During A Fast, Glycine/Niacinamide/Asprin Post Workout?

Nick Borcic

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Hello all

Now before I get flamed about posting something that Isnt peat advised, I just wanted to run this by the group.

I'm using intermittent fasting to get lean and to increase my DHT levels as much as possible. Since I am around 14-15% now I'm trying to get down to around 10%.

I'm exercising first thing in the morning on empty stomach doing upper body/lower body split 4x a week 60 min max and depending on the day light walking around.

Would using supplements like aspirin, glycine, niacinamide and even taurine and ashwaganda help keep cortisol levels at bay? I notice I get irritable, hot(definitely stress hormones), hold water, shakiness etc.

Again I know peat is against fasting but would using these supplements stop the increased cortisol response from fasting
 

Jsaute21

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Everybody is different but i don't think the metabolism boosters you mention will be favorable to fasting. I would recommend that you eat very micronutrient dense and make sure protein & carbs are adequate. Other than that, i probably wouldn't take supplements such as thyroid/gelatin/all that good stuff etc.
 

Hans

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Hello all

Now before I get flamed about posting something that Isnt peat advised, I just wanted to run this by the group.

I'm using intermittent fasting to get lean and to increase my DHT levels as much as possible. Since I am around 14-15% now I'm trying to get down to around 10%.

I'm exercising first thing in the morning on empty stomach doing upper body/lower body split 4x a week 60 min max and depending on the day light walking around.

Would using supplements like aspirin, glycine, niacinamide and even taurine and ashwaganda help keep cortisol levels at bay? I notice I get irritable, hot(definitely stress hormones), hold water, shakiness etc.

Again I know peat is against fasting but would using these supplements stop the increased cortisol response from fasting
HMB and 6-keto progesterone is potent anti-catabolic.
I don't think the supplements you mention will be potent enough, but it depends on the dose. Aspirin and niacinamide lowers lipolysis, so now you're in a state of low glucose and fats at the same time, which will definitely trigger a stress response.
 

cyclops

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Why do you want to take any supplements during the fasting portion of the fast? Why not just fast?
 

Jon

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Last edited:

cyclops

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@Nick Borcic probably best to stay away from gelatin and it's isolated amigos (glycine) until dieting is over. It could hurt the gainz

Hydrolyzed collagen (gelatin) decreases food efficiency and the bioavailability of high-quality protein in rats

I don't think most people who are on a diet (aka caloric deficit) are consuming an ultra low protein diet (10-12%) as per this study. I think many people trying to lose bodyfat get a decent % of calories from protein.

Still, I wonder what the mechanism behind gelatin lowering food efficiency is on a very low protein diet.

I do not see why gelatin would hurt a person trying to lose body fat on a slight calorie deficit with decent intake of protein. In fact I think it would be good for all the reasons Ray claims it is a good food.
 

Jon

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I don't think most people who are on a diet (aka caloric deficit) are consuming an ultra low protein diet (10-12%) as per this study. I think many people trying to lose bodyfat get a decent % of calories from protein.

Still, I wonder what the mechanism behind gelatin lowering food efficiency is on a very low protein diet.

I do not see why gelatin would hurt a person trying to lose body fat on a slight calorie deficit with decent intake of protein. In fact I think it would be good for all the reasons Ray claims it is a good food.

Your protein requirements increase during calorie restriction for net muscle retention. Even more so when you engage in intense exercise.

I think glycine causes this deficiency because it's primary amino make up is inhibitory, where most other aminos are excitatory. When the excitatory bcaas are countered to a large degree they cannot exert their effects on things like mTOR which is inflammatory, but necessary for protein synthesis.

A person losing fat is incurring high circulating stress hormones so their body can catabolize fat tissue. This process actually sensitizes muscles to amino acids so the body may retain lean tissue during stress and even more so when some one engages in strength training simultaneously. If you mess with this process by ingesting inhibitory aminos but stay in a calorie deficit all you're really doing is blocking cells from utilizing the bcaas they need by inhibiting their excitation (which they need in this particular situation)
 

cyclops

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This seems to make sense. So when trying to lose bodyfat you only want excitatory amino acids, even if they are unbalanced, because thats what the body is seeking by becoming more sensitive to them. I guess gelatin only becomes beneficial during maintenance or bulking then.
 

cyclops

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@Jon, what is your opinion regarding IF for fat loss, say the popular 16/8 split, and supplements during the fasting portion?
 

Jon

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This seems to make sense. So when trying to lose bodyfat you only want excitatory amino acids, even if they are unbalanced, because thats what the body is seeking by becoming more sensitive to them. I guess gelatin only becomes beneficial during maintenance or bulking then.

Like I said this is why I THINK gelatin does this lol but I'm not a real scientist, I only know what I've read and what I've personally experienced.

In light of this though, I would think that it is best to avoid them unless maintaining or bulking. They're very healthy, which is more of a comment to the fact I think fat loss should be done in a very limited period of time so you can get back to eating healthy things like gelatin.
 

Jon

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@Jon, what is your opinion regarding IF for fat loss, say the popular 16/8 split, and supplements during the fasting portion?

I think it can work for healthy people to boost fat loss but not by the means they claim it will.

True fasting increases fat burning hormones but the power of fasting (aside from the autophagy it can induce) is really just in its ability to give you one bolus calorie deficit and diminish appetite by raising stress hormones to the point you lose hunger which can aid adherence. I've tried it and I noticed once 8hrs of fasting is done you basically just lose hunger. The back lash once you start eating is bad though, as it's easy to binge over your allotted calories ESPECIALLY when trying to maintain a deficit.

Also, fasting causes peripheral insulin resistance, and depletes liver glycogen which is no bueno.

Imo supplements sort of defeat the purpose of fasting except for maybe coffee as it will increase lipolysis during fasting.
 

cyclops

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True fasting increases fat burning hormones but the power of fasting (aside from the autophagy it can induce) is really just in its ability to give you one bolus calorie deficit and diminish appetite by raising stress hormones to the point you lose hunger which can aid adherence. I've tried it and I noticed once 8hrs of fasting is done you basically just lose hunger.

This has been my experience exactly, after a period of intense hunger, I stop being hungry. I also find the main benefit to be that if I go long enough without food that I only have time for 1 meal, I can eat until I'm satisfied and not go over calorie deficit, and then its time for bed. It would probably be better to space this food in small meals throughout the day, but once I start eating I am constantly hungry and will constantly think about food. Hope I'm not doing too much damage with the stress hormones, but this won't go on forever.
 

Jon

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This has been my experience exactly, after a period of intense hunger, I stop being hungry. I also find the main benefit to be that if I go long enough without food that I only have time for 1 meal, I can eat until I'm satisfied and not go over calorie deficit, and then its time for bed. It would probably be better to space this food in small meals throughout the day, but once I start eating I am constantly hungry and will constantly think about food. Hope I'm not doing too much damage with the stress hormones, but this won't go on forever.

I'm not one to argue against whatever gets you to your goal :) if it works for you then it works.

I'm too afraid of insulin resistance and the like so fasting isn't for me. I think it's more beneficial for muscle gain to have atleast 3 large protein meals a day, as anything less has been shown to induce liver augmentation (which says ingested protein isn't being utilized by skeletal muscle to some degree).
 
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Dude, you should take vitamin E or Aspirin without the starch before working out in a fasted state, to minimize release of PUFA from adipose, coz the PUFA will cause damage.

How do you know fasting increase DHT?
 
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Post workout it would be good to get calcium, fructose, niacinamide or aspirin to restore normal sugar metabolism. Milk, orange juice with baking soda, extra CO2 for examples.

Working out that long time in fasted state of course will increase adrenaline and can overstimulate HPA axis. Dangerous. Gets you wired. Better to do short high intensity workout instead.
 
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