Androsterone's Use In The Phero-scene

[LeeLemonoil]

Hello everyone,

new to the boards, but aware of the theses and viewpoints of Peateans and Ray Peat for quite some time as an avid information-seaker in all things health and supplement related.

Coincidentally, shortly before I signed up here, some new threads about Androsterone were established. As some are certainly aware, this substance is also a staple in the "pheromone"-scene.
It is in fact the main and anchoring molecule used in so called "alpha-male" products - blends to establish and enhance social status and respect, and in so called "fallout"-mixes. Which are blends aimed to induce romantic longing and attachement in females exposed to the wearer of such a blend.

The effective dosage of Androsterone in pheromone-blends is ~0,5 - 5mcg (microgramm). There is a lot of anecdotal experience that more than that will cause much aggression in oneself and males exposed to it, also "ghosting" and shy-away from others. It becomes anti-social and hard to handle. "Megadoses" of 100mcg+ on the other hand are closer in effects to the tiny doses. No coherent theory established about the cause of that.

Androsterone-Sulfate, DHEA, DHEA-Sulfat are also widely used molecules in pheromone products. The Sulftaes have distinctly other effects than the unconjugated molecules.
DHEA is said to "round out" the stern, alphaish effects of Androsterone, and exerts good self-effects. Some users report though that both DHEA and DHEA-S convey a "shallow" impression about the wearer and contradict the fallout-capacities.

I have long suspected that molecules like DHEA and DHEA-S need to be paired with aromatase-inhibitors so that the metabolic blueprint they might convey is that the wearer is an organism capable of "handling" huge amounts of parent-steroids like DHEA (and reaping the health benefits like ERbeta activation) while stayin gon the male side of things - the aromatase inhibitors indicating the bodies ability to keep the androgens afloat.
Haiduts posts about the Androsterone/DHEA synergies seem to say the very same things, whih caused me to open this thread. I was not aware though that Arone is an aromatase inhibitor, and I thought molecules like 6-oxo-Androstenetrione were essential when pairing Androsterone with DHEA. 6-oxo-Etrione is a strong, designer aromatase inhibitor also used in pheromone products that exert similar effects as Arone, albeit in a more intense manner.

On another note, 3β-androstanediol and it's alpha isomer are two steroids I'm very interested in as use in pheromones, but I could not get my hands on them as of yet. As it seems, they are both downstream metabolites of of both DHEA and DHT, so maybe Androsterone and DHEA paired will increase synthesis of both as well. I recommend looking up the wikipedia entries of those two substances, highly enlightening

 

[miki14]

I find the subject of pheromones fascinating but I'm totally ignorant about it. Where can I get a good introduction, in your opinion? I found perfumes & scents to be very powerful mood enhancers. I always wondered if perfumes are the secret nootropics of women (and the few men). A theme that interests me is synergistic effects of derivatives of a molecule. I made the experience that the combination of pregnenolone and vitamin D, both derivatives of cholesterol have a much stronger effect than on its own. The synergistic effects of pregnenolone with dhea or dhea with androsterone are already known in this forum. I also find that natural products like coffee, tea and chocolate have a more balanced effect than pure isolated caffeine but nature is not perfect and there might be also by product with negative effects like estrogenic or histamine effects, so I'm not opposed to refining a natural product per se. (Coffee with cocoa is one of my favorite drink by the way, adding tea is fun too.) I read similar thoughts in your post. The art of composing a perfume seems to hold some interesting secrets.