Quinine Is A Serotonin Antagonist And Inhibits Serotonin Synthesis

[haidut]

I never said you claimed it has a direct pro-dopamine effect. It was just something I've been trying to figure out for myself. Just a few posts before this ,I posted a study on its dopaminergic effects and many people say it helps with RLS ,because of its pro-dopamine effects... so there is a good base to speculate on whether or not is has a direct pro-dopamin effect.

I never said you did. I was just asking where on the forum have you seen claims that it does have such effects since I'd be interested in reading about it.

 

[Mauritio]

I never said you did. I was just asking where on the forum have you seen claims that it does have such effects since I'd be interested in reading about it.

Oh ok. The only scientific evidence I've seen is the study I already posted and this one.
I didn't post it, because wasn't sure what it means . But if I'm reading it right quinine inhibits specific dopamine transporters and thus increases dopamine.

Quinine enhances the behavioral stimulant effect of cocaine in mice - PubMed

The Na(+)-dependent dopamine transporter (DAT) is primarily responsible for regulating free dopamine (DA) concentrations in the brain by participating in the majority of DA uptake; however, other DA transporters may also participate, especially if cocaine or other drugs of abuse compromise DAT...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[haidut]

Oh ok. The only scientific evidence I've seen is the study I already posted and this one.
I didn't post it, because wasn't sure what it means . But if I'm reading it right quinine inhibits specific dopamine transporters and thus increases dopamine.

Quinine enhances the behavioral stimulant effect of cocaine in mice - PubMed

The Na(+)-dependent dopamine transporter (DAT) is primarily responsible for regulating free dopamine (DA) concentrations in the brain by participating in the majority of DA uptake; however, other DA transporters may also participate, especially if cocaine or other drugs of abuse compromise DAT...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yep, that's the one I had in mind when I said it potentiates the stereotypical effects of known dopaminergic substanes. It would be great if somebody could try quinine with something like bromocriptine, or even LSD and report how it changed the effects.

 

[Mauritio]

Yep, that's the one I had in mind when I said it potentiates the stereotypical effects of known dopaminergic substanes. It would be great if somebody could try quinine with something like bromocriptine, or even LSD and report how it changed the effects.

I kind of did that today . I first took mucuna pruriens and later quinine/red cinchona extract. But I didn't find a potentiation of mucunas pro-dopamine effect. If anything it felt like it evened the slight jitteriness out ,so more of calming effect.

 

[Mauritio]

This study showed a significant decrease in testosterone levels in rats after beeing fed quinine for 8 weeks. HED was about 125mg.

"Both the serum and testicular levels of TT in rats administered QU only were significantly (P < 0.001) lower than those of the control and QU plus TT-treated rats. "

Quinine lowers serum and testicular testosterone in adult Sprague-Dawley rats - PubMed

We have earlier demonstrated that quinine (QU) is a testicular toxicant. This present study was aimed at evaluating the effects of QU on both the serum and testicular levels of testosterone (TT) in an attempt to elucidate one of the potential mechanisms of QU-induced testicular toxicity. Thirty...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This study showed testicular damage in rats. Which was reduced by vitamin C .

"Our results showed that the cytoarchitecture of seminiferous tubules of rats treated with QU only was grossly distorted, while that of rats that had both QU and AA was not significantly different from that of the controls. "

Attenuation of quinine-induced testicular toxicity by ascorbic acid in rat: a stereological approach - PubMed

Quinine (QU), an alkaloid derived from the cinchona bark is presently the mainstay of treatment for severe malaria and nocturnal leg cramps. We have recently demonstrated that QU is toxic to testicular gonocytes and interstitial endocrinocytes. This present study sought to determine whether...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Another study finding the same results.

"The results showed that there was a general destruction of cells of the seminiferous tubules and the testicular interstitium that persisted even after the discontinuation of QU and to the end of our experiment that lasted 20 weeks."

Morphometric and stereological assessment of the effects of long-term administration of quinine on the morphology of rat testis - PubMed

We conclude that QU has deleterious effect on the seminiferous tubules of Sprague-Dawley rats, though the mechanism of damage is unclear.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The MoA here seems to be the increase in lipid peroxidation.

"Quinine significantly (p < 0.01) increased free radicals (from elevation of MDA) and decreased testosterone in the testis compared with those of the control group and those treated with a combination of quinine and ascorbic acid. The semen of rats treated with only quinine demonstrated a significantly (p < 0.001) lower sperm concentration and motility compared to the controls and those treated with quinine plus ascorbic acid."

The effect of quinine and ascorbic acid on rat testes - PubMed

Ascorbic acid has beneficial effect and protects against quinine-induced testicular reduction of testosterone.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Quinine does not only make male mice recover completely, but also cause inflammation on mice testicles tissue."

Comparative study of chloroquine and quinine on malaria rodents and their effects on the mouse testis - PubMed

In this study, It can be concluded that male mice have full resistance to the quinine. Quinine does not only make male mice recover completely, but also cause inflammation on mice testicles tissue.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Quinine blindness is a rare complication seen in the management of malaria and may occur even with a single dose of the drug in susceptible persons with a mean time from ingestion to onset of blindness being 9 hours [2]. Visual loss occurs in every patient with a plasma quinine concentration above 10 mg/l [3].

A Case of Quinine Induced Blindness

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

What about the chance of blindness. I am blown away by the power of this stuff after drinking grapefruit juice.

 

[AdoTintor]

I've been taking a tea I make from 2g of cinchona bark for months with no ill effects. Sometimes 2 teas a day. And you can always start with 0.5g tea to see if you are sensitive to it.

You can work out from the half life (12 hours if I remember right) how much your level of quinine is and keep it low. Because it clears by 1/2 overnight you would have to have many teas in one day to overdose.

@863127 did some good calculations on this and in previous posts put up lots of info on safety.

 

[863127]

Here are links to posts I've made about cinchona bark, which has quinine in it.


Comparing practicality and reliability of black cumin seed oil, cinchona bark, HCQ, and chloroquine; also comparisons of binding affinities of Ivermectin, HCQ, and chloroquine:

Transmissible Viral Vaccines... how the shots are affecting those who haven't taken it. They may be designed to do exactly that

So if thymohydroquinone is BBB and CNS permeable, I'd guess that thymoquinone and other things in the black cumin seed oil are too. I'd also guess that the combination of chemicals in the oil... (like in the first table in this post: Transmissible Viral Vaccines... how the shots are affecting...

raypeatforum.com

Quinine and HCQ have different half-lives so how to dose an amount of quinine in cinchona bark similarly to Zelenko's prophylaxis protocol HCQ doses; risks of cinchona bark compared to synthetic derivatives

Transmissible Viral Vaccines... how the shots are affecting those who haven't taken it. They may be designed to do exactly that

Oh yeah. Cool. Thanks. thymoquinone in seeds (in mg) 0.0098 - 0.376 % of weight I found this volume to weight conversion for black cumin seeds...

raypeatforum.com

A picture of 2 grams of cinchona bark so people who don't have a scale can eyeball their dose estimate better than I did (so they don't get cinchonism symptoms)

Transmissible Viral Vaccines... how the shots are affecting those who haven't taken it. They may be designed to do exactly that

do you know how they get the placebo vaccines, do they have special doctors who are also anti vaccine and give them placebo? I know they're not as stupid as the rest. They shoot sitting ducks. They aren't the sitting ducks.

raypeatforum.com

Uncertainties of mine about how to compare Zelenko's recommended HCQ doses with safe cinchona bark doses, considering that cinchona bark has lots of other chemicals in it that interact with the quinine effects

Transmissible Viral Vaccines... how the shots are affecting those who haven't taken it. They may be designed to do exactly that

do you know how they get the placebo vaccines, do they have special doctors who are also anti vaccine and give them placebo? I know they're not as stupid as the rest. They shoot sitting ducks. They aren't the sitting ducks.

raypeatforum.com

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Here are links to posts I've made about cinchona bark, which has quinine in it.


Comparing practicality and reliability of black cumin seed oil, cinchona bark, HCQ, and chloroquine; also comparisons of binding affinities of Ivermectin, HCQ, and chloroquine:

Transmissible Viral Vaccines... how the shots are affecting those who haven't taken it. They may be designed to do exactly that

So if thymohydroquinone is BBB and CNS permeable, I'd guess that thymoquinone and other things in the black cumin seed oil are too. I'd also guess that the combination of chemicals in the oil... (like in the first table in this post: Transmissible Viral Vaccines... how the shots are affecting...

raypeatforum.com

Quinine and HCQ have different half-lives so how to dose an amount of quinine in cinchona bark similarly to Zelenko's prophylaxis protocol HCQ doses; risks of cinchona bark compared to synthetic derivatives

Transmissible Viral Vaccines... how the shots are affecting those who haven't taken it. They may be designed to do exactly that

Oh yeah. Cool. Thanks. thymoquinone in seeds (in mg) 0.0098 - 0.376 % of weight I found this volume to weight conversion for black cumin seeds...

raypeatforum.com

A picture of 2 grams of cinchona bark so people who don't have a scale can eyeball their dose estimate better than I did (so they don't get cinchonism symptoms)

Transmissible Viral Vaccines... how the shots are affecting those who haven't taken it. They may be designed to do exactly that

do you know how they get the placebo vaccines, do they have special doctors who are also anti vaccine and give them placebo? I know they're not as stupid as the rest. They shoot sitting ducks. They aren't the sitting ducks.

raypeatforum.com

Uncertainties of mine about how to compare Zelenko's recommended HCQ doses with safe cinchona bark doses, considering that cinchona bark has lots of other chemicals in it that interact with the quinine effects

Transmissible Viral Vaccines... how the shots are affecting those who haven't taken it. They may be designed to do exactly that

do you know how they get the placebo vaccines, do they have special doctors who are also anti vaccine and give them placebo? I know they're not as stupid as the rest. They shoot sitting ducks. They aren't the sitting ducks.

raypeatforum.com

I took like 1/5 of my Quinine pill (it's ground bark) and the effect is frightening. Almost over bearing, from a lack of serotonin. Kind of freaks me out as my consciousness is use to such high serotonin presence.

Have to be seriously careful with this stuff

 

[golder]

I took like 1/5 of my Quinine pill (it's ground bark) and the effect is frightening. Almost over bearing, from a lack of serotonin. Kind of freaks me out as my consciousness is use to such high serotonin presence.

Have to be seriously careful with this stuff

Could you explain a little more about the subjective effects you felt from the lowered sense of seratonin on the 5th of a pill. Sounds like a powerful substance not to be underestimated!

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Could you explain a little more about the subjective effects you felt from the lowered sense of seratonin on the 5th of a pill. Sounds like a powerful substance not to be underestimated!

Everything got very clear and bright
Bowels got loose(gut serotonin)
Skin flushed, blood flow
breathing rate increased.

Extremly powerful.

 

[golder]

Everything got very clear and bright
Bowels got loose(gut serotonin)
Skin flushed, blood flow
breathing rate increased.

Extremly powerful.

That sounds incredibly good. What were your concerns/reservations in all of those improvements? What about trying even less than a fifth of a tab? Have you tried/experimented after this experience? Have you had a similar reaction with any other seratonin antagonists?

 

[Deleted member 5487]

That sounds incredibly good. What were your concerns/reservations in all of those improvements? What about trying even less than a fifth of a tab? Have you tried/experimented after this experience? Have you had a similar reaction with any other seratonin antagonists?

No I just bought it yesterday after feeling so good on grapefruit juice I pinned it down to the quinine.

Gonna keep testing. Just took a tiny sip

 

[golder]

Everything got very clear and bright
Bowels got loose(gut serotonin)
Skin flushed, blood flow
breathing rate increased.

Extremly powerful.

Bit confused, you listed these amazing improvements from quinine with the caveat that’s it’s frightening, overbearing and ‘Have to be seriously careful with this stuff’.
Was quinine a positive experience for you?

 

[YourUniverse]

This study showed a significant decrease in testosterone levels in rats after beeing fed quinine for 8 weeks. HED was about 125mg.

"Both the serum and testicular levels of TT in rats administered QU only were significantly (P < 0.001) lower than those of the control and QU plus TT-treated rats. "

Quinine lowers serum and testicular testosterone in adult Sprague-Dawley rats - PubMed

We have earlier demonstrated that quinine (QU) is a testicular toxicant. This present study was aimed at evaluating the effects of QU on both the serum and testicular levels of testosterone (TT) in an attempt to elucidate one of the potential mechanisms of QU-induced testicular toxicity. Thirty...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This study showed testicular damage in rats. Which was reduced by vitamin C .

"Our results showed that the cytoarchitecture of seminiferous tubules of rats treated with QU only was grossly distorted, while that of rats that had both QU and AA was not significantly different from that of the controls. "

Attenuation of quinine-induced testicular toxicity by ascorbic acid in rat: a stereological approach - PubMed

Quinine (QU), an alkaloid derived from the cinchona bark is presently the mainstay of treatment for severe malaria and nocturnal leg cramps. We have recently demonstrated that QU is toxic to testicular gonocytes and interstitial endocrinocytes. This present study sought to determine whether...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Another study finding the same results.

"The results showed that there was a general destruction of cells of the seminiferous tubules and the testicular interstitium that persisted even after the discontinuation of QU and to the end of our experiment that lasted 20 weeks."

Morphometric and stereological assessment of the effects of long-term administration of quinine on the morphology of rat testis - PubMed

We conclude that QU has deleterious effect on the seminiferous tubules of Sprague-Dawley rats, though the mechanism of damage is unclear.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The MoA here seems to be the increase in lipid peroxidation.

"Quinine significantly (p < 0.01) increased free radicals (from elevation of MDA) and decreased testosterone in the testis compared with those of the control group and those treated with a combination of quinine and ascorbic acid. The semen of rats treated with only quinine demonstrated a significantly (p < 0.001) lower sperm concentration and motility compared to the controls and those treated with quinine plus ascorbic acid."

The effect of quinine and ascorbic acid on rat testes - PubMed

Ascorbic acid has beneficial effect and protects against quinine-induced testicular reduction of testosterone.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Quinine does not only make male mice recover completely, but also cause inflammation on mice testicles tissue."

Comparative study of chloroquine and quinine on malaria rodents and their effects on the mouse testis - PubMed

In this study, It can be concluded that male mice have full resistance to the quinine. Quinine does not only make male mice recover completely, but also cause inflammation on mice testicles tissue.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

whoa this is awesome, thank you!

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Bit confused, you listed these amazing improvements from quinine with the caveat that’s it’s frightening, overbearing and ‘Have to be seriously careful with this stuff’.
Was quinine a positive experience for you?

It's just shocking how powerful it is, and how much Sertonin effects day to day conviouesness

 

[Peroxphos]

It's just shocking how powerful it is, and how much Sertonin effects day to day conviouesness

How many mg of quinine was your 1/5th of a pill? Which pill was that, can we buy it online?

 

[Deleted member 5487]

HERBALICIOUS Quinine Capsules - Cinchona Officinalis Bark Herbal Supplement for Leg Cramping Relief, Cramp Defense and Overall Digestive Health - All-Natural Quinine Sulfate Pills, 500mg, 160 Tablets​

on amazon

 

[golder]

HERBALICIOUS Quinine Capsules - Cinchona Officinalis Bark Herbal Supplement for Leg Cramping Relief, Cramp Defense and Overall Digestive Health - All-Natural Quinine Sulfate Pills, 500mg, 160 Tablets​

on amazon

Thought it was a prescription med? Link..?

 

[Kman]

I actually just asked Ray about using Quinine HCL (as I just got very pure powder to attempt homemade tonic).

His reply:

"I think it should be used in extremely small amounts, as a digestive stimulant." - RP

I followed up about what 'extremely small amounts' might mean (and referenced the standard amount used in tonic water is up to approx 80mg per litre) and he replied:

"I think tonic water should be used only in small amounts, about an ounce at a time, unless it’s for treating a viral infection." - RP

That means something like 2-2.5mg of Quinine HCL, which is a very small amount. I've asked him what he thinks the dangers of going to higher doses are - will report back here if/when he replies.