The High Serotonin Personality

[Wagner83]

no, could you link it?

I hope you have grains of salt by your side:
Ashwagandha tolerance or withdrawal - Brain Health - LONGECITY
I'll link this one as well as I seemed to recall checking a larger thread than the first one in the past: Ashwagandha - a miracle herb - Brain Health - LONGECITY

 

[bboone]

I hope you have grains of salt by your side:
Ashwagandha tolerance or withdrawal - Brain Health - LONGECITY
I'll link this one as well as I seemed to recall checking a larger thread than the first one in the past: Ashwagandha - a miracle herb - Brain Health - LONGECITY

thank you

 

[JHAR]

This is something I've been thinking about for a long time. Thank you for posting about this.

I am coming to believe that a lot of these problems related to high serotonin are caused by the surrounding culture. In the United States, there is a culture that promotes excessive ambitions, the pursuit of wealth, and the pursuit of fame. These paths are known to cause unhappiness in the long run, but they are being promoted as a source for happiness and satisfaction. Because of this, a lot of people are stuck in dissatisfying career paths, but are not taking any steps to make things better. Also, people try to hoard as much money as they can while forgetting to live for the day. Seneca said it best when he argued that most people suffer because they do not know how to use the time in their life. They act as if their life will open up when they turn 60, but for now they pretend like they are not living.. Life is long, especially if you really do what you truly want to do. This does not mean one should be relentless and brutish in the pursuit of a career. But rather partake in enjoyable activities in a way that gives back some monetary return. It is far better to work in a restaurant and engage socially with other people than to work in a cubicle keeping up with a rat race.

I realized long ago that some people have excessive desires, and they want to pin those desires on you. Yet, many people secretly want very little. They want to enjoy the little things in life. They want to just be. Just walk for it's own sake. Eat a meal at an unregulated time. Sit down as if you have no where to go. That's at least how I felt. Life becomes incredibly rich. I discovered this when I went on vacation. The very prospect of returning to work would made me depressed, because I felt like my life was not how it should be. The only way I could be happy was by not taking long vacations anymore.

Ironically, I got into Peating, and lowering serotonin made me more depressed, because I knew how out 0f line my dreams were from what I truly wanted. I realized most of my dreams were fabricated from the culture I was in, and had nothing to do with what I truly wanted. I still remember what I dreamed about as a kid, and I realize how unconscious and free from influence they really were. As a kid, you just want little immediate things. You don't care for grand plans. I'd sit on the floor and draw sea mammals. And when I was done I'd forget about the paper I was drawing on. We live in a world that values goal oriented behavior, commitment, and continued return to the same place. Our bodies need variety and freedom, and our consciousness struggles to make peace with these conflicting needs. I think this is were this toxicity breeds.

The high serotonin state is largely a response to how unfulfilling our lives are. When most people struggle to fulfill their very minute needs(like moving around, exploring the environment, eating leisurely) they begin to imagine they need all these great things. Living according to those standards is futile. I left a very high paying job because I was becoming increasingly unhappy. Every bonus actually made me feel worse, because I knew this was really not what I wanted to do. Additionally, with each bonus I was committing more time to a place I didn't want to be in for a cause I didn't value. This perplexed a lot of people, including my family. They didn't understand why I was unhappy, but it is difficult to explain happiness to people who only value success and social status. I realize life is a lot more simple, and you need to give yourself time to breath. Most of my ambitions were fabricated by my environment. At times I had thoughts that I deserved better, or that some better opportunity existed. I also knew these "grand dreams" was my sub conscious begging me just get out of the current situation. I knew it was a false promise. I knew nothing better was waiting for me around the corner. But I also new that I was deeply unhappy, and only a grand vision for life was an "excuse" to get me out. I think the high serotonin is meant to free you, but most people remain stuck in the pursuit of these false goals, when they should have used it as a way out. (Once I stopped working at that job, I felt free and predictably, had no interest in pursuing that goal).

Another perplexing thing was the only way I could feel better at my job was doing things that were harmful long term. Eating fried foods, drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes and weed all seemed to help me "commit," but they also sedated my desire for life. Becoming healthier had the opposite effect, where I realized how much nonsense I seemed to tolerate, and how I was so out of touch with what I really wanted. I realized I could not be "healthy" in my current situation. It was too painful to be aware of my situation. Your senses do open up with health, and no amount of thinking could block the reality of my situation. I started saving money, and eventually quit.

I am slowly working on finding a way to improve my environment, and structure my life in a way that avoids poverty, and affords me plenty of time to just be. Whether that's playing music or drawing. Or spending hours walking through the woods. These are free activities that seem to give me more happiness than any paycheck in the world.

 

[tankasnowgod]

This is something I've been thinking about for a long time. Thank you for posting about this.

I am coming to believe that a lot of these problems related to high serotonin are caused by the surrounding culture. In the United States, there is a culture that promotes excessive ambitions, the pursuit of wealth, and the pursuit of fame. These paths are known to cause unhappiness in the long run, but they are being promoted as a source for happiness and satisfaction. Because of this, a lot of people are stuck in dissatisfying career paths, but are not taking any steps to make things better. Also, people try to hoard as much money as they can while forgetting to live for the day. Seneca said it best when he argued that most people suffer because they do not know how to use the time in their life. They act as if their life will open up when they turn 60, but for now they pretend like they are not living.. Life is long, especially if you really do what you truly want to do. This does not mean one should be relentless and brutish in the pursuit of a career. But rather partake in enjoyable activities in a way that gives back some monetary return. It is far better to work in a restaurant and engage socially with other people than to work in a cubicle keeping up with a rat race.

I realized long ago that some people have excessive desires, and they want to pin those desires on you. Yet, many people secretly want very little. They want to enjoy the little things in life. They want to just be. Just walk for it's own sake. Eat a meal at an unregulated time. Sit down as if you have no where to go. That's at least how I felt. Life becomes incredibly rich. I discovered this when I went on vacation. The very prospect of returning to work would made me depressed, because I felt like my life was not how it should be. The only way I could be happy was by not taking long vacations anymore.

Ironically, I got into Peating, and lowering serotonin made me more depressed, because I knew how out 0f line my dreams were from what I truly wanted. I realized most of my dreams were fabricated from the culture I was in, and had nothing to do with what I truly wanted. I still remember what I dreamed about as a kid, and I realize how unconscious and free from influence they really were. As a kid, you just want little immediate things. You don't care for grand plans. I'd sit on the floor and draw sea mammals. And when I was done I'd forget about the paper I was drawing on. We live in a world that values goal oriented behavior, commitment, and continued return to the same place. Our bodies need variety and freedom, and our consciousness struggles to make peace with these conflicting needs. I think this is were this toxicity breeds.

The high serotonin state is largely a response to how unfulfilling our lives are. When most people struggle to fulfill their very minute needs(like moving around, exploring the environment, eating leisurely) they begin to imagine they need all these great things. Living according to those standards is futile. I left a very high paying job because I was becoming increasingly unhappy. Every bonus actually made me feel worse, because I knew this was really not what I wanted to do. Additionally, with each bonus I was committing more time to a place I didn't want to be in for a cause I didn't value. This perplexed a lot of people, including my family. They didn't understand why I was unhappy, but it is difficult to explain happiness to people who only value success and social status. I realize life is a lot more simple, and you need to give yourself time to breath. Most of my ambitions were fabricated by my environment. At times I had thoughts that I deserved better, or that some better opportunity existed. I also knew these "grand dreams" was my sub conscious begging me just get out of the current situation. I knew it was a false promise. I knew nothing better was waiting for me around the corner. But I also new that I was deeply unhappy, and only a grand vision for life was an "excuse" to get me out. I think the high serotonin is meant to free you, but most people remain stuck in the pursuit of these false goals, when they should have used it as a way out. (Once I stopped working at that job, I felt free and predictably, had no interest in pursuing that goal).

Another perplexing thing was the only way I could feel better at my job was doing things that were harmful long term. Eating fried foods, drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes and weed all seemed to help me "commit," but they also sedated my desire for life. Becoming healthier had the opposite effect, where I realized how much nonsense I seemed to tolerate, and how I was so out of touch with what I really wanted. I realized I could not be "healthy" in my current situation. It was too painful to be aware of my situation. Your senses do open up with health, and no amount of thinking could block the reality of my situation. I started saving money, and eventually quit.

I am slowly working on finding a way to improve my environment, and structure my life in a way that avoids poverty, and affords me plenty of time to just be. Whether that's playing music or drawing. Or spending hours walking through the woods. These are free activities that seem to give me more happiness than any paycheck in the world.

I think you make some great overall points in your post, but I would challenge all the points I've bolded, at least to some degree.

First off, the average savings in the US is negative $1700. In other words, the average person has nothing saved, and is $1700 in debt. Debt slavery is far more stressful than having no debt.

When you say "These paths are known to cause unhappiness..." the question immediately arises "known to whom?"

And what ambitions are excessive? Is having a five bedroom house on an acre of land "excessive?" Maybe if you live in San Francisco or Manhattan. But if your a farmer in say Montana..... it's a very small amount of land.

I do think fame is mostly a shallow pursuit at this point..... but, I can understand people that want it for themselves. Truthfully, I don't see a whole lot of people pursuing true wealth..... I see them chasing the images of that wealth. In the US, we live in an unbacked fiat monetary system, with an inflationary currency. That system steals wealth and value from you every day.

And yes, those that think and plan ahead will always be rewarded in this world. Sadly, it's something the vast majority of people never do.

No doubt, there can be a lot of stress that comes with jobs that have really big salaries. But, there is also a lot of stress with jobs that have tiny salaries.

 

[milk_lover]

Taurine seems helpful in increasing SERT. Does that mean taurine help reduce serotonin personality? What about niacinamide?

 

[Runenight201]

This is something I've been thinking about for a long time. Thank you for posting about this.

I am coming to believe that a lot of these problems related to high serotonin are caused by the surrounding culture. In the United States, there is a culture that promotes excessive ambitions, the pursuit of wealth, and the pursuit of fame. These paths are known to cause unhappiness in the long run, but they are being promoted as a source for happiness and satisfaction. Because of this, a lot of people are stuck in dissatisfying career paths, but are not taking any steps to make things better. Also, people try to hoard as much money as they can while forgetting to live for the day. Seneca said it best when he argued that most people suffer because they do not know how to use the time in their life. They act as if their life will open up when they turn 60, but for now they pretend like they are not living.. Life is long, especially if you really do what you truly want to do. This does not mean one should be relentless and brutish in the pursuit of a career. But rather partake in enjoyable activities in a way that gives back some monetary return. It is far better to work in a restaurant and engage socially with other people than to work in a cubicle keeping up with a rat race.

I realized long ago that some people have excessive desires, and they want to pin those desires on you. Yet, many people secretly want very little. They want to enjoy the little things in life. They want to just be. Just walk for it's own sake. Eat a meal at an unregulated time. Sit down as if you have no where to go. That's at least how I felt. Life becomes incredibly rich. I discovered this when I went on vacation. The very prospect of returning to work would made me depressed, because I felt like my life was not how it should be. The only way I could be happy was by not taking long vacations anymore.

Ironically, I got into Peating, and lowering serotonin made me more depressed, because I knew how out 0f line my dreams were from what I truly wanted. I realized most of my dreams were fabricated from the culture I was in, and had nothing to do with what I truly wanted. I still remember what I dreamed about as a kid, and I realize how unconscious and free from influence they really were. As a kid, you just want little immediate things. You don't care for grand plans. I'd sit on the floor and draw sea mammals. And when I was done I'd forget about the paper I was drawing on. We live in a world that values goal oriented behavior, commitment, and continued return to the same place. Our bodies need variety and freedom, and our consciousness struggles to make peace with these conflicting needs. I think this is were this toxicity breeds.

The high serotonin state is largely a response to how unfulfilling our lives are. When most people struggle to fulfill their very minute needs(like moving around, exploring the environment, eating leisurely) they begin to imagine they need all these great things. Living according to those standards is futile. I left a very high paying job because I was becoming increasingly unhappy. Every bonus actually made me feel worse, because I knew this was really not what I wanted to do. Additionally, with each bonus I was committing more time to a place I didn't want to be in for a cause I didn't value. This perplexed a lot of people, including my family. They didn't understand why I was unhappy, but it is difficult to explain happiness to people who only value success and social status. I realize life is a lot more simple, and you need to give yourself time to breath. Most of my ambitions were fabricated by my environment. At times I had thoughts that I deserved better, or that some better opportunity existed. I also knew these "grand dreams" was my sub conscious begging me just get out of the current situation. I knew it was a false promise. I knew nothing better was waiting for me around the corner. But I also new that I was deeply unhappy, and only a grand vision for life was an "excuse" to get me out. I think the high serotonin is meant to free you, but most people remain stuck in the pursuit of these false goals, when they should have used it as a way out. (Once I stopped working at that job, I felt free and predictably, had no interest in pursuing that goal).

Another perplexing thing was the only way I could feel better at my job was doing things that were harmful long term. Eating fried foods, drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes and weed all seemed to help me "commit," but they also sedated my desire for life. Becoming healthier had the opposite effect, where I realized how much nonsense I seemed to tolerate, and how I was so out of touch with what I really wanted. I realized I could not be "healthy" in my current situation. It was too painful to be aware of my situation. Your senses do open up with health, and no amount of thinking could block the reality of my situation. I started saving money, and eventually quit.

I am slowly working on finding a way to improve my environment, and structure my life in a way that avoids poverty, and affords me plenty of time to just be. Whether that's playing music or drawing. Or spending hours walking through the woods. These are free activities that seem to give me more happiness than any paycheck in the world.

If we look at Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, self-actualization is the highest level, and represents acheiving our ideal selves. Reading your comment though makes me wonder how misguided this can be due to societal infiltration. I think it’s tough for many people to really follow what they really desire, deep down in their subconscious, since it’s so marred and inflamed, through poor diet and societal pressures. Some people may even be embarrassed for following what truly brings them meaning and joy.

Maslow later updated his hierarchy to reflect that transcendence was the ultimate objective, giving oneself to something beyond oneself, which we see often in those who are altruistic, spiritual, or passionate by ideals. Material things are seen as just a means to achieve the deeper purpose, which is their transcendent ideal. I think this is the biggest safeguard against pathological psyches, since life obtains a deep, larger than self meaning once transcendence occurs.

Self-actualization and transcendence can only occur when one is free from negative forces, both physiologically and psychologically, which is probably why fasting and retreats are so effective for life altering decisions and continual prayer, reflection, meditation, etc for reinforcing self-actualization and transcendence. At the least, the lower levels of Maslows needs would need to be met, and anyone with a poor metabolism or severely inflamed is not going to be able to obtain the higher states.

 

[Braveheart]

Hans, you mention Calcirol vitamin D 1000iu....just a note, I believe only 500iu approx is absorbed from one drop....

 

[Braveheart]

Hans, you mention Calcirol 1 drop, vitamin D 1000iu....just a note, I believe only 500iu approx is absorbed from one drop....

 

[lampofred]

This is something I've been thinking about for a long time. Thank you for posting about this.

I am coming to believe that a lot of these problems related to high serotonin are caused by the surrounding culture. In the United States, there is a culture that promotes excessive ambitions, the pursuit of wealth, and the pursuit of fame. These paths are known to cause unhappiness in the long run, but they are being promoted as a source for happiness and satisfaction. Because of this, a lot of people are stuck in dissatisfying career paths, but are not taking any steps to make things better. Also, people try to hoard as much money as they can while forgetting to live for the day. Seneca said it best when he argued that most people suffer because they do not know how to use the time in their life. They act as if their life will open up when they turn 60, but for now they pretend like they are not living.. Life is long, especially if you really do what you truly want to do. This does not mean one should be relentless and brutish in the pursuit of a career. But rather partake in enjoyable activities in a way that gives back some monetary return. It is far better to work in a restaurant and engage socially with other people than to work in a cubicle keeping up with a rat race.

I realized long ago that some people have excessive desires, and they want to pin those desires on you. Yet, many people secretly want very little. They want to enjoy the little things in life. They want to just be. Just walk for it's own sake. Eat a meal at an unregulated time. Sit down as if you have no where to go. That's at least how I felt. Life becomes incredibly rich. I discovered this when I went on vacation. The very prospect of returning to work would made me depressed, because I felt like my life was not how it should be. The only way I could be happy was by not taking long vacations anymore.

Ironically, I got into Peating, and lowering serotonin made me more depressed, because I knew how out 0f line my dreams were from what I truly wanted. I realized most of my dreams were fabricated from the culture I was in, and had nothing to do with what I truly wanted. I still remember what I dreamed about as a kid, and I realize how unconscious and free from influence they really were. As a kid, you just want little immediate things. You don't care for grand plans. I'd sit on the floor and draw sea mammals. And when I was done I'd forget about the paper I was drawing on. We live in a world that values goal oriented behavior, commitment, and continued return to the same place. Our bodies need variety and freedom, and our consciousness struggles to make peace with these conflicting needs. I think this is were this toxicity breeds.

The high serotonin state is largely a response to how unfulfilling our lives are. When most people struggle to fulfill their very minute needs(like moving around, exploring the environment, eating leisurely) they begin to imagine they need all these great things. Living according to those standards is futile. I left a very high paying job because I was becoming increasingly unhappy. Every bonus actually made me feel worse, because I knew this was really not what I wanted to do. Additionally, with each bonus I was committing more time to a place I didn't want to be in for a cause I didn't value. This perplexed a lot of people, including my family. They didn't understand why I was unhappy, but it is difficult to explain happiness to people who only value success and social status. I realize life is a lot more simple, and you need to give yourself time to breath. Most of my ambitions were fabricated by my environment. At times I had thoughts that I deserved better, or that some better opportunity existed. I also knew these "grand dreams" was my sub conscious begging me just get out of the current situation. I knew it was a false promise. I knew nothing better was waiting for me around the corner. But I also new that I was deeply unhappy, and only a grand vision for life was an "excuse" to get me out. I think the high serotonin is meant to free you, but most people remain stuck in the pursuit of these false goals, when they should have used it as a way out. (Once I stopped working at that job, I felt free and predictably, had no interest in pursuing that goal).

Another perplexing thing was the only way I could feel better at my job was doing things that were harmful long term. Eating fried foods, drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes and weed all seemed to help me "commit," but they also sedated my desire for life. Becoming healthier had the opposite effect, where I realized how much nonsense I seemed to tolerate, and how I was so out of touch with what I really wanted. I realized I could not be "healthy" in my current situation. It was too painful to be aware of my situation. Your senses do open up with health, and no amount of thinking could block the reality of my situation. I started saving money, and eventually quit.

I am slowly working on finding a way to improve my environment, and structure my life in a way that avoids poverty, and affords me plenty of time to just be. Whether that's playing music or drawing. Or spending hours walking through the woods. These are free activities that seem to give me more happiness than any paycheck in the world.

I agree that unfulfilled, unrealistic ambitions are very stressful and directly cause the serotonin-dominant Type A personality, and that serotonin reflects how unfulfilling you feel your life is, but most people I know aren't trying to become billionaires, movie stars, CEOs, etc. They just want health, friends, and financial security, and in today's environment, even achieving those basic minimums of a decent life is proving to be stressful/serotonin-inducing for many people. And for some reason, the deteriorating environment is never blamed. The right blames it on feelings of entitlement/laziness, and the left with its new age philosophy blames it on desires, both of which only blame the victim.

I also agree that alcohol and weed are essentially tranquilizers that make you "put up and shut up" (meditation as well). I think tobacco might be different though... smoking definitely has many negative effects on physical health such as causing lung cancer, but I think it's good for your brain, which the conspiracy theorist in me says might be the reason there is such a strong anti-tobacco push currently going on.

 

[JHAR]

I think you make some great overall points in your post, but I would challenge all the points I've bolded, at least to some degree.

First off, the average savings in the US is negative $1700. In other words, the average person has nothing saved, and is $1700 in debt. Debt slavery is far more stressful than having no debt.

When you say "These paths are known to cause unhappiness..." the question immediately arises "known to whom?"

And what ambitions are excessive? Is having a five bedroom house on an acre of land "excessive?" Maybe if you live in San Francisco or Manhattan. But if your a farmer in say Montana..... it's a very small amount of land.

I do think fame is mostly a shallow pursuit at this point..... but, I can understand people that want it for themselves. Truthfully, I don't see a whole lot of people pursuing true wealth..... I see them chasing the images of that wealth. In the US, we live in an unbacked fiat monetary system, with an inflationary currency. That system steals wealth and value from you every day.

And yes, those that think and plan ahead will always be rewarded in this world. Sadly, it's something the vast majority of people never do.

No doubt, there can be a lot of stress that comes with jobs that have really big salaries. But, there is also a lot of stress with jobs that have tiny salaries.

With excessive ambitions, I was referring to the way Seneca would describe it, as in young people who's mind's are busy with all the things they want to accomplish, rather than focus on what they really want out of life. And you are also correct that considering many people are in debt, they never get out of this cycle. I was merely referring to the social illusion that if you play by the rules and even if you make more than enough money, you will still remain unhappy. As you become successful in any career, the demands increase and your free time decreases. I was working 12 hour days, and during my off hours I would still need to be "available." And this is true for many well paying careers including lawyers, doctors, and bankers. And you are absolutely right about the system stealing wealth and value from you everyday. The "cash" people are getting payed is depreciating even as it moves from payroll into their checking account. The banks once payed money to store your savings, and we are approaching a time when we may have to pay the bank to store our money.

I thankfully saved up money and invested some of it so I wouldn't need to work for a period of time. At the same time, I have limited myself from other options in life, like owning a house and perhaps getting married in the near future.

 

[JHAR]

If we look at Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, self-actualization is the highest level, and represents acheiving our ideal selves. Reading your comment though makes me wonder how misguided this can be due to societal infiltration. I think it’s tough for many people to really follow what they really desire, deep down in their subconscious, since it’s so marred and inflamed, through poor diet and societal pressures. Some people may even be embarrassed for following what truly brings them meaning and joy.

Maslow later updated his hierarchy to reflect that transcendence was the ultimate objective, giving oneself to something beyond oneself, which we see often in those who are altruistic, spiritual, or passionate by ideals. Material things are seen as just a means to achieve the deeper purpose, which is their transcendent ideal. I think this is the biggest safeguard against pathological psyches, since life obtains a deep, larger than self meaning once transcendence occurs.

Self-actualization and transcendence can only occur when one is free from negative forces, both physiologically and psychologically, which is probably why fasting and retreats are so effective for life altering decisions and continual prayer, reflection, meditation, etc for reinforcing self-actualization and transcendence. At the least, the lower levels of Maslows needs would need to be met, and anyone with a poor metabolism or severely inflamed is not going to be able to obtain the higher states.

I don't know about that. Our needs for shelter and food are not as high as many think. I think many people who become successful overshoot their needs, and thus reach a consumer cycle, where they keep buying and replacing things in order to rejuvenate themselves, and taking on different experiences to feel better. Peat's nutritional philosophy exposes how affordable the essentials of nutrition really are. Many transcendent figures in history were not wealthy or famous in their lifetimes. Some of them even went through very stressful periods in their lives where their basic needs weren't meant. Our bodies I think are willing to cope with all sorts of physiological and psychological stressors, if we are advancing to where we truly want to be. If you are not where you want to be in life(having leisure to learn, a home,, a pleasant environment), you will never be truly happy.

I agree that unfulfilled, unrealistic ambitions are very stressful and directly cause the serotonin-dominant Type A personality, and that serotonin reflects how unfulfilling you feel your life is, but most people I know aren't trying to become billionaires, movie stars, CEOs, etc. They just want health, friends, and financial security, and in today's environment, even achieving those basic minimums of a decent life is proving to be stressful/serotonin-inducing for many people. And for some reason, the deteriorating environment is never blamed. The right blames it on feelings of entitlement/laziness, and the left with its new age philosophy blames it on desires, both of which only blame the victim.

I also agree that alcohol and weed are essentially tranquilizers that make you "put up and shut up" (meditation as well). I think tobacco might be different though... smoking definitely has many negative effects on physical health such as causing lung cancer, but I think it's good for your brain, which the conspiracy theorist in me says might be the reason there is such a strong anti-tobacco push currently going on.

I think there was a recent poll done that showed more people would rather be famous than healthy. Many young people though do suffer from illusions of grandeur. Success and dominance in a field is viewed as an ideal, not whether you are actually doing anything good. My personal opinion is that illusion is meant to get you out of a bad situation. It's like if you were in prison or a slave, you typically dream about a really wonderful life that is waiting for you outside of this predicament. This is meant to motivate you to free yourself, and get yourself out of prison. The moment you free yourself from slavery is also the moment your "dream" evaporates. In society, you may free yourself, but if you continue pursuing that dream, you will end up more miserable. The point of the illusion is to get you out, but in modern society it sucks you in.

About tobacco, I was talking about excessive smoking. You're probably right to think it's harm is exaggerated. It's addictive capacity is exponentiated by a harmful environment. I currently smoke only a few cigarettes a week, when before I'd go through about ten a day.

 

[Terma]

I still believe these guys had the right general idea: Serotonin and brain function: a tale of two receptors

5-HT2A gets a lot of excess blame through correlation and sketchy experiments, and probably received some blame that belongs to 5-HT2C. The more I looked into it the clearer it was there are serious problems in the serotonin research, to the point it's almost impossible to rely on any of it, e.g. a number of aging research is now half-useless because the prime 5-HT1A agonist in experiments turned out to affect 5-HT7: 8-OH-DPAT - Wikipedia . There are so many contradictions in the experiments, and major species differences. Look at this crap: Serotonin 1A Agonism Decreases Affiliative Behavior in Pair-Bonded Titi Monkeys (2017). Wouldn't that be fantastic information? Oops except right in the discussion they write they're perfectly aware of the problem, they just... chose to ignore it. "Future work should utilize pharmacological agents with more specific activity, or concurrently block activity at 5-HT7 receptors to more clearly elucidate the mechanism of action responsible for changes to behavior." -> Why didn't you do that?! You had all the time in the world!!! 5-HT7 is a significant drug target.

By and large serotonin appears to be the "perceived threat" molecule: Reconciling the role of serotonin in behavioral inhibition and aversion: acute tryptophan depletion abolishes punishment-induced inhibition in humans This is generally the case outside the brain as well, so it's fairly consistent.

A lot of the "serotonin personalities" are probably greatly affected by the Dynorphin system (though it veers more toward PTSD territory). Serotonin (in the brain) works via prediction, while dynorphin (closely tied to CRH at the HPA, both ways) signals on the actual negative outcomes such as pain and failure, while instilling (and later extinguishing) fear memories. Acute effects of dynorphin are feeling like death, whereas acute effects of serotonin actually feel good (to deal with threats), if you go by the predominant receptors and common wirings. Long-term is a different story.

In other words there is a good part of it that is probably mediated by the dynorphin system, and although there isn't enough deep research on their connection, it stands to reason the dynorphin system may help set up the serotonin circuits. It will be cool to find out how the research connects them in the future (or unless I missed something), and contributes to all this.

In terms of "negative" social behavior, well I'm sure most know but it was unsaid that there is a strong role for both oxytocin and vasopressin, they may mediate the bulk of it, besides dopamine.

Kynurenine pathway is more directly responsible for energy regulation, and thus feelings of fatigue; dynorphin and serotonin work indirectly on energy regulation by inhibiting participation and reflection on energy-expensive activities. But as it's been beaten to death on this forum, low energy alone (thus kynurenine dysfunction alone) will lead to irritated personalities.

Gonna stop and click Post Reply cause I forgot where I was going with this.

 

[Lokzo]

It does boost serotonin, and the effect becomes significant as the dose increases. Plus, it decreases the 5-HT1A receptor and increases the 5-HT2A receptor, which is desirable. But it does increase dopamine and GABA and that is why I have it in the article. Many people do benefit from it, but I'm also cautious of it.

If zeolite helps the PSSD symptoms from Ashwagandha usage, I believe it may be because it resensitizes the 5-HT1A receptor and blocking the 5-HT1B.
What else can resensitize the 1A receptor?

If I take Zinc, it blunts me and makes me even worse !! (Which decreases binding of Ligands to 5-HT1A receptor)

 

[Lokzo]

interesting. do you have any advice other than cypro for how to possibly correct this? i'm going to buy some supplements in a minute. what i find strange is that the effect has persisted for soon three years after i quit taking it. the most noticeable effect is the lack of desire to seek out pleasure - sexual or otherwise. blunted response to music, literature, films, etc. basically the only way i've found of temporarily reversing it is very high amounts of cannabis, which isn't something i want to be doing... i react very negatively to zinc, by the way

Exactly the same as you. It's like we both have ****88 ourselves up from Ashwagandha in the exact same way!!!

 

[Momado965]

Exactly the same as you. It's like we both have ****88 ourselves up from Ashwagandha in the exact same way!!!

Did you take powedered form or extracts. I also used very high amounts of ashwagandha before. Up to 15g daily.

 

[Lokzo]

Did you take powedered form or extracts. I also used very high amounts of ashwagandha before. Up to 15g daily.

I used KSM-66. So extract. :)

 

[Momado965]

I used KSM-66. So extract. :)

This is a shity extract, even high quality branda. I learned this the hard way. Not the same as poweder, in terms of effects. A better extract was sensoril. I still prefer powdered form.

 

[Terma]

Well, here's some food for thought:
Serotonin stimulates hypothalamic mRNA expression and local release of neurohypophysial peptides. - PubMed - NCBI
https://www.researchgate.net/public...sticular_Response_to_the_Presence_of_a_Female

Don't have time to go into those, which may give yet different ideas than what I'm about to write: I think the thing to notice is that 5-HT2 (either A or C, there was some disagreement in studies) are solely responsible among the 5-HT receptors for Vasopressin release; 5-HT1a can only release Oxytocin. According to all the shitty studies, anyway.

Don't remember where I read the bulk of this, so good old wikipedia to the rescue:
Sexual motivation and hormones - Wikipedia

Vasopressin levels have been shown to increase during erectile response in male sexual reproduction arousal, and decrease back to baseline following ejaculation.[16] The increase of vasopressin during erectile response may be directly associated with increased motivation to engage in sexual behaviour.[14]

Also it is possible (I think likely, or at least circumstantially true) 5-HT2a increases testosterone a little, though again the studies conflicted (I don't know if it was resolved somewhere by someone). But since 5-HT2a is even found outside the brain (it's inside the brain that was less clear to me), you could get issues from something such as this, since presumably taking ashwaganda systemically is unlikely to discriminate unless it just doesn't get into the tissues:
Ketanserin, an antagonist of 5-HT2A receptor of serotonin, inhibits testosterone secretion by rat Leydig cells in vitro. - PubMed - NCBI

For 5-HT1a itself, it's possibly a reason people like fish oil's effects, besides the inflammation thing:
The role of 5-HT₁A receptors in fish oil-mediated increased BDNF expression in the rat hippocampus and cortex: a possible antidepressant mechanism. - PubMed - NCBI
Omega-3 fatty acid deficient male rats exhibit abnormal behavioral activation in the forced swim test following chronic fluoxetine treatment: assoc... - PubMed - NCBI

Expression of serotonin receptors is also affected by experimentally altering tissue or dietary n-3 PUFA status. Similar to the receptor alterations found in depression, rats with brain DHA levels 70% below normal, resulting from inadequate consumption of n-3 PUFAs for two generations, had higher densities of 5-HT2A receptors in the frontal cortex [53, 54].

Don't particularly recommend unless you've hit rock bottom

Keep in mind in all this the 5-HT1a receptor is possibly severely confused with 5-HT7 (this gives the hypothermia). That's about all I can write today.

 

[Hans]

Nice job Hans!!

This is an amazing post. Thanks!

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.

 

[bboone]

Also it is possible (I think likely, or at least circumstantially true) 5-HT2a increases testosterone a little, though again the studies conflicted (I don't know if it was resolved somewhere by someone). But since 5-HT2a is even found outside the brain (it's inside the brain that was less clear to me), you could get issues from something such as this, since presumably taking ashwaganda systemically is unlikely to discriminate unless it just doesn't get into the tissues:
Ketanserin, an antagonist of 5-HT2A receptor of serotonin, inhibits testosterone secretion by rat Leydig cells in vitro. - PubMed - NCBI

my familiarity with neurochemistry is non-existent, but doesn't ashwagandha increase 5-H2a receptors and thereby increase testosterone? or is this what you're saying? to be honest, i don't understand how ashwagandha could have caused these issues, but it seems to have done so, regardless... the brain should have gone back to normal by now, but it undoubtedly hasn't. the symptoms fit those of elevated serotonin, too, but i understand that it's not so black-and-white