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I'd Like To Understand Better All About Dairies.

Discussion in 'Dairy' started by Xisca, Apr 4, 2015.

  1. Xisca

    Xisca Member

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    There are really different points about dairies, and I find it complicated to cross all the criterias to take into account.

    Some people have problem with lactose, others with caseine.... some with milk and cheese is ok, or only some cheese....

    Fermenting is supposed to be good... or bad. I have no digestive problem with yogurt nor fermented cheese or blue cheese. ok, lactic acid... but is this oe bad? I would think that the problem is lactic acid in muscles, from anarobic exercice....

    Has milk been transformed in the past only for "keeping with no fridge" reasons? Or are there some health reasons too?

    Many ways have 2 sides, and some bad aspect may be counterbalanced for some people and not others.... Fermented food is thought to be protective through their probiotic effect. I know they can be carcinogenic, but if in great quantities and for some part of the digestive track. I meann this looks only as an irritative local effect, not general on all the body.

    Then, would you drink sterilized UHT cow milk?
    Is there any recommendation about the animal giving the milk?
    Anything about raw, pasteurized and sterilized?
    I think I remember Peat wrinting that raw is better and pasteurized second.
    And pastured fed as well?

    I have access to goat dairies, but they eat corn and soy for sure...
    Also some sheep milk around here, cow products are imported. The organic cow butter I buy to make ghee is from Germany...

    So, the most common cheese here is made from the stomach of young goats, and withh raw milk. I might be lucky? It is also full fat. Then I have to decide if fresh cheese is better than the 2 months or 5 months old drier cheese.

    What's about brie or camembert style? They also make some of it here.
     
  2. OP
    Xisca

    Xisca Member

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    I used to have sinusitis with ordinary dairies, even with very little. Really, it stpped so quick when I stopped dairies! (which was some yogurt and some grated gruyere).
    That is why I am very careful with dairies, and want to chose to ones that will do best, among what is available here!

    So, a lot of different things to take into account if I summerize:
    - the animal giving the milk
    - the processing of the milk, from raw to sterilized
    - the product that is made with the milk
    - the addition of bacterias and/or funghi
    - the time of curing cheese from fresh to stone hard!
    - Something else to take into account?
     
  3. you

    you Member

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    Peat is generally not a fan of fermentation due to the lactic acid content of fermented foods. I believe the "probiotic" effects and benefits are overstated.

    Generally, the 3 dairy foods that are most approved of here are: Low-fat milk, greek yogurt and hard cheese

    Greek yogurt is yogurt with the whey strained out, Peat doesn't like whey because it apparently spikes insulin very hard. Hard cheese has less fat than soft cheese, which is usually viewed as beneficial and of course, low-fat milk has less fat than whole-fat.

    I believe there are a few problems with homogenization of milk while pasteurization is ok/good depending on how it's pasteurized (there are different methods).

    Goat milk is great stuff too. Cheese is best made from raw milk and with ANIMAL RENNET, it's less allergenic among others things.

    You should try to buy organic and grass-fed milk over typical cheap milk I believe, or at least I do, I find I digest it better and it tastes better, plus it isn't homogenized. In Australia, where I live, most dairy is from a few conglomerate dairy corporations. I get my milk from a local farm where their cows are almost fully grass-fed with a tiny bit of grain and hay.

    Hope this helped OP!
     
  4. tara

    tara Member

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    Hi Xisca,
    Yes, there are a lot of actors to take into account, aren't there. But as you say, different factors may make a large or small difernce for different people. So it largely come down to trying the variants that are available to you, and seeing which ones seem to work for you. Some thought inline below:

    Bound to be other factors i can't currently bring to mind. :)

    Summary:
    Favour fresh over fermented milk, avoid additive gums and emulsifiers etc. Favour grass-fed, but don't fret i you can't get it. Consider what calorie density and protein you need. Experiment with available sources and drink any milk that agrees with you personally.
     
  5. tara

    tara Member

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    So yes, I did think of another factor I missed. Some people are intolerant of lactose, and get digestive sdistress from it. In the short-term, this can make lower lactose products such as cheese or strained yogurt preferable for major dairy consumption. Peat has said that many people can gradually restore lactose digestion by starting with just a little milk with meals, and gradually increasing the amount as the body adapts with more lactase production.
    I think it may be more common to have trouble with the lactose than the proteins, but for me I have not noticed any digestive distress from milk, and I suspect it is the proteins that sometimes mess with me.
     
  6. OP
    Xisca

    Xisca Member

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    Thanks, I have to look for more information about lactic acid in Peat's articles.
    I believe that the probiotic effect exists, and may be better to not understate it either?
    I also believe that an excess would be bad because of the irritation of the digestive tract, and carcinogenic effect, but it has been reported in traditions with a BIG amount of fermented food.

    If whey spikes insuline, this is more a concern for me!

    Well, so I am LUCKY!
    Where I live, goat cheese is made with only rennet and raw milk. They make it with a lot of rennet, so it is made in 1/2 hour, removes a lot of the whey and anable to eat it very fresh and totaly unfermented.

    I prefer to buy it organic, because the problem is that goats eat more and more genetically modified corn and soy. I learned also that goats now live half the years they did before, and produce half the time they did...

    And raw goat milk is very tasty, nothing to do with the tetra-packed one!
     
  7. OP
    Xisca

    Xisca Member

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    Tara, how do you react to dairies?
    I also think I have more problem with the protein than the lactose...
    Is there a dairy with less casein?

    I have known people who had ever-ending problems that were solved by stopping dairies, or eating only from goat and sheep. Problems include all colds and throat or bronchis problems, + joint problems.
    It seems that when the gut is not funcioning well, some undigested parts of milk pass in the bloodstream, and have to be excreted by the body, by lungs, or deposited into articulations.
    I have personally helped a little boy of 2 recover both from chronic colds and diarrhea just by the advise to try and stop dairies.
    I also have this sort of problems, BUT I digest milk and dairies perfectly!
    So it does not seem to come from lactose....

    I guess the problem can be with proteins.
    I heard about caseinomorphin that some people produce from milk (same as gluteomorphin from gluten, both are proteins)

    It is very contrary to a lot of sayings, and it seems that it is good to have plenty of good bacterias, just to have them fight for yourself against the bad ones! May be some people have difficulties with bacterias just because they don't have the right ones in the digestive tract...

    A local organic cheese maker told me here that his analysis are always good and beleves that there is such a level of good bacterias from cheese making, that the bad ones have no room to develop.

    When I make ghee from butter, I find it incredible what amount of casein there is in butter!
    Yes I try to have as much saturated fat as possible, and have been doing it for long, ooof!

    Not sure what is cottage cheese made from... I think it is made with bacterias, a type that works at lower temps than the ones for yogurt. This is the case of a local cheese that looks like the cottage cheese I can remember... A nice very white speading cheese. Also, it has less fat.

    I have always been thin but want to be sure to get rid of an excess pufa, to solve inflamatory problems. But at the moment I do well with fat calories, more easy than sugar for me... Starches are an absolute no for me at the moment.

    Great input for me as well, as I am almost sure I have a problem with histamine!!!!

    REal all good info, thanks soooo much to all for helping!
     
  8. jyb

    jyb Member

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    Maybe due to the poor quality of commercial cow milk? Unhealthy cows, homogeneization,... Other dairy products don't go through as much processing.
     
  9. OP
    Xisca

    Xisca Member

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    Right + genetic natural selection for more milk and "better" milk/production....
    For sure and Indian or African cow has nothing to do!!!

    And growth factors?
    A cow is a bigger animal than sheep and goat... and us.

    I have heard that boiling the milk remove some of these, without doing so much harm as pasteurizing.
    Anybody knows something about this?
     
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