With High Co2
Carbonic Anhydrase Is A Key Driver Of Aging; Inhibiting It Is Beneficial

This new study below shows that naked mole rats, just like ants and bonobos, do not really age (deteriorate) with the passage of time. Given the role of metabolism in the resistance to aging in other species like bonobos and ants, I think the explanation for this finding is clear and it should be very easy to test. But when I emailed last year one of the eminent scientists working with naked mole rats I got a response that basically said "No way in hell I am going to check metabolism. I got 3 grants from NIH decoding naked mole rat genome so I have no time for this metabolic nonsense".

Naked mole-rat mortality rates defy Gompertzian laws by not increasing with age | eLife
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/01/naked-mole-rats-defy-biological-law-aging
"...The first study to analyze the life histories of thousands of naked mole rats has found that their risk of death doesn't go up as they grow older, as it does for every other known mammalian species. Although some scientists caution against any sweeping conclusions, many say the new data are important and striking. “This is remarkably low mortality,” says Caleb Finch, a biogerontologist at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles who was not involved in the new study. "At advanced ages, their mortality rate remains lower than any other mammal that has been documented.”

"...What she found was astonishing, says Buffenstein, who works at the longevity-focused Google biotech spinoff Calico in San Francisco, California: Naked mole rats seem to flout the Gompertz law, a mathematical equation that describes aging. In 1825, British mathematician Benjamin Gompertz found that the risk of dying rises exponentially with age; in humans, for instance, it doubles roughly every 8 years after the age of 30. The law applies to all mammals after adulthood, says Joao Pedro De Magalhaes, a gerontologist at the University of Liverpool in the United Kingdom.
But Buffenstein did not see this trend in her lab animals. After they reached sexual maturity at 6 months of age, each naked mole rat’s daily chance of dying was a little more than one in 10,000. It stayed the same the rest of their lives and even went down a little, Buffenstein reports this week in elife. “To me this is the most exciting data I’ve ever gotten,” says Buffenstein. “It goes against everything we know in terms of mammalian biology.”
Studies have shown that naked mole rats have very active DNA repair and high levels of chaperones, proteins that help other proteins fold correctly. “I think the animals keep their house really neat and clean, rather than accumulate damage” that causes the physical deterioration associated with age, Buffenstein says."
 

Luann

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Don't they burrow their whole life and not breathe the same air we do? - and have more stable cells without PUFAs? - and eat mostly tubers?

And make great stuffed toys?


NMR.jpg


It all makes sense.
 

theLaw

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@haidut

How much of this do you think someone could replicate by living at high altitude or using a Co2 tank?

Thanks! :D
 

ilikecats

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@haidut have you ever considered applying these ideas to your office of home?! Like having CO2 pumped in through the vents. I suppose it might be a dangerous if something goes wrong. But if done right it could be a game changer! I always wondering why ray didn’t try something out like that. Another method of exposing yourself to a high CO2 enviroment would be to sleep an in enclosed tent. Former forum member vision of strength used to do that. He’d also breath 8% CO2 air through a device hooked up to a CO2 tank for two hours a day. That’s something worth investigating I think
 

dfspcc20

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Another method of exposing yourself to a high CO2 enviroment would be to sleep an in enclosed tent. Former forum member vision of strength used to do that.

Interesting. I suspect that the more "primitive" people might have gotten similar benefits via sleeping many people in a relatively confined space (tepee, igloo, yurt, etc) during the cold months.
 

haidut

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Don't they burrow their whole life and not breathe the same air we do? - and have more stable cells without PUFAs? - and eat mostly tubers?

And make great stuffed toys?


View attachment 8208


It all makes sense.

Yep, all of the above! And since the temps in the burrows tend to be much higher on average than surface temps, their tissue fat is mostly SFA. I suspect they are also capable of saturating PUFA, just like ruminants do.
 

haidut

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@haidut

How much of this do you think someone could replicate by living at high altitude or using a Co2 tank?

Thanks! :D

I think it can be replicated entirely by simply eating mostly saturated fat and inhibiting carbonic anhydrase with something as simple as thiamine. See the third post after bonobos and ants in the original thread. No need to move to 6000 feet altitude, even though that would have other benefits on top of higher CO2.
 

haidut

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@haidut have you ever considered applying these ideas to your office of home?! Like having CO2 pumped in through the vents. I suppose it might be a dangerous if something goes wrong. But if done right it could be a game changer! I always wondering why ray didn’t try something out like that. Another method of exposing yourself to a high CO2 enviroment would be to sleep an in enclosed tent. Former forum member vision of strength used to do that. He’d also breath 8% CO2 air through a device hooked up to a CO2 tank for two hours a day. That’s something worth investigating I think

It can definitely be done, but I think pharmacological inhibition of CO2 and PUFA restriction is probably much more realistic for most people.
 

haidut

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Interesting. I suspect that the more "primitive" people might have gotten similar benefits via sleeping many people in a relatively confined space (tepee, igloo, yurt, etc) during the cold months.

Yep, and you can easily experience this yourself when crowded up with a few other people in small room like an office or party. You probably have heard the expression "the air got stuffy, we need to open the windows". Usually, that stuffiness is the rising CO2, which raises people's temps and makes them sweat as well.
 

haidut

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Ooh didn't even think about that one.

View attachment 8211

Yep, same with other animals like fish. That's why eating fish from equatorial or tropical regions is not an issue as opposed to cold water fish like salmon and sardines.
 

Regina

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Yep, and you can easily experience this yourself when crowded up with a few other people in small room like an office or party. You probably have heard the expression "the air got stuffy, we need to open the windows". Usually, that stuffiness is the rising CO2, which raises people's temps and makes them sweat as well.
Aarrggh. Unfortunately, the belief is always to open the windows. In aikido tonight, they opened all the windows to 25 degrees farenheit plus windy. Everyone mouth breathing.
 

ilikecats

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"Further, relative to other small mammals, naked mole-rats exhibit low body temperature (Tb) and weak capacity to maintain Tb above the ambient temperature (Ta)” Doesn’t seem very peaty but I suppose they aren't perfect organisms. I think CO2 has such a profoundly beneficial effect that it's enough to explain the findings of the study @haidut posted.
"On the surface, carbon dioxide makes up less than one percent of the gases we breathe. But in these tunnels, carbon dioxide can account for 7 to 10 percent of the warm, close air" that's a lot of CO2 but as I mentioned earlier visionofstrength was doing experiments of inhaling 8% CO2 air and he didn't find it uncomfortable to do it for 1-2 hours straight. I believe he had to work up to that though... I'm getting excited just thinking about the possible applications. I gotta take the plunge and buy a CO2 tank.
 
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mipp

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Another method of exposing yourself to a high CO2 enviroment would be to sleep an in enclosed tent.
I'm skeptical about high CO2 being good for humans, especially for such a long time. In my experience having enough oxygen at night is essential for proper rest and regeneration. I've slept in small, poorly ventilated bedrooms and I would feel terrible the following day if there was no proper air ciruculation during the night. I've learned that it was necessary to leave the window (or bedroom door if it was too cold) at least partly open for the night to prevent CO2 buildup.
 
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I've slept in small, poorly ventilated bedrooms and I would feel terrible the following day if there was no proper air ciruculation during the night
This is my experience as well. Head under covers also makes for bad awakenings lol.
 

Luann

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I've noticed that every species that is known for living a very long time compared with other species like it, has no hair.

Hydra, ants, queen bees, bowhead whales, arctic clam, lobster, the NMR. And certain tortoise celebs.

horse.jpg

lifespan: 6 mo.

Lol.
 

tara

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I think naked mole rats are interesting, and this is cool.

I also think humans are not naked mole rats, and have not evolved to live in their environment.

have you ever considered applying these ideas to your office of home?! Like having CO2 pumped in through the vents.
Small scale, more personalised (given that people have differing needs/tolerances), easily under personal control and with a mechanism that stops supplementing if you lose consciousness would seem more sensible to me.

I suppose it might be a dangerous if something goes wrong.
No, really? (Pwawk pawk pawk pa...)
 

Amazoniac

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I have some doubts about mimicking the oxygen deprivation of high-altitude being good, the adaptation period is always stressful for the body. You'll be essentially stressing it constantly with these sudden changes and it can be a confusing signal. If it manages to somehow adapt to your environment and the artificial one that you've created, it's going to be with something that can vary fast, such as the vessel dilation commented below; not by increasing efficiency of oxygen delivery. This should apply to the training masks as well.

Three High-Altitude Peoples, Three Adaptations to Thin Air

"early settlers to the high plateaus likely suffered acute hypoxia, a condition created by a diminished supply of oxygen to body tissues."

"Symptoms of hypoxia, sometimes known as mountain sickness, include headaches, vomiting, sleeplessness, impaired thinking, and an inability to sustain long periods of physical activity."

"The Andeans adapted to the thin air by developing an ability to carry more oxygen in each red blood cell. That is: They breathe at the same rate as people who live at sea level, but the Andeans have the ability to deliver oxygen throughout their bodies more effectively than people at sea level do."

"Andeans counter having less oxygen in every breath by having higher hemoglobin concentrations in their blood" "Having more hemoglobin to carry oxygen through the blood system than people at sea level counterbalances the effects of hypoxia."

"Tibetans compensate for low oxygen content much differently. They increase their oxygen intake by taking more breaths per minute than people who live at sea level."
"Andeans go the hematological route, Tibetans the respiratory route"

"In addition, Tibetans may have a second biological adaptation, which expands their blood vessels, allowing them to deliver oxygen throughout their bodies more effectively than sea-level people do."

"Tibetans' lungs synthesize larger amounts of a gas called nitric oxide from the air they breathe." "One effect of nitric oxide is to increase the diameter of blood vessels, which suggests that Tibetans may offset low oxygen content in their blood with increased blood flow"​

I couldn't find the post, but when I was in Quito, I remember most visitors complaining (during the adaptation phase) about impairment of all sorts and the generalized sick feeling:
Altitude sickness - Wikipedia
 
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paymanz

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Yep, and you can easily experience this yourself when crowded up with a few other people in small room like an office or party. You probably have heard the expression "the air got stuffy, we need to open the windows". Usually, that stuffiness is the rising CO2, which raises people's temps and makes them sweat as well.
But that stuffy air is a sign of positive charged air to,which is not good thing.

Or im wrong?
 

haidut

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I have some doubts about mimicking the oxygen deprivation of high-altitude being good, the adaptation period is always stressful for the body. You'll be essentially stressing it constantly with these sudden changes and it can be a confusing signal. If it manages to somehow adapt to your environment and the artificial one that you've created, it's going to be with something that can vary fast, such as the vessel dilation commented below; not by increasing efficiency of oxygen delivery. This should apply to the training masks as well.

Three High-Altitude Peoples, Three Adaptations to Thin Air

"early settlers to the high plateaus likely suffered acute hypoxia, a condition created by a diminished supply of oxygen to body tissues."

"Symptoms of hypoxia, sometimes known as mountain sickness, include headaches, vomiting, sleeplessness, impaired thinking, and an inability to sustain long periods of physical activity."

"The Andeans adapted to the thin air by developing an ability to carry more oxygen in each red blood cell. That is: They breathe at the same rate as people who live at sea level, but the Andeans have the ability to deliver oxygen throughout their bodies more effectively than people at sea level do."

"Andeans counter having less oxygen in every breath by having higher hemoglobin concentrations in their blood" "Having more hemoglobin to carry oxygen through the blood system than people at sea level counterbalances the effects of hypoxia."

"Tibetans compensate for low oxygen content much differently. They increase their oxygen intake by taking more breaths per minute than people who live at sea level."
"Andeans go the hematological route, Tibetans the respiratory route"

"In addition, Tibetans may have a second biological adaptation, which expands their blood vessels, allowing them to deliver oxygen throughout their bodies more effectively than sea-level people do."

"Tibetans' lungs synthesize larger amounts of a gas called nitric oxide from the air they breathe." "One effect of nitric oxide is to increase the diameter of blood vessels, which suggests that Tibetans may offset low oxygen content in their blood with increased blood flow"​

I couldn't find the post, but when I was in Quito, I remember most visitors complaining (during the adaptation phase) about impairment of all sorts and the generalized sick feeling:
Altitude sickness - Wikipedia

It is indisputable that living at altitude for more than 2 weeks increase number and size of mitochondria inside the cell. So, then the person goes back to their normal living altitude for about a month they perform at a much higher rate. This is well-known and exploited by all sorts of athletes. The link between mitochondria and longevity is also pretty well established. So, all of these adaptations such as more hemoglobin or higher NO focus on the mechanism to respond to lower oxygen. But they miss the most important adaptation - more and better functioning mitochondria.
 
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