Taurine And Glycine Combo-horrible Sleep

[Sagitarrius90]

hey guys

I am trying to reduce cortisol, increase dopamine and get a better and deeper sleep.

Yesterday I bought glycine and taurine and dosage was 10g glycine and 6 g taurine and took 5em both around 4pm eastern time.

It took me forever to fall asleep last night (went to bed around 1230am) and I didn’t dream much. I was up earlier I had only slept about 5 6 hours and I usually get around 8 to 9. It felt like my mind would not shut off

Any reason behind this. I am also trying to increase my dht levels Hence why I am taking the glycine

Thanks guys

 

[Mito]

Most of the studies around glycine and sleep used much less than 10 grams. Maybe try reducing to 3-5 grams.

Glycine ingestion improves subjective sleep quality in human volunteers, correlating with polysomnographic changes

Some people seem to do better with free glycine but others do better getting the glycine as a part of collegen.
https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2017/12/13/get-better-sleep-glycine/

 

[Sagitarrius90]

Thank you @Mito appreciate the study so it makes me think perhaps the taurine was what caused me to be wired all night based on that study... Ill try and find the link but it seems that taurine can cause gaba rebound/down regulation and I noticed when I took phenibut which acts on the gaba receptors once every three days I experienced horrible insomnia which was similar to last night

 

[omnivoracious]

Most of the studies around glycine and sleep used much less than 10 grams. Maybe try reducing to 3-5 grams.

Glycine ingestion improves subjective sleep quality in human volunteers, correlating with polysomnographic changes

Some people seem to do better with free glycine but others do better getting the glycine as a part of collegen.
https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2017/12/13/get-better-sleep-glycine/

I use hydrolysate and get 2.8g of Glycine. I've tried pure Glycine and it seemed to give me some minor stomach issues as Masterjohn mentions so I do collagen in my evening shake. I don't take Taurine so I can't comment on that. I do take 2mg of Melatonin and have no problem going to sleep or falling back asleep if I have to get up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom.

 

[Sagitarrius90]

I will try a low dose melatonin tonight and see if that helps... and I will dose the taurine away from the glycine to see what’s causing this wired sensation. It’s not that I instantly have tons of energy it’s more like I’m much more concentrated and awake. Playing the guessing game here but I assume perhaps increased dopamine activity from the taurine... or maybe an increased metabolism... my tsh is 1.1 which is good.

 

[omnivoracious]

Starting with low doses of Melatonin is a great idea. Too much can leave you feeling groggy in the morning. I've been using Melatonin for a little over one year and I've found that 2mg works really well for me.

 

[Kunder]

Drawing conclusions after a single dose is not wise. Could have been completely unrelated.

I take almost identical dosage 3 times a day, no sleep issues, on the contrary, notably deeper sleep after glycine introduction (was only taking taurine before).

 

[raypeatclips]

@Nick Borcic @omnivoracious

All quotes from here Aging Eyes, Infant Eyes, and Excitable Tissues

"The popular supplements melatonin,...all increase the risk of retinal light damage and macular degeneration."

"In 1994 A.V. Sirotkin found that melatonin inhibits progesterone production but stimulates estrogen production, and it’s widely recognized that melatonin generally inhibits the thyroid hormones,"

"There is a lot of talk about melatonin’s function as an antioxidant, but, like so many other “antioxidants,” melatonin can act as a pro-oxidant at physiologically relevant concentrations; some studies have found that it, like estrogen, increases the activity of the pro-oxidative free radical nitric oxide (which acts like melatonin on pigment cells, causing them to lighten)."

"Almost any kind of stress increases the formation of melatonin."

"Melatonin increases the concentration of free fatty acids during the night "

"Melatonin lowers body temperature, causes vasoconstriction in the brain, heart, and other organs, and slows reactions. An antagonist to melatonin acts as an antidepressant, reducing “behavioral despair” resulting from stress. (Dubocovich, et al., 1990.) So, in the behavioral sense, melatonin reduces sensitivity, yet it increases the eyes’ sensitivity to light, causing them to be injured by light that would otherwise be harmless."

 

[Kunder]

I’ve seen that before. Cant believe melatonin supplementation is being advised in the forum. Not the first time either.

 

[Sagitarrius90]

I agree @Kunder I just hate having bad sleeps because I exercise pretty religiously and having a terrible sleep just rules out gym day .. And on that note I want to mention I allow sufficient recovery so I'm not over doing it if anyone is thinking that... 4 days a week for 45 1 hr

Anways I'm going to try round 2 but taking way lower doses today and will report back tomorrow ...

 

[Makrosky]

hey guys

I am trying to reduce cortisol, increase dopamine and get a better and deeper sleep.

Yesterday I bought glycine and taurine and dosage was 10g glycine and 6 g taurine and took 5em both around 4pm eastern time.

It took me forever to fall asleep last night (went to bed around 1230am) and I didn’t dream much. I was up earlier I had only slept about 5 6 hours and I usually get around 8 to 9. It felt like my mind would not shut off

Any reason behind this. I am also trying to increase my dht levels Hence why I am taking the glycine

Thanks guys

That's too big of a dose. You should start with 3gr glycine and 1gr taurine. In fact... You should start only with one, either glycine or taurine and see how it goes.

 

[omnivoracious]

@Nick Borcic @omnivoracious

Thanks for the info. I truly wasn't aware and will research some more. I'm most interested in what level of risk we are talking about. If anyone has links to studies it would be greatly appreciated. I sleep a solid 7 hours per night so feel real good about quality of sleep but would obviously want to weigh risk factors of prolonged Melatonin use.

 

[Sagitarrius90]

I read up about aspirin as well helping sleep but heard that can deplete taurine/glycine...

I think my best bet is to lower my dosages for both glycine and taurine ..and for aspirin I'm going to stick to a gram a day... hopefully I get some good sleep tonight

I will also do salt and oj before as well !!! PS would lower cortisol cause any adverse reactions? Maybe too low cortisol can create insomnia?

 

[Dave Clark]

How about theanine, seems to work for me?

 

[whodathunkit]

Those are crazy high doses of anything for your first try. Please try to refrain from doing that to yourself in the future. LOL Such high dosages of anything often backfire terribly on some people. Best to start low and go slow.

I like glycine for sleep, but I use no more than 2-3g right at bed time.

I've heard taurine gives some people wakefulness, so better to stick to that before about 1p. I do use taurine in combo with glycine for digestion, but not in the evening, for the reason of potential wakefulness. Also I use small doses of taurine. I've never had a problem with it.

Maybe try the combo in the morning or early afternoon at a dose of something like 0.5g taurine to 2g glycine. Then use 2-3g glycine in the evening without taurine, for the relaxation/sleep benefits.

Glycine does work for sleep based on my experience. But again, have heard of taurine producing wakefulness, even when ingested earlier in the day. I think it depends on the individual. So be careful with that.

Good luck!

 

[yerrag]

When you're taking amino acids, I think it helps to have sugar with them. These amino acids digest quickly, and use up sugar in the process.

I prefer taking collagen hydrolysate over glycine. 10 grams of collagen has 3 grams of glycine. Someone in a post said she prefers gelatin over collagen hydrolysate. It's probably because it takes longer to digest. But I do well with taking 10 grams collagen with 2 grams taurine with 1 teaspoon sugar mixed with milk as well as a tbsp of vco. Preferably in warm milk so the collagen dissolves better.

 

[whodathunkit]

Someone in a post said she prefers gelatin over collagen hydrolysate.

Might have been me. I've said that recently in another thread I think you were also in.

I said it mainly because I don't get any therapeutic benefit from hydrolysate. It seems to do nothing for me in terms of how it makes me feel or any benefit to my skin or connective tissues. I've tried using it for extended periods of time (like three months) and it didn't produce the same effects that gelatin or gelatin broth does in the same amount of time.

BUT I also find that powdered gelatin does give me gut issues, even if "well cooked". Plus there's always an undertaste of barnyard **** with powdered gelatin, even if highly flavored. Hydrolysate and broth do not have either of these drawbacks.

If I had to pick a powder, though, I'd pick powdered gelatin over hydrolysate, even with the digestive issues and crappy taste, simply because I don't think there's much therapeutic value to hydrolysate. IMO it's possibly rendered ineffective or at least much less so (to the point of needing to take so much that it becomes economically unfeasible) by the extra processing it goes through. Others' mileage may vary.

Overall, I've found broth is the far superior option for "food" glycine intake in terms of therapeutic benefit, digestibility, and yumminess.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

I've found taurine to be a problematic supplement for me regarding sleep. I don't dare take it after noon, or else I'll have terrible sleep and wake up with a headache, which ruins the entire next day.

 

[RobertJM]

I get insomnia from taurine alone. Not sure why. Perhaps it has a detoxifying effect in an acute sense. It has multiple actions and gets the liver working. And yes, as with anything metabolically enhancing, needs sugar (and the sugar needs minerals to be processed). Don't just throw sugar at it (like some do here with coffee). Best to go conservative with the supplements, I agree with above posters.

 

[yerrag]

Might have been me. I've said that recently in another thread I think you were also in.

I said it mainly because I don't get any therapeutic benefit from hydrolysate. It seems to do nothing for me in terms of how it makes me feel or any benefit to my skin or connective tissues. I've tried using it for extended periods of time (like three months) and it didn't produce the same effects that gelatin or gelatin broth does in the same amount of time.

BUT I also find that powdered gelatin does give me gut issues, even if "well cooked". Plus there's always an undertaste of barnyard **** with powdered gelatin, even if highly flavored. Hydrolysate and broth do not have either of these drawbacks.

If I had to pick a powder, though, I'd pick powdered gelatin over hydrolysate, even with the digestive issues and crappy taste, simply because I don't think there's much therapeutic value to hydrolysate. IMO it's possibly rendered ineffective or at least much less so (to the point of needing to take so much that it becomes economically unfeasible) by the extra processing it goes through. Others' mileage may vary.

Overall, I've found broth is the far superior option for "food" glycine intake in terms of therapeutic benefit, digestibility, and yumminess.

Yes, I think it's you. You have to be a very observant person to capture all these you're saying. I thought I was already observant, but your observations got me to rethinking the use of the different alternative sources of glycine. I've been able to sleep much better after rejiggering my bedtime drink. Although I haven't used glycine, I'm disposed to not use it, given my experience with collagen and having a hard time sleeping without adding sugar to the bedtime drink. I think the more processed a protein is, the more easily digestible it is. Being so much digestible isn't a good thing when it forces the body to adjust to a sudden deluge of needs, which in this case is the sudden need for sugar. It easily upsets the blood sugar control mechanism.

I agree that gelatin would be preferable over collagen. It just takes a little more time to prepare. You can't just dissolve it in warm liquid like collagen. You still have to dissolve it in cool water to let it partially dissolve before introducing hot water for it to completely dissolve. But if you're saying gelatin has more of a therapeutic value, I'm getting swayed to that ideas hearing it from you. Perhaps I'll deal with the hassle of gelatin over the convenience of hydrolysate.

As for broth, it's too much work for me. I've made broth and the time it takes to make and to strain, it seems a bit of overkill to me, although the mirepoix really gives it such as good flavor.