Am I hurting myself by avoiding fat like butter and coconut oil? I can't have both.. what's another

Discussion in 'Macros & Micros' started by mayweatherking, Sep 13, 2015.

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  1. mayweatherking

    mayweatherking Member

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    I avoid butter because I have issues with cow dairy. I use raw goat milk. I also avoid coconut oil because I tried refined and regular and was coughing on it with a scratchy throat. I'm doing everything else peat style.. like cheese, milk, OJ, eggshell calcium, eggs, raw carrot, salt. Am I getting enough fat from milk and cheese?
     
  2. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

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    You can get more than enough fat from milk, cheese and eggs.

    Have you tried ghee (clarified butter)? You can use it for frying.
     
  3. OP
    mayweatherking

    mayweatherking Member

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    Okay I just wanted to make sure. No I haven't tried that... is it common at whole foods? it looks like cow though
     
  4. Tarmander

    Tarmander Member

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    I wanted to add, in my job, I sometimes sample out coconut oil and coughing and having a scratchy throat is pretty common and doesn't mean your allergic or anything. Try mixing it in with milk or rice or soup and you may find that easier. Also, raw goats milk had a ton of fat, even higher then milk...I think naturally it's like 4%+
     
  5. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

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    Ghee it's made of cow's milk, but it is the pure fat. The other parts are removed. Use google.
     
  6. James IV

    James IV Member

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    If you are digesting/utilizing (not just ingesting) sufficient calories (specifically glucose) then you can get by with lower fat intake. If you are under-fueled, then insufficient fat will be a problem.
     
  7. OP
    mayweatherking

    mayweatherking Member

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    well I thought I was getting enough fat? if I'm not getting enough fat, I don't want to get by on lower amounts, if anything I want more, but I'm not sure what I can have. Do you think the ghee would work for me even though I can't do cow?
    Thanks.. I will look into it.
    How do you know it doesn't mean you are allergic? I'm pretty sure it means I am allergic. Why would I get a scratchy throat if I wasn't allergic to it? I also get very spacey in my head and feel out of it. Not normal feelings.
     
  8. James IV

    James IV Member

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    Something to consider regarding "allergies." If your body receives sufficient energy after being under-energized for long periods of time, it will up regulate systems that have been down regulated, such as digestive, immune system, etc. So symptoms that may appear to be allergies are simply your immune system finally having energy available to begin to "fight" lingering infections/bacteria/etc. Remember, inflammation occurs to "direct" the immune system to areas that need healing.
     
  9. Tarmander

    Tarmander Member

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    It's your call man, do what you want. I just don't want someone reading this and thinking they are allergic because drinking pure oil is uncomfortable. It is very common that when you take the oil all by itself it causes that scratchy feeling. It even happens to me and I use coconut oil all the time.
     
  10. tara

    tara Member

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    This make sense to me.

    So does this.
    Getting a reaction to a concentrated substance may not be allergy - may just be that it would be better mixed with other stuff.
    Any chemical at high enough concentration can be a problem, including sugar and salt.
    Several of us get scratchy throats from progest-e - nothing to do with allergy, just too viscous.

    So you can try mixing things up. But if you keep getting bad reactions anyway, then giving it a rest may be wise. You can try again later if you get things working a bit better.

    Cocoa butter is another mostly-saturated fat, if you are looking for alternatives.
     
  11. Westside PUFAs

    Westside PUFAs Member

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    Why are you so concerned with getting "enough" fat?

    What is dietary fats ultimate role?

    poly no, mono not much, sat., well, your BMI is what helps one determine how much SAFA you should be eating.

    Don't forget that even too much saturated fat can cause problems:

    ""Just about everything that goes wrong involves FFA increase. If they are totally saturated fatty acids, such as from coconut oil and butter, those are less harmful, but they still tend to shift the mitochondrial cellular metabolism away from using glucose and fructose and turning on various stress related things; By lowering the carbon dioxide production I think is the main mechanism." - RP

    Yes. Peat recommends low fat dairy. See here for the quotes:

    viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7402&p=93284#p93284
     
  12. James IV

    James IV Member

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    Peat recommends a low intake of fat, on the premise that you are able to convert carbohydrate to fat via the liver. If you have a compromised liver, which many chronic dieters, especially low carbers, probably do, then you need to eat a higher quantity of fat until your liver function improves, and you can replace the dietary fat with higher carbohydrate, thus insuring the fats in your body are all saturated/mono, because they are being produced by your body. Fat is not just an energy substrate, it's also used structurally, and for hormone production.
     
  13. Westside PUFAs

    Westside PUFAs Member

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    Source for this or elaborate?

    I only know of gut bacteria that ferment carbohydrate into butyric acid, not the liver.
     
  14. James IV

    James IV Member

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    My use of the word "fat" is probably a
    poor choice. I am generally referring to cholesterol when I say fat.
     
  15. Westside PUFAs

    Westside PUFAs Member

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    AIUI, steroid hormones are made from vitamin a and cholesterol together, not SAFA consumed fat. And cholesterol is made from sugar in the liver. Regardless of liver function, it seems that there is still a limit on how much SAFA can be consumed without problems with the Randle cycle starting, like the Peat quote I put above.
     
  16. tara

    tara Member

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    Without having to search very heard, I think you can find lots of descriptions of lipogenesis in the liver.

    There was recent discussion in another thread about the body using elongases and desaturases and producing various fatty acid variants, not just saturates and Mead acid.

    Like James, I'd be expecting most reasonably healthy people who get enough other nourishment to do fine (and maybe sometimes better) on a very low fat diet, but I can imagine that there might be some people whose systems are damaged or dysfunctional enough to have trouble sustaining adequate lipogenesis.

    It's also easier to get enough of the fat-soluble vitamins by way of some dietary fat.

    Peat has also mentioned that a little fat can aid digestion.

    But for most people, not much is needed. For some chronically undernourished people, more may be beneficial.

    I agree with Westside about fat, including SFAs, restricting carbohydrate metabolism via the Randle process. This seems like a good reason not to go overboard on it.
     
  17. James IV

    James IV Member

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    It is a load on the liver to convert fructose to cholesterol, even in a well functioning liver. So relying on that process when the liver is compromised, is probably not conducive to healing. The dietary safa only becomes a problem when they are displacing too much carbohydrate as energy. Generally, vitamin A and cholesterol come with saturated fats in real food. I suppose you could eat certain seafood/plant foods to meet your needs, but I'm not sure that's necessary or even healthy.
    I am not implying a person should be eating a high fat diet. I'm only saying that going too low in cholesterol/fat while the liver is still compromised, may not be a good idea.
     
  18. OP
    mayweatherking

    mayweatherking Member

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    I have very dry skin and my hair is falling out and I have zero libido.. so I know fat is important so I wanted to make aure to get enough
     
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