Venous insufficiency? Pointers please!

[fevronia]

I went to a doctor yesterday to see if I could get a patch of visible veins that are behind one knee lasered . I assumed it was cosmetic issue. The doctor told me my veins look awful and that I probably have venous insufficiency. He continued I would probably need 10-15 vials to inject them and even then it would be a lifeline problem that will return and get worse as I age
.
I was shocked because I hadn’t realized I had a real problem with my veins. Also the doctor’s tone was very curt and he wouldn’t let me ask questions very easily. My parents have no issue with their veins so I am unfamiliar with this problem. I do remember my grandmother having visible blue veins and maybe spider veins on her legs, however she did not have treatment for it.

I am wondering what I can do to prevent future issues with my veins? I have always been veiny , including my hands when they are hanging down, but I thought that was normal for me. I do have some achy soreness in my calves from time to time. I thought it might have been sciatica.

Is aspirin helpful or harmful in venous insufficiency? What about exercise? I like to dance and do martial arts.

Should I eat less salt? More vit C? More vit K? Get my hormone panel done? More water? Lift my bed? Any experiences to share would be appreciated. I am not interested in the 10-15 vials that will not solve the root of the problem if I can help it otherwise.

 

[Peatress]

Improving metabolism with thyroid (if needed) and progesterone are the Peaty ways to address venous insufficiency.

What is your doctor planning to inject you with?

 

[fevronia]

Improving metabolism with thyroid (if needed) and progesterone are the Peaty ways to address venous insufficiency.

What is your doctor planning to inject you with?

“The solution normally used for this procedure is called sodium tetradecyl sulphate (STD) and is available in different concentrations depending on the size of the vein being treated.”

Thanks for your reply. How much progesterone would be good to start with? I used some cream in the past and didn’t notice any changes so I stopped after that container. Currently I take Pregnenolone .

 

[Peatress]

It depends on if you are male or female and your age

These might help you work it out

• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 1
• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 2
• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 3

I don't know anything about sodium tetradecyl sulphate but I would be cautious of injecting anything without having a full list of all the ingredients

Sodium tetradecyl sulfate Uses, Side Effects & Warnings

Physician reviewed sodium tetradecyl sulfate patient information - includes sodium tetradecyl sulfate description, dosage and directions.

www.drugs.com

Sodium Tetradecyl Sulfate Injection: PI - Drugs.com

Sodium Tetradecyl Sulfate Injection package insert / prescribing information for healthcare professionals. Includes: indications, dosage, adverse reactions and pharmacology.

www.drugs.com

Sotradecol (Sodium Tetradecyl): Side Effects, Uses, Dosage, Interactions, Warnings

Sotradecol (Sodium Tetradecyl) may treat, side effects, dosage, drug interactions, warnings, patient labeling, reviews, and related medications including drug comparison and health resources.

www.rxlist.com

 

[fevronia]

It depends on if you are male or female and your age

These might help you work it out

• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 1
• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 2
• Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 3

I don't know anything about sodium tetradecyl sulphate but I would be cautious of injecting anything without having a full list of all the ingredients

Sodium tetradecyl sulfate Uses, Side Effects & Warnings

Physician reviewed sodium tetradecyl sulfate patient information - includes sodium tetradecyl sulfate description, dosage and directions.

www.drugs.com

Sodium Tetradecyl Sulfate Injection: PI - Drugs.com

Sodium Tetradecyl Sulfate Injection package insert / prescribing information for healthcare professionals. Includes: indications, dosage, adverse reactions and pharmacology.

www.drugs.com

Sotradecol (Sodium Tetradecyl): Side Effects, Uses, Dosage, Interactions, Warnings

Sotradecol (Sodium Tetradecyl) may treat, side effects, dosage, drug interactions, warnings, patient labeling, reviews, and related medications including drug comparison and health resources.

www.rxlist.com

Thanks for sharing! I will give these a listen. I’m a female in early 40’s by the way. I don’t like the idea of injections and would worry about long term side effects. I’d rather have healthy veins if possible!
I’m also going to get a second professional opinion before doing any serious medical treatment . I don’t have varicose veins nor any symptoms besides slight aching and prominent blue veins (I thought that was because my skin is pale). The more visible spot behind my knee happened when I was pregnant. Now I am concerned. The doctor seemed to think my legs looked awful and it was an obvious problem.

 

[Peatress]

Thanks for sharing! I will give these a listen. I’m a female in early 40’s by the way. I don’t like the idea of injections and would worry about long term side effects. I’d rather have healthy veins if possible!
I’m also going to get a second professional opinion before doing any serious medical treatment . I don’t have varicose veins nor any symptoms besides slight aching and prominent blue veins (I thought that was because my skin is pale). The more visible spot behind my knee happened when I was pregnant. Now I am concerned. The doctor seemed to think my legs looked awful and it was an obvious problem.

I went looking for the interview where Dr Peat talks about blue veins but I can't find it. I think he said it's related to estrogen, circulation, and poor oxygenation - so anything that improves circulation should help.

 

[ubiety]

Try horsechestnut and butchers broom. Nature's Way makes a good one as an option.

 

[GTW]

After passing through capillary vessels in the extremities the pressure to return blood to the heart is very low. Venous return is facilitated by pumps in the foot and calf, and valves in the calf veins. Exercise like walking and stair climbing or stair stepper actuate the pumps.

 

[Mauritio]

I went to a doctor yesterday to see if I could get a patch of visible veins that are behind one knee lasered . I assumed it was cosmetic issue. The doctor told me my veins look awful and that I probably have venous insufficiency. He continued I would probably need 10-15 vials to inject them and even then it would be a lifeline problem that will return and get worse as I age
.
I was shocked because I hadn’t realized I had a real problem with my veins. Also the doctor’s tone was very curt and he wouldn’t let me ask questions very easily. My parents have no issue with their veins so I am unfamiliar with this problem. I do remember my grandmother having visible blue veins and maybe spider veins on her legs, however she did not have treatment for it.

I am wondering what I can do to prevent future issues with my veins? I have always been veiny , including my hands when they are hanging down, but I thought that was normal for me. I do have some achy soreness in my calves from time to time. I thought it might have been sciatica.

Is aspirin helpful or harmful in venous insufficiency? What about exercise? I like to dance and do martial arts.

Should I eat less salt? More vit C? More vit K? Get my hormone panel done? More water? Lift my bed? Any experiences to share would be appreciated. I am not interested in the 10-15 vials that will not solve the root of the problem if I can help it otherwise.

I also have a varicose vein and for me it has a lot to do with gut health. When my gut health is bad the vein is worse and protruding more. And when the gut is inflamed, there is more endotoxin, which increases estrogen, which is known to cause varicose veins.

I asked Peat about this some time ago, the exchange is also in the email advice thread, but I'll post it here again for simplictiy.

Q:Hello Mr. Peat,
Is a varicose vein dangerous from your point of you or just an expression that something else is going wrong in the body ?

A:It probably slightly increases the risk of clots.

Q:So would too much vitamin K be harmful since it increases the thickness of the blood ?

A:Vitamin K shouldn’t affect the blood’s viscosity.

Q: Do you think the structural damage of a varicose vein can be reversed ?

I'm applying pregnenolone cream on it from time to time ,but I'm not really sure if it's even possible to heal it.

A:Progesterone and vitamin K are better absorbed topically than pregnenolone is. Oral pregnenolone is helpful. Restoring the ability of venous smooth muscle to contract will correct the balooned vein.

Q:Thank you !
The skin area above my varicose vein is a lot warmer then the surrounding area . Does that mean it's inflamed ?

A: Do you take any vitamin E? That and aspirin should help the inflammation.

 

[Mauritio]

This is another exchange with Peat on that mattter

Me: I am convinced the varicocele is linked to the synthetic Testosterone Enanthate injections and the metandienone and nolvadex pills. I cannot prove it though.

I want to restore the varicocele really bad. But I am really confused on the dynamics of it. For example, is the vein itself damaged, that it can't keep constricted? Or is it due to compression by a muscle that keeps it in this bloated state? Or both? The vein is called the pampiniform plexus which is connected the scrotal/gonadal/spermatic vein. I find it so dissapointing that this phenomenon in young males is so understudied in the medical science. Simply cutting the vein off is not convincing to me and seems very unlogical.

RP:

Me: I am currently trying to change my perspective and start looking at this problem as a problem of an enlarged colon, possibly due to hidden constipation. This enlarged colon could be pushing against the gonadal vein, causing the varicocele. Is there anything that you could recommend in order to treat an enlarged colon due to undigested matter and the like still sitting in there, or is this a theory that is quackery by naturopaths?

RP:

Me:
Dear Dr. Peat,

Thank you for your kindness in giving such great advice. In my research of the subject however I have now become further confused after reading how in certain studies varicoceles corresponded with Nutcracker Syndrome and left renal vein hypertension, in one study with a 100% rate apparently. Some researchers suggest that Nutcracker Syndrome is highly underdiagnosed.

Here is one such study: Varicocele and nutcracker syndrome: sonographic findings. - PubMed - NCBI

A citation from an analysis:

Varicoceles almost always occur on the left side and affect up to 9.5% of men. Considering the frequency of incompetency or absence of spermatic vein valves, Zerhouni et al25 contend that this finding is irrelevant and that LRV hypertension is the usual cause of varicoceles. The LRV was compressed in 50% to 100% of all patients with varicocele,8,60 although not all patients with varicocele have a distended LRV.10,37

Source:
Nutcracker Phenomenon and Nutcracker Syndrome

Now this condition seems quite terrifying, and seems to be the cause of varicocele in quite some men possibly. What would your comments be on this condition, perhaps on the causes, and what could possibly be done for it in terms of reverting/treating it if this is even possible? What could be a possible explanation of its development from a biological point of view?

Addendum: I might add that nutcracker syndrome (NCS) results most commonly from the compression of the left renal vein between the abdominal aorta (AA) and superior mesenteric artery (SMA), although other variants exist.[1][2] Source: Nutcracker syndrome - Wikipedia

RP:

Me: Thanks a bunch! This information is really invaluable. I have read before that you recommended succinic acid to safely chelate heavy metals. What dose would you consider as a proper dose, and how much should be taken a day?

Also, I have found that malic acid is very useful for my brain fog and forgetfulness. I have now ordered specifically L-malic acid which is natural, as I was afraid that my product was synthetic, as in D-malic acid. What do you think of malic acid, and is it advisable to stick to the natural L-malic acid form? Also, wouldn't malic acid have a tendency in the body to chelate beneficial minerals like magnesium and calcium?

RP:

Me:
Thanks! What would you suggest to improve digestion? Also, there are 2 studies showing Cascara Sagrada is toxic to the liver and causing portal hypertension in the second study. The portal hypertension case was an individual with past alcoholism and was on prescription drugs during the study,m though, I have read elsewhere:

Https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11151906/
Https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19925744/

Is Cascara Sagrada safe? And what would you advice for episodes of hives in a woman in her 50s? And what would be advisable for olanzapine induced thrombosis in a leg in a man in his 50s? (Mother and father) and also, what could be considered useful for borderline personality disorder? (Father and brother)

RP:

Me:
peaking of the thyroid, do you recommend sodium selenite as safe? Since it is pro-oxidative, but it is included in alot of selenium supplements. What sort of selenium supplement would you recommend? And at what dose? Also, is low dose iodine supplementation as potassium iodide recommended? (150mcg taken on some days)

RP:

Me: *Asking for advice on the use of bio-identical progesterone for a 56 years old female relative*

RP:

Me: *Asking about safety of exposure to chemical solvents*

RP:


Me: *Asking if bald spots could be due to the use of high dosed niacinamide for 56 years old female relative*

RP:

Me: *Asking about certainty of vitamin E's ability to dissolve blood clots in regards to leg thrombosis for male 57 years old relative with history of leg thrombosis and pulmonary embolism, and overweight, smoker and bad health overall*

RP:

Note by me on last quote, aspirin has a pro-thrombotic rebound effect when usage is stopped, I have not inquired Ray Peat about this, but it was demonstrated in a big animal study.

 

[Zucker]

I have had veins stripped and spider veins injected at an age when I did not know better. It does not solve the underlying problem. Now in my 60ies the health of my micro circulation and connective tissue is much better than when I was in my 40ies and veins and spider veins are a lot less visible. As others said, improving metabolism is key. I also found ozone a great help for this and baths with hydrogen peroxide. But I do not think this to be a peaty solution to the problem

 

[A-Tim]

There's a good chance you will need to manage the symptoms until you kick the bucket. The good news is, in the space of all possible health issues, it's not so bad. The bad news is, you will probably want to make some life adjustments. All the standard lifestyle changes apply - better diet, movement, sunlight, stress management etc.

If you are at the stage where you need surgical treatment, see a specialist/surgeon who is experienced. Some countries have a lot of half arsed people willing to treat you. The Whiteley Clinic, led by Mark Whiteley tends to pioneer the latest surgical treatments. His site has good information for a smart layperson.

If the specialist doesn't do an ultrasound scan first, prior to any intervention, to see what's going on, find someone else. This is best practice.

Movement is very important. If you are in a job where you stand in one spot, you will need to change jobs. If you sit all day, consider something like the Levus Workstation. I have one and it helps with my varicose veins a lot. It is expensive, but if it slows the rate at which your veins worsen, you'll probably make the money back from surgeries avoided, let alone the quality of life improvements.

 

[fevronia]

Try horsechestnut and butchers broom. Nature's Way makes a good one as an option.

Thanks for sharing! I will look into this.

 

[fevronia]

After passing through capillary vessels in the extremities the pressure to return blood to the heart is very low. Venous return is facilitated by pumps in the foot and calf, and valves in the calf veins. Exercise like walking and stair climbing or stair stepper actuate the pumps.

Thanks for your comment. Do you think working out once per day in this manner would be sufficient? I do a lot of sitting at work. I am wondering about buying a jump rope.

 

[fevronia]

This is another exchange with Peat on that mattter

Thank you, these are very helpful to say the least! It is starting to make sense regarding my health issues. Hypothyroidism with slow transit that I have been trying to correct for years. I have come a long way since the start, but still have some digestive issues that come and go. I will refocus on that piece.

 

[fevronia]

I have had veins stripped and spider veins injected at an age when I did not know better. It does not solve the underlying problem. Now in my 60ies the health of my micro circulation and connective tissue is much better than when I was in my 40ies and veins and spider veins are a lot less visible. As others said, improving metabolism is key. I also found ozone a great help for this and baths with hydrogen peroxide. But I do not think this to be a peaty solution to the problem

I’m sorry you went through that, but glad to hear you have improved your circulation and connective tissue health. That gives me hope! :). I would be interested to hear more details regarding any of your treatments. How much hydrogen peroxide do you use and how does it help? Thank you.

 

[GTW]

Thanks for your comment. Do you think working out once per day in this manner would be sufficient? I do a lot of sitting at work. I am wondering about buying a jump rope.

Contraction of the calf muscles actuates that pump. Any exercise with calves does it. Could be isometric sitting in a chair. The effect isn't in proportion to aerobic demand.

 

[A-Tim]

I have had veins stripped and spider veins injected at an age when I did not know better. It does not solve the underlying problem. Now in my 60ies the health of my micro circulation and connective tissue is much better than when I was in my 40ies and veins and spider veins are a lot less visible. As others said, improving metabolism is key. I also found ozone a great help for this and baths with hydrogen peroxide. But I do not think this to be a peaty solution to the problem

Could you please say more about the ozone treatment and the hydrogen peroxide bath treatment? If you found it helpful I will look into it more - but I know absolutely nothing about either of these two options.

 

[Zucker]

Could you please say more about the ozone treatment and the hydrogen peroxide bath treatment? If you found it helpful I will look into it more - but I know absolutely nothing about either of these two options.

Hi, I had ozone applied at the health practitioner. My blood was drawn, the ozone is mixed into it and it may also be exposed to UV light before being re-injected. There are many other ways of introducing ozone in many different concentrations according to symptoms. It needs an experienced practitioner. Many people have their at home units and bag their limbs to expose them to the ozone gas. This needs extensive knowledge with the subject but is more cost cost effective.
The hydrogen peroxide baths I do twice weekly. It is something I can do myself at home. But please also familiarise yourself with this subject, There are extensive online resources available. As people here said, improving metabolism , avoiding PUFAs and exercise are key foremost. I exercise daily and walk the dogs for two hours. So that factor should not be under-estimated and the healing involves different modalities and time. For me the venous insufficiency was hereditary, so I knew I had to take care. Good healing.

 

[A-Tim]

Hi, I had ozone applied at the health practitioner. My blood was drawn, the ozone is mixed into it and it may also be exposed to UV light before being re-injected. There are many other ways of introducing ozone in many different concentrations according to symptoms. It needs an experienced practitioner. Many people have their at home units and bag their limbs to expose them to the ozone gas. This needs extensive knowledge with the subject but is more cost cost effective.
The hydrogen peroxide baths I do twice weekly. It is something I can do myself at home. But please also familiarise yourself with this subject, There are extensive online resources available. As people here said, improving metabolism , avoiding PUFAs and exercise are key foremost. I exercise daily and walk the dogs for two hours. So that factor should not be under-estimated and the healing involves different modalities and time. For me the venous insufficiency was hereditary, so I knew I had to take care. Good healing.

Thanks Zucker - I'll have a bit more of a gander into hydrogen peroxide baths.