The High Serotonin Personality

[LUH 3417]

Not really. You can have those feelings without having those feelings govern you, if that makes sense? In the past, when I express being "sad' I would actually mean I would obsess over it, get depressed etc. Now it's like OK I acknowledge the feeling but it doesn't affect me as harshly.

I did indeed use to be authoritative with him to try to get him to turn around, I've since acknowledged that he's gonna do his own thing and there's nothing I can do about it so I don't these days.

Yes I definitely understand. I feel like I am in a similar process. Now I can get angry and let the anger flow thru me - feel it in my body and rant and curse while I’m taking a walk or jumping on a trampoline or whatever - but then i feel the feeling and it’s felt and acknowledged. I can be available to feel other feelings for the rest of the day now that I’ve recognized and accepted my anger and expressed it (hopefully in a non destructive way!). At some points I would get angry and stay angry constantly and carry it with me wherever I went.

 

[LUH 3417]

I still have a problem with being authoritative though. I think since this newfound emotional intuneness I am critical of people who are less “intune” and I haven’t yet developed enough compassion to empathetically listen to people when they are angry, nasty, sad, etc.

 

[Cirion]

Yeah one thing with the anger I have noticed too is that when you're high enough serotonin that positive people actually ANGER you. I've been there, and it's not a pleasant place. I'd be angry at something then someone would crack a joke and I'd get pissed off at them "How can you be laughing right now??" and it'd be something stupid that I'd be angry at too, lol.

I do still have some authoritative issues with my mom, that's the last nut I have to crack. Now she does sometimes frustrate me (gotten better about it tho) because she is big into health also, but we disagree harshly on a few things lol. (She is not sold on sugar)

 

[LUH 3417]

Yeah one thing with the anger I have noticed too is that when you're high enough serotonin that positive people actually ANGER you. I've been there, and it's not a pleasant place. I'd be angry at something then someone would crack a joke and I'd get pissed off at them "How can you be laughing right now??" and it'd be something stupid that I'd be angry at too, lol.

I do still have some authoritative issues with my mom, that's the last nut I have to crack. Now she does sometimes frustrate me (gotten better about it tho) because she is big into health also, but we disagree harshly on a few things lol. (She is not sold on sugar)

Yes, when misinterpreting everything through the lens of your own paranoia/suspicion/distrust so that even an actually good honest person could only be out to get you. Not a fun time.

 

[Regina]

Yeah one thing with the anger I have noticed too is that when you're high enough serotonin that positive people actually ANGER you. I've been there, and it's not a pleasant place. I'd be angry at something then someone would crack a joke and I'd get pissed off at them "How can you be laughing right now??" and it'd be something stupid that I'd be angry at too, lol.

I do still have some authoritative issues with my mom, that's the last nut I have to crack. Now she does sometimes frustrate me (gotten better about it tho) because she is big into health also, but we disagree harshly on a few things lol. (She is not sold on sugar)

Yeah, I think high serotonin people get aggressively pissed off at happy people. High serotonin females want to gut and annihilate my happiness. It nauseates them. Seething resentment at others non-threatening content.

 

[Cirion]

Yeah, what can you do I suppose? If they want help, they'll reach out is the policy I've adopted now. Unsolicited help rarely is helpful for either party involved.

Unfortunately I have learned the hard way that we must actively guard our health by avoiding unhealthy people (as much as we can) because as you say, they tend to want to bring you down, which is exactly what happened to me last year, and I'm picking up the pieces as a result of not having better boundaries.

Just about all of my relatives are in moderate to severe state of unhealth, but virtually none of them care to do anything about it but take meds. I for one will never touch 99% of meds. After taking the "red pill" it's impossible to justify taking a statin, many vaccines, etc...

I guess I am fortunate that despite being unhealthy 90% of my life I've had brief stints where I felt AMAZING so I know its doable and I know the stark contrast between health and unhealth through personal experience.

I think a lot of unhealthy people haven't experienced true health and how much better it is and thus have a hard time motivating themselves. Or think its "just getting old".

 

[Whichway?]

When I used to post on anabolic men forums there was this guy that said he went from just an every day grunt to a CEO of a company from optimizing his hormones.

Did he tell you how he optimized his hormones?

 

[Cirion]

Did he tell you how he optimized his hormones?

Unfortunately, I really can't recall all the details. The forums went down soon after I started posting there (Probably because a lot of spam posters they couldn't deal with, so they decided to shut down the forums instead).

That said, we all know there is no magic miracle cure other than get everything right (sunlight, diet, sleep etc) so I don't know that he would have necessarily had any major epiphanies we haven't heard before. All I do remember him saying is he just applied everything he learned on their website and from other people. From what I recall they basically held most of the tenants that RP also holds (low pufa, decent amount of SFA's, at least maintenance calories, sugar not being the devil, etc....)

I'm thankful for that forum for as short as it was up, because it was them that ultimately actually led me to RP.

 

[Makrosky]

One thing I am feeling lately is it may not be the most conducive to personal growth to see people through the lens of their faults. It makes you feel like you’re in a constant game of one upping others, and you know what’s better for them, because you are better than them, which is the hallmark of authoritarianism.

I agree 100%. I also have had that insight many times. What you describe is a very unhealthy perspective at the end of the day, even if you think you are healthier than the others. Sometimes you can't escape though. Maybe it is ourselves justifying ourselves dor our strange diets, supps and life style habits.

 

[johnwester130]

I agree 100%. I also have had that insight many times. What you describe is a very unhealthy perspective at the end of the day, even if you think you are healthier than the others. Sometimes you can't escape though. Maybe it is ourselves justifying ourselves dor our strange diets, supps and life style habits.

Do you think Brazil, Thailand and Australia demonstrate low serotonin personalities ?

 

[Mito]

There is no direct test for serotonin as far as I know, only 5-HIAA, which doesn't necessarily show you how much serotonin is in your brain.
Another, probably better, measure for serotonin is prolactin. Did you have that tested too?

Does whole blood serotonin tell us anything useful?

 

[lampofred]

Does whole blood serotonin tell us anything useful?

Strongly associated w heart disease and Type A personality

 

[TheBeard]

I was inspired to research and write a bit about how serotonin affects the personality and how it would make people behave. Keep in mind that not everyone with high serotonin will have all these traits, but only some of them, and that there are basically two major serotonin personalities, but I'll be discussing it in the article. Enjoy and please leave a comment.

----------------
The High Serotonin Personality
Serotonin is a complicated neurotransmitter that, contrary to other neurotransmitters, has an influence on everything in the body. It's currently believed to aid in anxiety, depression, impatience, impulsiveness, anger, etc. One of the main reasons for this is that the metabolite of serotonin, 5-HIAA, is low in people with these symptoms. The research is thus based on an assumption that brain serotonin is low, because 5-HIAA is low. However, low 5-HIAA is actually a sign that very little serotonin is being broken down and that there is actually an excess of serotonin in the brain.

There are mainly three ways that serotonin can become elevated in the brain, firstly through an increase in its synthesis via tryptophan hydroxylase 2 (TPH2), secondly by reduced monoamine oxidase A function (MAO-A breaks down serotonin) and thirdly, by a decrease in SERT (serotonin transporter) function.

Elevated TPH, and low MAO-A and SERT activity will lead to elevated serotonin. This article is not specific to discuss if serotonin is the good or bad guy and why, but here I describe the personality trait someone with high serotonin might have. Keep in mind that serotonin is rarely, if ever, elevated on its own, but most likely in conjunction with estrogen, cortisol, histamine, prostaglandins, nitric oxide, prolactin, glutamate, etc. So many of the personality trait of serotonin can be due to elevated glutamate or cortisol for example, because serotonin potentiates the release of those hormones. But to lower cortisol or glutamate directly will help a bit, but will not fix the condition, because serotonin is the root cause of it and if it's not kept in rein, lowering cortisol or glutamate will not help much.



Here are some of the most common high serotonin personality traits:

• Tiredness/lethargy, easily tired and even chronic fatigue syndrome (due to elevated 5-HT2A receptor) (1, 2).
  • Inhibiting TPH prevents this fatigue. However, serotonin isn't the only neurotransmitter involved in fatigue, but also cortisol, acetylcholine, noradrenaline, the serotonin:dopamine ratio, kynurenine pathway, etc.
• Overexcitation - ADD, ADHD, get distracted easily, anxiety, impulsivity, restlessness, overthinking, rumination, etc. (due to elevated 5-HT2A receptor) (3).
• Rigid thinking and mental inflexibility (4). Some studies actually say that activation of the 5-HT2A receptor (via psychedelics such as LSD, shrooms, etc.) reduce rigid thinking, but this is actually because it stimulates glutamate release, which then stimulates dopamine release via the NMDA receptor and dopamine is involved in creativity and flexible thinking (5). Plus, after psychedelics exposure, people usually feel a kind of "bliss" for a week or two afterward, and this is due to 5-HT2A downregulation.
• Depressed, sadness, feeling down, reduced desire to do other things like go out and have fun, social anxiety and withdrawal, etc. (6, 7, 8)
• Reduced cognitive function (not necessarily lack of knowledge, but intuitive thinking) (9). However, they might think they are smart and have all the answers in a very authoritative way.
• Narcissistic (10) - delusions of grandeur, fantasize about power, exaggerated sense of self-importance, requiring constant admiration, etc.
• Reduced senses (sensory perception) - anhedonia, apathy, reduced smell, hearing, taste, sensation, euphoria to music, etc. (11, 12)
• Overly analytical, with a negative bias (13).
• Sinical, negative, doesn't look at the bright side of life (14).
• Feel "icky" - often just want to be left alone.
• Non-assertive - rather rude and aggressive dominate, which might come over as assertiveness, but is totally the opposite (5-HT2C is inversely correlated with assertiveness) (15). As Philosopher Eric Hoffer said: “Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.” (16)
• OCD (5-HT2C activation increases compulsivity and lowers dopamine and noradrenaline) (17, 18, 19).
• Aversive, passive-aggressive, but can also be full-on aggressive and violent (20).
• Don't care about the consequences of wrong decisions. This can also be due to low dopamine (place less weight upon the magnitude of bad outcomes) (21). Life feels like a joke or means nothing.
• Anticipation anxiety, enhanced anticipation of, and sensitivity to threat-related stimuli, punishment, and negative feedback (22).
• Emotionally unstable - very sensitive to emotional triggers (feels like you have to walk on eggs around the person), get easily triggered emotionally due to a traumatic experience with someone in the past, emotional and argumentive about their beliefs and views, etc. (23, 24)
• Bullying - this is usually due to trauma early on in life of being abused, either mentally or physically themselves and now they do it to others.
• Reduced verbal fluency, memory, attention, planning ability, and psychomotor performance (25, 26, 27, 28). However, estrogen and serotonin promote the desire to talk, thus people with high estrogen and serotonin talk a lot.
• Fearful - scared of losing, low confidence and assertiveness.
• Futile patience (keep on waiting to receive something, even if it's improbable or irrational) and obedient (due to not wanting to rock the boat, scared, "zombified", not questioning things, etc.) (29, 30).
• Suicidal - thoughts and even attempts (31, 32, 33).
• Delirious (34).
• Mood swings - bipolar mania (35, 36). Antagonism of 5-HT2A (which lowers excess glutamate) and the histamine receptor H1 and agonism of the 5-HT1A receptor (which lowers serotonin) helps.
• Easily agitated, argumentative, violent, aggressive, intermittent explosive disorder (37, 38).
• Psychopathic behavior (39).
• Non-likable - It is shown that males find high serotonin females less attractive and act more aggressive towards them (40). However, high serotonin people do attract others that are similar to them (who also have elevated serotonin).

People with high serotonin will obviously not always have the exact same personality traits; so you might know someone who has some or a lot of the traits but not all of them. This is because of a difference in receptor expressions, as well as other hormones, which levels vary between people.

But in general, people with high serotonin have low dopamine and are prone to being unstable, negative, make decision and cognitive errors, pessimistic (can also have a lot of fake confidence and be overly (fake) optimistic), leach on other people's energy, have the answers to everything, are overly logical as opposed to creative, want people to feel sorry for them, depressed, irritating and truly annoying, passive-aggressive/up-in-your-face aggressive, enjoy picking on people to make themselves look or feel better, think highly of themselves (but deep inside are highly insecure and lash out if any insecurity is exposed), can't take it to be wrong, etc, etc, etc.

To sum it up even shorter, there are mainly two serotonin personalities, one that is up-in-your-face aggressive, dominant (not calm and assertive), narcissistic, authoritative and controlling, and the other one is more of a weak, depressed, anxious, socially isolated (feel sorry for me), personality, or a combination of both ("two-faced", split personality etc.).

Crazy how I recognize myself in almost all of these traits.

I have been like that for the past 2 years trying to eat paleo. I think my mood used to be far better when I didn't know anything about "health" and ate almost everything anytime.

Now I want to punch happy people in the face, I am passive aggressive with almost everyone, supper unstable, and I snap at people for the slighest things.

The depressing part is that coffee prevents me from sleeping, even just one in the morning. I wish I could have caffeine without insomnia, because it makes me a much more likable person.

What other options than caffeine do I have to increase dopamine without creating a tolerance?

 

[Perseus]

I am confused by this post, because I recognise myself a lot in the personality description... but the thing is, in my mind I had serotonin labelled as a sort of "feel good" hormone and I believed that it was my lack of it -- not an excess of it -- that caused my personality traits (high neuroticism, low industriousness, low extraversion, sometimes aggressive behaviour, etc.).

Thus I have been taking L-tryptophan in an attempt to correct what I assumed was low serotonin levels; according to this post, my symptoms should have worsened, yet it went exactly as I had envisioned it: I am less depressed than I used to be and I sleep better ever since taking tryptophan every night before bed.

What am I supposed to think? This is all very confusing to me.

 

[Makrosky]

Do you think Brazil, Thailand and Australia demonstrate low serotonin personalities ?

Hey buddy,

Well, I think this whole "serotonin personality" thing is an extremely simplified thing. Even when we in the forum say "serotonin symptoms"...well... I really doubt we can talk with precision. It could be many things and we have created something like a "consensus" in the board of what things can be considered serotonin. It is very simplistic albeit useful. It works and I also go by that. So extrapolating that to the countries you mentioned... honestly, I don't know.

Thailand people is difficult to read because it is a very different culture and they behave very differently with "falangs" (foreigners) than between them.

Brazil is huge and has more than 100 million people... I think white rich people from Sao Paulo has not much in common with indigenous people from Manaos or Afro descendants from Salvador de Bahia. Brazilians are generally warm and friendly but another brazilian next to them can shoot you in your face just to rob you a pair of flip-flops. You know what I mean ? Impossible to generalize. Culture is not mediated exclusively by serotonin receptors, that idea is ridiculous. In fact I think it is the opposite, it is culture who make us believe people's personality is because of serotonin receptors.

But if I had to go by "clichés" and stereotypes, I would say yes, Brazil and Thailand are "low serotonin" personalities.

Australia I have never been there.

Why do you ask anyway ?

Cheers

Edit : And now that I keep thinking about it more... the "Serotonin type personality" described by Hans looks to me it is the typical neurotical person from 1st world rich countries, dense urban areas, high to semi-high qualified jobs, etc.. I think it is impossible to find that personality in undevelopped countries or rural areas.

 

[Hans]

Does whole blood serotonin tell us anything useful?

Not what is going on in the brain no, because blood serotonin doesn't cross the blood brain barrier, except if it's "leaky" due to excess nitric oxide.

 

[Hans]

Crazy how I recognize myself in almost all of these traits.

I have been like that for the past 2 years trying to eat paleo. I think my mood used to be far better when I didn't know anything about "health" and ate almost everything anytime.

Now I want to punch happy people in the face, I am passive aggressive with almost everyone, supper unstable, and I snap at people for the slighest things.

The depressing part is that coffee prevents me from sleeping, even just one in the morning. I wish I could have caffeine without insomnia, because it makes me a much more likable person.

What other options than caffeine do I have to increase dopamine without creating a tolerance?

Just be sure to keep inflammation low and glycogen stores full the whole time would help a lot. Also if you think you might have excess cortisol (blood sugar problems, anger, frustration, midsection fat, etc.) also focus on lowering that.
Cocoa, aspirin, camomile tea, theanine, etc. (Other dopamine and GABA agonists) might be a good alternative to caffeine.

Maybe you have sluggish liver function and struggle to metabolize caffeine, or maybe you're genetically a slow caffeine metabolizer?

 

[Hans]

Edit : And now that I keep thinking about it more... the "Serotonin type personality" described by Hans looks to me it is the typical neurotical person from 1st world rich countries, dense urban areas, high to semi-high qualified jobs, etc.. I think it is impossible to find that personality in undevelopped countries or rural areas.

There are high serotonin psychopaths everywhere in the world. It's due to how they were raised, how they responded and dealt with trauma, their current lifestyle and how they choose to behave. This is both in 3rd and 1st world countries alike, and can even be more so in 3rd world countries because they experience more trauma.
People can choose how they behave, but it's usually way too difficult for people to behave correctly with values and standards/morals, so they just surrender to their "personality" and inflict pain, suffering and misery in other people's lives.

 

[Makrosky]

There are high serotonin psychopaths everywhere in the world. It due to how they were raised, how they responded and dealt with trauma, and their current lifestyle and how they choose to behave. This is both in 3d and 1st world countries alike.
People can choose how they behave, but it's way to difficult for people to behave correctly with values and morals, so they just surrender to their "personality" and inflict pain, suffer and misery in other peoples lives.

Well, of course this people is everywhere. Psychopathy is not exclusively mediated by serotonin anyway, otherwise psychiatrists would have used serotonin antagonists for a long time for treating that. Or for people in prisons, etc. They are not stupid.

Btw, I should have used "much more hard to find" than "impossible to find" anyway.

 

[firebreather]

There is no direct test for serotonin as far as I know, only 5-HIAA, which doesn't necessarily show you how much serotonin is in your brain.
Another, probably better, measure for serotonin is prolactin. Did you have that tested too?

Serotonin

Yes I've had my prolactin tested and a little below the mid range