Intermittent Fasting (IF) Ineffective And May Even Be Dangerous

haidut

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I have no doubt the findings of this study will quickly get dismissed by the massive industry that has formed around the idea that ANY weight loss is a good thing, and, just as importantly, if you lose weight while torturing yourself (in this with fasting) somehow the "gains" are even more worthwhile. Well, the lead author of the human study below abandoned his own multi-year intermittent fasting regimen after seeing the study results, and concluded the interview with the punchline - “Just losing weight alone doesn’t mean good things are happening for your health." Amen to that, and thank you for bringing some sanity into the dietary fads world that is starting to resemble more and more the methods of the Holly Spanish Inquisition. Aside from the lack of effectiveness for weight loss in the IF group there were also some negative results as well. The IF group lost muscle mass (known as sarcopenia), while the regular eating schedule group seems to have kept theirs largely intact. Losing muscle mass is universally considered a bad sign even by mainstream medicine since it has been shown to predict all-cause mortality (and disability in already sick people) better than any other metric, except possibly albumin levels. However, albumin and muscle mass are strongly correlated. So, muscle mass can be used as a good surrogate biomarker for albumin changes as well, and it is also a lot less invasive to measure. But, as the infomercials say, wait, there is more! The control group that did not practice IF had a reduction in systolic blood pressure, and also maintained their level of physical activity while there was a decrease in physical activity in the IF group. Finally, the sleep quality (PSQI) improved in the non-fasting group while it did not change in the IF group. In light of all these findings, it is no wonder the doctor not only promptly stopped his own IF regimen but also stopped recommending IF to his patients.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2771095?guestAccessKey=444bbcb2-7e13-4dc6-998f-5de5e27aa19e&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=092820

"...As measured by dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry (DXA), there was no significant change in whole body fat mass (FM) in the TRE (−0.51 kg; 95% CI, −1.17 kg to 0.15 kg; P = .13) or the CMT groups (−0.03 kg; 95% CI, −0.66 kg to 0.60 kg; P = .93), and there was no significant difference between groups (−0.48 kg; 99.7% CI, −1.75 kg to 0.79 kg; P = .30) (Table 3). There was a significant decrease in lean mass (calculated as fat-free mass minus bone mineral content) in the TRE (−1.10 kg; 95% CI, −1.73 kg to −0.48 kg; P < .001) but not in the CMT group (−0.35 kg; 95% CI, −0.95 kg to 0.25 kg; P = .25). There was no significant difference in lean mass between groups (−0.75 kg; 99.7% CI, −1.96 kg to 0.45 kg; P = .09). Appendicular lean mass (ALM) was decreased significantly in the TRE group (−0.64 kg; 95% CI, −0.89 kg to −0.39 kg; P < .001) but not in the CMT group (−0.17 kg; 95% CI, −0.41 kg to 0.07 kg; P = .16), and there was a significant difference between groups (−0.47 kg; 95% CI, −0.82 kg to −0.12 kg; P = .009). There was a significant decrease in appendicular lean mass index (ALMI) in the TRE group (−0.22 kg/m2; 95% CI, −0.30 kg/m2 to −0.14 kg/m2; P < .001) but not in the CMT group (−0.06 kg/m2; 95% CI, −0.14 kg/m2 to 0.02 kg/m2; P = .14). The difference in ALMI between groups was also significant (−0.16 kg/m2; 95% CI, −0.27 kg/m2 to −0.05 kg/m2; P = .005). Trunk lean mass significantly decreased in the TRE group (−0.47 kg; 95% CI, −0.88 kg to −0.06 kg; P = .02). There was no significant change in trunk lean mass in the CMT group (−0.15 kg; 95% CI, −0.54 kg to 0.24 kg; P = .45) or between groups (−0.32 kg; 95% CI, −0.89 kg to 0.25 kg; P = .27). For a comprehensive list of all body composition variables analyzed, see eTable 2 in Supplement 3."

"...There was no significant difference in systolic blood pressure in the TRE group (−1.69 mm Hg; 95% CI, −5.54 mm Hg to 2.15 mm Hg; P = .39), but there was a significant decrease in the CMT group (−3.86 mm Hg; 95% CI, −7.58 mm Hg to 0.14 mm Hg; P = .04) (eTable 1 in Supplement 3). There was no significant between-group difference in systolic blood pressure (2.17 mm Hg; 95% CI, −3.18 mm Hg to 7.52 mm Hg; P = .43)."

"...The Oura ring data also revealed a significant reduction in daily movement in the TRE group (−2102.14 au; 95% CI, −3162.54 au to −1041.73 au; P < .001) and between groups (−1673.44 au; 95% CI, −3211.11 au to −135.7 au; P = .03) but not in the CMT group (−428.70 au; 95% CI, −1542.25 au to 684.85 au; P = .45). There was a significant decrease in step count in the TRE group (−2498.89 steps; 95% CI, −3939.91 to −1057.88; P < .001) and between groups (−2241.41 steps; 95% CI, −4320.51 to −162.31; P = .04) but not in the CMT group (−257.48 steps; 95% CI, −1756.20 to 1241.23; P = .74)."

Intermittent fasting doesn't help you lose weight, UCSF study suggests

"...The study found “no evidence” that time-restricted eating works as a weight loss strategy. People who were assigned to eat at random times within a strict eight-hour window each day, skipping food in the morning, lost an average of around 2 pounds over a 12 week-period. Subjects who ate at normal meal times, with snacks permitted, lost 1.5 pounds. The difference was not “statistically significant,” according to the research team at UCSF. “I went into this hoping to demonstrate that this thing I’ve been doing for years works,” he said by phone. “But as soon as I saw the data, I stopped.”

"...Intermittent fasting, once a trend among self-styled “biohackers,” who use diet and lifestyle tweaks to try and improve their health, has become increasingly mainstream over the last decade. Instagram influencers regularly weigh in on the trend, and super-fit celebrities like Hugh Jackman have said it helps them get in shape for movie roles. In Silicon Valley, entrepreneur Kevin Rose launched an app called Zero to help people monitor their fasts, noting that the scientific data “starts to get pretty exciting.” Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey and the actress Jennifer Aniston also rank among the famous fans. With so many stars touting its benefits, in 2019, intermittent fasting was the top-trending diet search in Google, according to Google Trends data."

"...There may also be a potential downside to intermittent fasting. A smaller percentage of participants were asked by the researchers to come on-site for more advanced testing, including changes in fat mass, lean mass, fasting glucose, fasting insulin and so on. Through those measurements, researchers discovered people who engaged in time-restricted eating seemed to lose more muscle mass than the control group. Weiss says the outcome wasn’t definitive, but he is hoping to conduct further studies down the line."

"...But for now, he won’t be recommending it to his patients. “Just losing weight alone doesn’t mean good things are happening for your health,” he explained."
 

LadyRae

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I'm surprised that no one commented at all on this post.

I've noticed that throughout the Ray Peat sphere, there's a fair amount of frustration regarding fat loss. People want a method to lose fat but they also understand that traditional methods are stressful on the body and most people understand the negative consequences with that.

Glucuronidation is not well understood, and I don't believe that most people outside of this forum have even heard of it.

I just listened to the most recent podcast (#86) with you, Haidut (Georgi), and Danny Roddy and you went into quite some interesting detail regarding the dangers of dieting and over exercise; the stressed state... I commented there and I will comment again here that I think people would like more detailed information on how to go about fat loss without the negative consequences of stress.
 

Mazzle

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Desperate to loose weight and still clueless. The temptation to go back to IF is very very strong as that was the last time I ever lost weight but also the last time I crashed my metabolism and ended up gaining while fasting all the way back up to my heaviest weight now! I feel it ruined me but at the same time, there were results - at least initially. I ended up not only as fat as ever but also lost all my muscle, could hardly walk or get out of a chair and was very much 'end of life mindset' I am feeling more 'alive' since taking B1 and Rutin - they saved my life. But still fat. I am currently contemplating data driven fasting (Marty Kendall) which basically constantly monitors blood sugar levels and tries to adjust eating times to avoid the spikes when b glucose is still high. I don't know, desperate times and desperate measures. I just don't know where to go next but thought this might be an option as I still crave sugar.

My weight trend has relentlessly increased regardless of my dieting and exercise efforts over the last four years or so but since coming on this site has stabilised for the last six months and only changes by a 1lb or so either way. All this on nearly three meals a day! I am trying to have b'fast and lunch and dinner and actually starting to feel hunger sometimes! I can even now contemplate doing some exercise.

The lure of the IFasting sites is ever present and I see amazing results in other people. I also see that everyone starts off doing the min time fast they can get away with and see's results but eventually they have to extend their fasts to 16 hours or 18 and then 20 hours OMAD and then 72 hours fasting once a week or month. They wouldn't do this if it carried on working at lower fasting times!.
I also see a lot of amazing before and after pictures which are inspiring but am always tempted to ask.....'where did your hair go'? Especially noticeable in men, fasting seems to mean hair loss or greying hair.

I don't think I will go back to IF in honesty but agree with @LadyRae some guidelines and advice would be very much appreciated. I am honestly starting to believe that once you are fat, you will always be fat.
 

yerrag

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IF is indeed very popular.

Everyone I know with some popular problem like overweight or high cholesterol has either been doing it. They are happy being on it until they're not.

They just lose weight only to gain it back after they stop IF. If they don't stop it,there will be some blood markers showing up that turns worse. Eventually. Yet they are almost always on denial,saying it's just a coincidence. And what increases their denial is that everyone seems to be on that.bandwagon. Ahh... the delusion of thinking when everyone is doing it, then one must be doing something right.

I don't know how eating a third of two thirds less everyday is not going to lead to less nutrition that is harmful in the long run.

Just do a cronometer and see what cronometer says, if it's not obvious already.

Just on potassium alone, one would already be deficient on potassium intake. And being low on potassium already leads to one getting more overweight when he resumes normal eating.

Potassium deficiency already causes one's tissues to absorb less sugar. Especially after a meal. All that sugar going into the blood and not being absorbed causes blood sugar to build up only to have a lot of it convert to triglycerides by the liver with the insulin secretion induced by high blood sugar.

The person would become even more overweight/obese unless he goes back to IF. And when he goes back, he ends up becoming malnourished that he ends up seeing his doctor more often, and this is the road to more drugs and side effects, more surgeries, more visit to the suite called the ICU.
 

LadyRae

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I like that simple statement, "they are happy with it until they're not." It was a stage for me as well, that and keto and lots of running. Weight gain came on when I started introducing carbs back in, but I was desperate to improve my sleep and get my female cycle back...

What ended up working for me was eating multiple small meals throughout the day, low fat, ripe fruit, focusing on lean proteins and nutritional density. (Liver, heart, eggs, cilantro, fruit, gelatin, blended lemon, T3, and nicotine lozenges ?)

More walking, no running, no alcohol (I'm 3 years sober as of Aug. 4) , no grains, no processed foods. I heard a quote lately that I liked, "the fat you wear is the processed food you eat". Pay attention and avoid any food that you don't digest well.

The way I gained post keto and intermittent fasting slowly came off. Now at 44, (5'10") I am back to the 128 lb or so that I was before I started any of it. I don't even know why I started it, basically maybe I am drawn to biohacking...?

Lately I have really been impressed with ideal labs product, Diamant. It has the fantastic ability to lower cortisol. I think this is key to weight loss, that and smaller more frequent meals, not overeating, and proper sleep. Moderate movement throughout the day.... ?
 

frannybananny

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Apr 26, 2018
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Desperate to loose weight and still clueless. The temptation to go back to IF is very very strong as that was the last time I ever lost weight but also the last time I crashed my metabolism and ended up gaining while fasting all the way back up to my heaviest weight now! I feel it ruined me but at the same time, there were results - at least initially. I ended up not only as fat as ever but also lost all my muscle, could hardly walk or get out of a chair and was very much 'end of life mindset' I am feeling more 'alive' since taking B1 and Rutin - they saved my life. But still fat. I am currently contemplating data driven fasting (Marty Kendall) which basically constantly monitors blood sugar levels and tries to adjust eating times to avoid the spikes when b glucose is still high. I don't know, desperate times and desperate measures. I just don't know where to go next but thought this might be an option as I still crave sugar.

My weight trend has relentlessly increased regardless of my dieting and exercise efforts over the last four years or so but since coming on this site has stabilised for the last six months and only changes by a 1lb or so either way. All this on nearly three meals a day! I am trying to have b'fast and lunch and dinner and actually starting to feel hunger sometimes! I can even now contemplate doing some exercise.

The lure of the IFasting sites is ever present and I see amazing results in other people. I also see that everyone starts off doing the min time fast they can get away with and see's results but eventually they have to extend their fasts to 16 hours or 18 and then 20 hours OMAD and then 72 hours fasting once a week or month. They wouldn't do this if it carried on working at lower fasting times!.
I also see a lot of amazing before and after pictures which are inspiring but am always tempted to ask.....'where did your hair go'? Especially noticeable in men, fasting seems to mean hair loss or greying hair.

I don't think I will go back to IF in honesty but agree with @LadyRae some guidelines and advice would be very much appreciated. I am honestly starting to believe that once you are fat, you will always be fat.
You might try researching Niacin, which is one of Ray Peat's big recommends, and how it reduces lipids in the bloodstream, helps in weight loss and protects cardiovascular function. It also is a precursor to NAD+ which is in all body cells and is needed to increase SIRT1 levels (fountain of youth?). Just start reading and go down the rabbit hole and take one of the precursors niacin, niacinamide or nicotinamide. They even make NAD+ supplements now.


 
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals

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