Naked Mole Rats Do Not Age

[Amazoniac]

It is indisputable that living at altitude for more than 2 weeks increase number and size of mitochondria inside the cell. So, then the person goes back to their normal living altitude for about a month they perform at a much higher rate. This is well-known and exploited by all sorts of athletes. The link between mitochondria and longevity is also pretty well established. So, all of these adaptations such as more hemoglobin or higher NO focus on the mechanism to respond to lower oxygen. But they miss the most important adaptation - more and better functioning mitochondria.

It's also indisputable that that you have a cloud buffet available all for yourself to stay as long as you want, whereas earthlings are trying to achieve the same privileges through brief and artificial limitation, which is what I'm unsure if it is good or works.

 

[haidut]

It's also indisputable that that you have a cloud buffet available all for yourself to stay as long as you want, whereas earthlings are trying to achieve the same privileges through brief and artificial limitation, which is what I'm unsure if it is good or works.

Lol, I don't have access to much more than most forum users don't have as well. However, @pboy probably does. Btw, what happened to him? He hasn't posted for a long time.

 

[Amazoniac]

Lol, I don't have access to much more than most forum users don't have as well. However, @pboy probably does. Btw, what happened to him? He hasn't posted for a long time.

I think he sent Travisord as consolation (and what a consolation!).

 

[Makrosky]

I think it can be replicated entirely by simply eating mostly saturated fat and inhibiting carbonic anhydrase with something as simple as thiamine. See the third post after bonobos and ants in the original thread. No need to move to 6000 feet altitude, even though that would have other benefits on top of higher CO2.

Haidut, why do people that live at high altitudes need to chew coca leaves and stuff? I'm not talking about turists I'm talking about locals. Maybe living at high altitude is not always beneficial. For instance it can (or will) increase the hematocrits which can cause a range of problems.

Sorry I just saw @Amazoniac pointed it.

 

[Makrosky]

I have some doubts about mimicking the oxygen deprivation of high-altitude being good, the adaptation period is always stressful for the body. You'll be essentially stressing it constantly with these sudden changes and it can be a confusing signal. If it manages to somehow adapt to your environment and the artificial one that you've created, it's going to be with something that can vary fast, such as the vessel dilation commented below; not by increasing efficiency of oxygen delivery. This should apply to the training masks as well.

Three High-Altitude Peoples, Three Adaptations to Thin Air

"early settlers to the high plateaus likely suffered acute hypoxia, a condition created by a diminished supply of oxygen to body tissues."

"Symptoms of hypoxia, sometimes known as mountain sickness, include headaches, vomiting, sleeplessness, impaired thinking, and an inability to sustain long periods of physical activity."

"The Andeans adapted to the thin air by developing an ability to carry more oxygen in each red blood cell. That is: They breathe at the same rate as people who live at sea level, but the Andeans have the ability to deliver oxygen throughout their bodies more effectively than people at sea level do."

"Andeans counter having less oxygen in every breath by having higher hemoglobin concentrations in their blood" "Having more hemoglobin to carry oxygen through the blood system than people at sea level counterbalances the effects of hypoxia."

"Tibetans compensate for low oxygen content much differently. They increase their oxygen intake by taking more breaths per minute than people who live at sea level."
"Andeans go the hematological route, Tibetans the respiratory route"

"In addition, Tibetans may have a second biological adaptation, which expands their blood vessels, allowing them to deliver oxygen throughout their bodies more effectively than sea-level people do."

"Tibetans' lungs synthesize larger amounts of a gas called nitric oxide from the air they breathe." "One effect of nitric oxide is to increase the diameter of blood vessels, which suggests that Tibetans may offset low oxygen content in their blood with increased blood flow"​

I couldn't find the post, but when I was in Quito, I remember most visitors complaining (during the adaptation phase) about impairment of all sorts and the generalized sick feeling:
Altitude sickness - Wikipedia

What's a good "Peat" strategy to counter that besides chewing coca leaves liie locals do? I'm going to Quito in a few weeks. Just in case : it's a serious question!

 

[Amazoniac]

What's a good "Peat" strategy to counter that besides chewing coca leaves liie locals do? I'm going to Quito in a few weeks. Just in case : it's a serious question!

Non-malaried, Rayzord has some suggestions:

Mitochondria and mortality
"Light promotes glucose oxidation, and is known to activate the key respiratory enzyme. Winter sickness (including lethargy and weight gain), and night stress, have to be included within the idea of the "respiratory defect," shifting to the antirespiratory production of lactic acid, and damaging the mitochondria."

"several nontoxic therapies can do the same things: Palmitate (formed from sugar under the influence of thyroid hormone, and found in coconut oil), vitamin B1, biotin, lipoic acid, carbon dioxide, thyroid, naloxone, acetazolamide, for example."

Nosebleeds are common.

 

[tara]

What's a good "Peat" strategy to counter that besides chewing coca leaves liie locals do? I'm going to Quito in a few weeks. Just in case : it's a serious question!

Whatever tactics you try to adapt to the conditions, if they are not working and you get sick, don't ignore it. Get down if you need to. Seriously.
I've heard that ascending gradually can help with adaptation.
Is acetazolamide or other carbonic anhydrase inhibitors amongst the possible pharmaceutical treatments for altitude sickness?

 

[Travis]

I head a rumor that Richard Gere had also done experiments using naked mole rats.. .

 

[haidut]

Haidut, why do people that live at high altitudes need to chew coca leaves and stuff? I'm not talking about turists I'm talking about locals. Maybe living at high altitude is not always beneficial. For instance it can (or will) increase the hematocrits which can cause a range of problems.

Sorry I just saw @Amazoniac pointed it.

Maybe as a stimulant. Chronically higher levels of CO2 make people drowsy, sleepy and relaxed - and it is one of the first signs when people go up high. So, if you need to do work then you may need some pick me up and cocaine is one such stimulant.
I don't know, could be cultural too.

 

[Averroës]

"... we notice HOLY COW, fructose is through the roof in a lot of these tissues... "

 

[Makrosky]

Non-malaried, Rayzord has some suggestions:

Mitochondria and mortality
"Light promotes glucose oxidation, and is known to activate the key respiratory enzyme. Winter sickness (including lethargy and weight gain), and night stress, have to be included within the idea of the "respiratory defect," shifting to the antirespiratory production of lactic acid, and damaging the mitochondria."

"several nontoxic therapies can do the same things: Palmitate (formed from sugar under the influence of thyroid hormone, and found in coconut oil), vitamin B1, biotin, lipoic acid, carbon dioxide, thyroid, naloxone, acetazolamide, for example."

Nosebleeds are common.

Ok thanks man, I'll stock up on B1 :)

 

[Makrosky]

Whatever tactics you try to adapt to the conditions, if they are not working and you get sick, don't ignore it. Get down if you need to. Seriously.
I've heard that ascending gradually can help with adaptation.
Is acetazolamide or other carbonic anhydrase inhibitors amongst the possible pharmaceutical treatments for altitude sickness?

Can it lead to severe complications?

 

[Makrosky]

Maybe as a stimulant. Chronically higher levels of CO2 make people drowsy, sleepy and relaxed - and it is one of the first signs when people go up high. So, if you need to do work then you may need some pick me up and cocaine is one such stimulant.
I don't know, could be cultural too.

Drowsy and sleepy doesn't sound as benefitial to me... Well I'll let you guys know my experience. I'll be checking temps and pulse.

 

[Amazoniac]

Can it lead to severe complications?

Just so you get into an intramind conflict: don't worry, it's not as bad as it sounds.
The city is indeed elevated but the majority of the adverse reports (in general) come from angelords pushing their limits on very high-altitudes (>3500m), without proper adaptation, usually involving intense exercise: athletes, climbers or trekkers. However! Even in these cases they only start to be really cautious above 3000m:

Altitude sickness - Wikipedia

"Once above approximately 3,000 metres (10,000 ft) – a pressure of 70 kilopascals (0.69 atm) – most climbers and high-altitude trekkers take the "climb-high, sleep-low" approach."​

It's just a temporary diminished performance.

 

[haidut]

Drowsy and sleepy doesn't sound as benefitial to me

Actually it could be, as it is often a sign of higher dopamine and lower serotonin.
Inosine As A Powerful Inhibitor Of Serotonin (and Possibly Cortisol) Synthesis

 

[Makrosky]

Just so you get into an intramind conflict: don't worry, it's not as bad as it sounds.
The city is indeed elevated but the majority of the adverse reports (in general) come from angelords pushing their limits on very high-altitudes (>3500m), without proper adaptation, usually involving intense exercise: athletes, climbers or trekkers. However! Even in these cases they only start to be really cautious above 3000m:

"Once above approximately 3,000 metres (10,000 ft) – a pressure of 70 kilopascals (0.69 atm) – most climbers and high-altitude trekkers take the "climb-high, sleep-low" approach."​

It's just a temporary diminished performance.

:) :) thanks man!

 

[tara]

Can it lead to severe complications?

I'm not an expert, and in no position to give medical advice, so please investigate more fully if you are considering it.
I from memory of superficial reading, there are some contraindications, and if you have those, then it can get complicated.

"Once above approximately 3,000 metres (10,000 ft) – a pressure of 70 kilopascals (0.69 atm) – most climbers and high-altitude trekkers take the "climb-high, sleep-low" approach."

This is climbers, that is people who presumably have decent basic health and fitness - self-selected not to be particularly vulnerable to altitude.
People are different. Some people are more vulnerable than others. Occasionally people do suffer unexpected and tragic effects that could be avoided if they or the people around them were alert to the warning signs/symptoms, even in places that most people can thrive. This is not just hypothetical.

 

[Amazoniac]

This is climbers, that is people who presumably have decent basic health and fitness - self-selected not to be particularly vulnerable to altitude.
People are different. Some people are more vulnerable than others. Occasionally people do suffer unexpected and tragic effects that could be avoided if they or the people around them were alert to the warning signs/symptoms, even in places that most people can thrive. This is not just hypothetical.

I cannot remember of any visitor experiencing the 'severe symptoms' from that link. The 'primary symptoms' are common, which is why I framed it as diminished performance because it's a matter of respecting the limits, just like you would slow down on your daily basis when you feel things aren't right. Most of the problems come when people are debilitated or trying to push their limits ignoring warnings of the body. This is not Makrosky, he's balanced as you can tell. Antecipating a sick feeling tends to make it greater than it is and the worry will only predispose you to it.

 

[tara]

I cannot remember of any visitor experiencing the 'severe symptoms' from that link. The 'primary symptoms' are common, which is why I framed it as diminished performance because it's a matter of respecting the limits, just like you would slow down on your daily basis when you feel things aren't right. Most of the problems come when people are debilitated or trying to push their limits ignoring warnings of the body. This is not Makrosky, he's balanced as you can tell. Antecipating a sick feeling tends to make it greater than it is and the worry will only predispose you to it.

Respecting limits makes good sense. And the most serious problems will not apply to most people. But I knew (not well) a youngish adult who died of altitude sickness. As I understand it, he was spending time in a town where people live their lives, not a climbing outpost. I don't think he was climbing. I'm not sure of the exact altitude. I did not know him well enough to know if he had some prior vulnerability, but as I understand it, he did not know he was in danger before hand, or understand what was happening when he got sick.
I'm not meaning that this is a likely thing to happen, and I don't want to scare anyone off spending time at altitude - most likely it will do good not harm. I just want people to pay attention if they feel unwell, and not allow it to get out of hand.
I've known others who have had to get back downhill as tourists, who were not being particularly physically active, but got sick at altitudes that some people can live at comfortably.
No doubt it is possible to talk oneself into feeling sicker than necessary, but altitude sickness is a very physical thing, and it could be dangerous to treat it as all in the mind and just to be endured if it really were becoming serious.

 

[shepherdgirl]

What are some theories as to why bonobos do not age? From what I can tell, the region of the Congo Basin where they live is not particularly high in elevation. They eat a lot of fruit, plant parts, insects, and small animals, similar to chimps. So why are they different? Do they somehow retain more CO2, and why would that be? Why would they have a better metabolic rate?Does it have something to do with their small stature?