What causes the feelings of having a crush on someone and having difficulty getting over an ex ? Is it just serotonin and oxytocin ?

K

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how do you know when you are in a low serotonin state? I thought serotonin itself causes that state of not caring about anything?

the not being able to get over an ex could be due to excess estrogen
could be due to the wrong type of relationship
the person not having other options

low serotonin should provide lots of motivation
You know when you're in a low serotonin state when people hate your guts.
 

Quelsatron

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Well I associate feelings of serotonin with the feelings I would get when I ate an apple -

An excitation state, high-inhibition (more self-conscious about what others think of me), concerned and overtly prepared for my own future, not feeling calm at all and it feels difficult to have a comfortable flow in conversion

I associate the feelings of low serotonin when I drink a coke or take K2 for example -

I feel relaxed, Low-inhibition (don't care what others think of me), am comfortable talking to anyone even with strangers, I am a lot more friendly and am a lot better with conversing with people, I am not overtly concerned about anything and feel that everything in my life will work itself out, I describe this state as serene calmness vs the excitation state I described above
I assume it's the feeling I got after eating several bananas. Instead of "hot-headed", I felt "normal".

I mean sure, we can all theorize about what is going on, but how do you really know you are in that state? You might as well be high adrenaline or satiated on sugar or flooded by k2 itself or any number of yet discovered chemical balances. With bananas, how much serotonin is even in a banana? Does it remotely compare to the background gut level? I'm currently running under redsuns theory of high/low histamine so I'm also doing the same thing, but I've been disappointed too many times to be so certain about it. I think the only way to really identify for example a high serotonin state is to take pharmaceutical grade (anti)serotonergics, where you know that you are now scientifically proven to be high serotonin, and then use that as reference, and that's still pretty rule of thumb. Sorry to be a party pooper.
 
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JamesGatz

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You know when you're in a low serotonin state when people hate your guts.
Hahaha exactly - when I am low-serotonin I would always joke around with people and would notice that people in a higher serotonin state would genuinely get upset or have an aggressive response like they would say "Why are you always talking sh**?!" and stuff like that even though in my mind I am just playing around - when I joke around with a low-serotonin person they reciprocate and joke around with me as well and it's like we can talk and joke with just about anything
 

FitnessMike

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well, i always tell myself that its all about survival, we struggle leaving exes because its a lower chance to pass on your genes and a lower chance for survival in general.
 
K

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I mean sure, we can all theorize about what is going on, but how do you really know you are in that state? You might as well be high adrenaline or satiated on sugar or flooded by k2 itself or any number of yet discovered chemical balances. With bananas, how much serotonin is even in a banana? Does it remotely compare to the background gut level? I'm currently running under redsuns theory of high/low histamine so I'm also doing the same thing, but I've been disappointed too many times to be so certain about it. I think the only way to really identify for example a high serotonin state is to take pharmaceutical grade (anti)serotonergics, where you know that you are now scientifically proven to be high serotonin, and then use that as reference, and that's still pretty rule of thumb. Sorry to be a party pooper.
There's about 15 mcg of serotonin in a gram of banana.

Taking substances such as LSD, lisuride, tianeptine, and caffeine can clue you in on what a low serotonin state feels like.

I tried them as well as 5-HTP in the past. The banana blues could be something different, but serotonin explains the feeling I get.

Hahaha exactly - when I am low-serotonin I would always joke around with people and would notice that people in a higher serotonin state would genuinely get upset or have an aggressive response like they would say "Why are you always talking sh**?!" and stuff like that even though in my mind I am just playing around - when I joke around with a low-serotonin person they reciprocate and joke around with me as well and it's like we can talk and joke with just about anything
That probably explains why you get along with people smoking cigs.
 

Arclight

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Well I associate feelings of serotonin with the feelings I would get when I ate an apple -

An excitation state, high-inhibition (more self-conscious about what others think of me), concerned and overtly prepared for my own future, not feeling calm at all and it feels difficult to have a comfortable flow in conversation

I associate the feelings of low serotonin when I drink a coke or take K2 for example -

I feel relaxed, Low-inhibition (don't care what others think of me), am comfortable talking to anyone even with strangers, I am a lot more friendly and am a lot better with conversing with people, I am not overtly concerned about anything and feel that everything in my life will work itself out, I describe this state as serene calmness vs the excitation state I described above
I was on SSRI’s at a pretty young age and stayed on them for several years. Now I’ve been off of them for many years. While the difference is palpable to me, many other things have affected my body and soul during this time as well. On SSRI’s I surely noticed negative side effects. But taking a medication that puts you in a ”high serotonin state” doesn’t necessarily result in a totally monotone mindset that makes you care or not care about love or crushes etc, and doesn’t mean your mind can’t change in different directions, or be strongly affected by things other than just serotonin.

There are thousands, perhaps millions of variables that can affect the way you interact with the world. While I was on SSRI’s I had lots of crushes, fell in love, felt very angry sometimes, and very mellow sometimes. I sometimes felt detached from people, and sometimes also very attached to others. Likewise, off the SSRI’s I have also experienced a vast array of differing sensations and perspectives on the world.

You describe a low serotonin state and a high serotonin state in complex detail, and these states also driving you to lead totally different lives. You also claim that you can feel yourself shift into one of these very complex outlooks on life by eating an apple. Do you measure your serum or tissue serotonin? Or do you go by symtoms? I for myself can have very different reactions eating the same food, depending on other variables that day.

Serotonin like other hormones is obviously affecting our behaviour and mood, but I also look around me and I see people of all sorts who eat apples, or who's doing other things that theoretically would manipulate their serotonin levels, and who still interact fundamentally different with the world.

Imo there is just so much more than just serotonin that will affect your views on love, people around you, and your will to interact with them on different levels. Climate, which season it is, your age, childhood experiences, if you are rich or poor, your role models and interests, the list of non hormonal things that affects your mindset on a daily basis goes on and on. And while all of these things can affect your hormones as well, and serotonin surely is one piece of the puzzle to a persons mood and outlook, I'm very convinced that a person can shift swiftly between the states that you describe above without any dramatic shifts in tissue serotonin.
 
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Razvan

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Well I associate feelings of serotonin with the feelings I would get when I ate an apple -

An excitation state, high-inhibition (more self-conscious about what others think of me), concerned and overtly prepared for my own future, not feeling calm at all and it feels difficult to have a comfortable flow in conversation

I associate the feelings of low serotonin when I drink a coke or take K2 for example -

I feel relaxed, Low-inhibition (don't care what others think of me), am comfortable talking to anyone even with strangers, I am a lot more friendly and am a lot better with conversing with people, I am not overtly concerned about anything and feel that everything in my life will work itself out, I describe this state as serene

calmness vs the excitation state I described above
Yes ,fruits like apple high and fiber and low in sugar can give this state. Mushrooms have the opposite effect ,one of the best foods to feel that "low serotonin " state.
 

Razvan

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What do you take to raise dopamine and lower serotonin?
Organic natural tobacco, coffe or redbull with aspirin and low fiber diet,dhea and upping glucose oxidation with thyroid and or B3 ( while eating enough carbs ) gives you high D2 and low serotonin. Also PTH plays a role in this but some people can't digest dairy good and it gives them the opposite effect from the high opioids.
 
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Razvan

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You can feel the high D2 effect when during the day you see the light very clearly and you see every detail, awareness increases and you can track every moment during a walk. Almost like you can move your eyes in slow motion,you can pay attention to everything. I see a lot of people that when they walk they are anxious and they can't see all details ,they are inhibited. In this shitty people are getting much more unhealthy and you can notice more and more people behaving like this also paired with low hormones,they don't have the courage to even make eye contact .
 

AndrogenicJB

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Organic natural tobacco, coffe or redbull with aspirin and low fiber diet,dhea and upping glucose oxidation with thyroid and or B3 ( while eating enough carbs ) gives you high D2 and low serotonin. Also PTH plays a role in this but some people can't digest dairy good and it gives them the opposite effect from the high opioids.
What are the benefits of red bull, how much b3 do you take and with how much carbs in a meal --- if you take b3 with a meal of carbs, sat fat and protein will it stop the benefits of the fats since b3 inhibits fao
 
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JamesGatz

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Great thread. These kind of discussions a fascinate me; even though they may seem reductionist.

Have you ever used oxytocin?
Haha yea I always expect people to disagree and lay out the case for why I am wrong but I like it as well - it opens the floor for discussion rather than having a thread where everyone agrees

I have not but I do see many say there is a tri-fecta going on when you have a crush - a surge of dopamine, serotonin, and oxytocin - but yet when your crush "Breaks the heart" for lack of a better word I think to myself why does this happen ? When I raise dopamine and serotonin alone and come back down I don't feel heartbroken - Which made me think of oxytocin possibly being a player here - especially since it seems to have some noticeable structural effects on serotonin - I wondered that if a break-up or the girl getting with someone else maybe does something with oxytocin that messes with serotonin and sends the body into a nightmare downstream - I have seen many girls in my lifetime cry after a break-up and they say your tears are filled with stress hormones - I think it is valuable to have a discussion that seeks to answer "Why?"
 

FitnessMike

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Taking substances such as LSD, lisuride, tianeptine, and caffeine can clue you in on what a low serotonin state feels like.
ever since i restarted drinking coffee, i often have this feeling like i care less for little petty things, i care less about things i should care less about, kinda more confident and relaxed i guess.

I thought that it's probably due to caffeine increasing test and maybe general levels of stress, but maybe it is lower serotonin hmmmmm
 

Jib

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PSSD gives some insights. The 5HT1A receptor is likely a major culprit. PSSD = post SSRI sexual dysfunction, though antipsychotics like Abilify/Rexulti can also cause it by their major effect on the 5HT1A serotonin receptor.

Along with permanent severe premature ejaculation from Rexulti, my feelings about love/relationships have also completely changed. I find it impossible to have romantic feelings at all in any capacity. Jealousy, crushes, desire, missing someone -- all gone.

The effects appear to be permanent. It's interesting to me that all these intense emotions simply vanished. I'm still able to feel anger and sadness but all romantic feelings simply don't exist for me any more at all.

It's anyone's guess what the extreme 5HT1A agonism did. You'd expect downregulating of the receptor, but that would imply ED and genital numbness, not premature ejaculation that implies hyper activity of the receptor.

These things are extremely complex. There are more factors at play than just serotonin, surely -- however, you may be onto something. 5HT1A serotonin receptor and possibly 5HT2C and Dopamine D2 -- all of which Rexulti affects -- may be at play too.

But your explanation of your experience sounds normal to me. Perhaps it's normal to have some ebb and flow like that. Serotonin is very powerful. But what affects the sensitivity of the receptors? Perhaps that's a good question too.

How your brain transmitters and receptors interact with serotonin may be more important than the amount or availability of serotonin itself. What modulates these receptors is a matter of interest. It's interesting to see in people like me that directly manipulating specific receptors has permanent effects on how the brain deals with these neurotransmitters.
 
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There are thousands, perhaps millions of variables that can affect the way you interact with the world. While I was on SSRI’s I had lots of crushes, fell in love, felt very angry sometimes, and very mellow sometimes. I sometimes felt detached from people, and sometimes also very attached to others. Likewise, off the SSRI’s I have also experienced a vast array of differing sensations and perspectives on the world.
How long have you been on meds? I did experience the same effects as you describe but it didn't last long. I strongly believe that SSRI not only raises serotonin, but also dopamine and GABA. I remember that my pulse was always 50, nothing could scare me and it increased a lot my verbal fluency. Also, it was way easier to show emotions and open to people because I couldn't feel anxiety or fear. This is was for about 2-3 months, then everything collapsed and I started to feel very numb and lifeless, most probably because I became dopamine and GABA resistant and serotonin was still high.
Also, after the first months I started to destroy my relationship with my family without any repercussion. During those times I felt like a psycho.
 
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