Sucrose And Health

[Runenight201]

Lately I’ve noticed that it’s near impossible for me to feel fully vibrant with energy without some form of refined sucrose in my diet. I positively feel better with some syrup in my milk, or sugar on my sweet potatoes, but I wonder whether this is just because I am in a position of unoptimal metabolic health, and I have to use the sugar as an energy boost.

Milk and sweet potatoes without added sucrose just doesn’t taste right and won’t digest right for me. However, with sucrose, I feel so much better and alive.

In a truly healthy individual, is refined sucrose unnecessary? Is my dependence on sucrose because I’m metabolically unhealthy? Fruit won’t cut it, there are distinct times when I want refined sucrose and not fruit.

Or are we perhaps at a unique point in human evolution, where no one could truly be as healthy as we can be now, with our unlimited access to sucrose and the wide variety of foods we can eat.

 

[SOMO]

Lately I’ve noticed that it’s near impossible for me to feel fully vibrant with energy without some form of refined sucrose in my diet. I positively feel better with some syrup in my milk, or sugar on my sweet potatoes, but I wonder whether this is just because I am in a position of unoptimal metabolic health, and I have to use the sugar as an energy boost.

Milk and sweet potatoes without added sucrose just doesn’t taste right and won’t digest right for me. However, with sucrose, I feel so much better and alive.

In a truly healthy individual, is refined sucrose unnecessary? Is my dependence on sucrose because I’m metabolically unhealthy? Fruit won’t cut it, there are distinct times when I want refined sucrose and not fruit.

Or are we perhaps at a unique point in human evolution, where no one could truly be as healthy as we can be now, with our unlimited access to sucrose and the wide variety of foods we can eat.

Is refined sucrose necessary? No, because there's nothing in refined sucrose that can "fix" metabolism.
Sucrose itself boosts metabolism, which is good, but if you don't have the Vitamins and Minerals to back up that boosting, you will crash and burn.
If I just start adding more refined Sucrose to my diet (even honey and yes, even fruit), I get acne, indicating there is either some issue with the sugar itself and how it's digested OR there is an issue with my body/some deficiency/some excess that is causing the sugar to be digested improperly. I will say this: acne or not, sugar definitely makes me feel better mood-wise.

I think RP has stated very clearly that proper complete Glucose and Fat Oxidation can't happen without ALL of the B-vitamins.
In addition, the minerals also play important parts in putting the brakes or gas on metabolism.

I know from personal experience that a bit of Starch (big bowl of rice or oatmeal) satisfies a craving that is not fulfilled by HUGE quantities of fruit. Both foods have glucose, so it's not the glucose I'm craving when I crave starch.
I also know that a handful of nuts (even walnuts) can scratch an itch that a tiny piece of Sardine/Anchovy won't, but they're both PUFA heavy foods, so they should be interchangable if it's really bad PUFA I'm craving.. There are times I legitimiately crave PUFA nuts, and eating PUFA fish won't satisfy that craving. But there are also times when I crave PUFA seafood and eating nuts won't satisfy that craving.

I also know that 16 oz of Skim Milk on an empty stomach for me = Bloating + Gas.
But 16 oz of Whole Milk = normal digestion and no bloating. (Fat slows the digestion of lactose considerably, reducing lactose intolerance symptoms. It's possibly by combining sugar + sweet potato you're providing enough raw materials to burn the added sugar cleanly.)
Same with Kefir and Yogurt. Both are high in Lactic Acid but, at least for me, digest better than plain milk.


Nuance is important and the source of the sugar is important as well. Refined sucrose should not be a significant part of your diet, because it lacks nutrition (vitamins and minerals.)


tl;dr: Listen to your cravings, but also eat healthy. As long as you eat liver and egg yolks regularly, you can get away with a lot of "bad stuff" in your diet including nutritionally-void white sugar and even *GASP* GLUTEN WHEAT BREAD/PASTA/CAKES/PASTRIES. (Obviously not suggesting people go crazy on the wheat, but if you do, it's not necessarily doing damage to you unless you live an unhealthy life the majority of the time.)

 

[Dobbler]

Having the desire and need to eat (sugar) is a blessing. When you have none its very annoying.

 

[dreamcatcher]

Is refined sucrose necessary? No, because there's nothing in refined sucrose that can "fix" metabolism.
Sucrose itself boosts metabolism, which is good, but if you don't have the Vitamins and Minerals to back up that boosting, you will crash and burn.
If I just start adding more refined Sucrose to my diet (even honey and yes, even fruit), I get acne, indicating there is either some issue with the sugar itself and how it's digested OR there is an issue with my body/some deficiency/some excess that is causing the sugar to be digested improperly. I will say this: acne or not, sugar definitely makes me feel better mood-wise.

I think RP has stated very clearly that proper complete Glucose and Fat Oxidation can't happen without ALL of the B-vitamins.
In addition, the minerals also play important parts in putting the brakes or gas on metabolism.

I know from personal experience that a bit of Starch (big bowl of rice or oatmeal) satisfies a craving that is not fulfilled by HUGE quantities of fruit. Both foods have glucose, so it's not the glucose I'm craving when I crave starch.
I also know that a handful of nuts (even walnuts) can scratch an itch that a tiny piece of Sardine/Anchovy won't, but they're both PUFA heavy foods, so they should be interchangable if it's really bad PUFA I'm craving.. There are times I legitimiately crave PUFA nuts, and eating PUFA fish won't satisfy that craving. But there are also times when I crave PUFA seafood and eating nuts won't satisfy that craving.

I also know that 16 oz of Skim Milk on an empty stomach for me = Bloating + Gas.
But 16 oz of Whole Milk = normal digestion and no bloating. (Fat slows the digestion of lactose considerably, reducing lactose intolerance symptoms. It's possibly by combining sugar + sweet potato you're providing enough raw materials to burn the added sugar cleanly.)
Same with Kefir and Yogurt. Both are high in Lactic Acid but, at least for me, digest better than plain milk.


Nuance is important and the source of the sugar is important as well. Refined sucrose should not be a significant part of your diet, because it lacks nutrition (vitamins and minerals.)


tl;dr: Listen to your cravings, but also eat healthy. As long as you eat liver and egg yolks regularly, you can get away with a lot of "bad stuff" in your diet including nutritionally-void white sugar and even *GASP* GLUTEN WHEAT BREAD/PASTA/CAKES/PASTRIES. (Obviously not suggesting people go crazy on the wheat, but if you do, it's not necessarily doing damage to you unless you live an unhealthy life the majority of the time.)

I can second this as Ray Peat told me in an email that some added sugar won't do any harm in the presence of a well balanced diet.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Lately I’ve noticed that it’s near impossible for me to feel fully vibrant with energy without some form of refined sucrose in my diet. I positively feel better with some syrup in my milk, or sugar on my sweet potatoes, but I wonder whether this is just because I am in a position of unoptimal metabolic health, and I have to use the sugar as an energy boost.

Milk and sweet potatoes without added sucrose just doesn’t taste right and won’t digest right for me. However, with sucrose, I feel so much better and alive.

In a truly healthy individual, is refined sucrose unnecessary? Is my dependence on sucrose because I’m metabolically unhealthy? Fruit won’t cut it, there are distinct times when I want refined sucrose and not fruit.

Or are we perhaps at a unique point in human evolution, where no one could truly be as healthy as we can be now, with our unlimited access to sucrose and the wide variety of foods we can eat.

From what I understand fructose is needed for quite a few body functions and unhealthy people can not synthesize it very well. So you need a bit extra for now at least. I use lots of white sugar myself.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Some tribes around the world eat a lot of honey when they find it. I think it's a pygmy tribe that hold meat and honey as the most valuable foods. They could get as much as 1200 calories from honey alone. Honey and white sugar, micronutrient wise, aren't very different.
Carbohydrates , especially in the form of sucrose( from fruit, honey or white sugar) are very valuable. They replenish liver glycogen( fructose being the biggest driver of this effect), and feeds the cells of the body with atp while producing lots of co2. Calories are very important. Fruit is usually not very dense in calories, so if you don't eat a kilo or more per time, it probably won't satiate you much. The only caveat with white sugar is that it doesn't add micronutrients, but that can be solved with a nutrient rich diet( fruits, tubers, meat, liver,milk,etc), as well as with supplements( a combination of both would be the best in terms of results) . Getting enough calories feels good because they are critical for health. And also when you have ample amounts of energy, digestion is much more vigorous. I can now digest 200 grams of meat in one go since my metabolism is much more supported by sugar. And also I'm much less constipated. I think humans have always been attracted to energy dense things, even when in a healthy state and maybe even more in a healthier state, since the healthier you are, the more calories you can ingest without gaining fat, because of uncoupling.

 

[fradon]

Lately I’ve noticed that it’s near impossible for me to feel fully vibrant with energy without some form of refined sucrose in my diet. I positively feel better with some syrup in my milk, or sugar on my sweet potatoes, but I wonder whether this is just because I am in a position of unoptimal metabolic health, and I have to use the sugar as an energy boost.

Milk and sweet potatoes without added sucrose just doesn’t taste right and won’t digest right for me. However, with sucrose, I feel so much better and alive.

In a truly healthy individual, is refined sucrose unnecessary? Is my dependence on sucrose because I’m metabolically unhealthy? Fruit won’t cut it, there are distinct times when I want refined sucrose and not fruit.

Or are we perhaps at a unique point in human evolution, where no one could truly be as healthy as we can be now, with our unlimited access to sucrose and the wide variety of foods we can eat.

sugar is a stimulant and it can help speed up the thyroid. i also feel a lot better with just plain sugar. i think for me its from the dopamine hit i get from it.

 

[Runenight201]

Thank you for the answers.

I will continue to use sugar according to appetite and not trip up too much about it.

There are definite times when I need sugar and times when I need meat/starch, and much of my ill health usually comes when I misjudge what my body needs given my physiological state.

 

[abruzzi]

I just signed up today. This is all so new to me and a different way of thinking. I'm a bit afraid of eating so much sugar, even fructose.

Maybe it was a mere coincidence but I went through a period where I was eating a lot of fruit. I loved pomegranates.

I felt great! It was like a surge of energy that I could literally feel..

But, without realizing it, I literally blew up. It seemed to, almost on a daily basis, need to move up a notch on my belt buckle. I even had to go buy a new belt.

Maybe I wasn't watching my PUFAs. Maybe that was the reason. But this system is hard to wrap my brain around. It goes against all I learned from people like Dr. Gundry and Dr. Mercola.

I'm giving it a shot. I hope I don't get fat again. LOL

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

I just signed up today. This is all so new to me and a different way of thinking. I'm a bit afraid of eating so much sugar, even fructose.

Maybe it was a mere coincidence but I went through a period where I was eating a lot of fruit. I loved pomegranates.

I felt great! It was like a surge of energy that I could literally feel..

But, without realizing it, I literally blew up. It seemed to, almost on a daily basis, need to move up a notch on my belt buckle. I even had to go buy a new belt.

Maybe I wasn't watching my PUFAs. Maybe that was the reason. But this system is hard to wrap my brain around. It goes against all I learned from people like Dr. Gundry and Dr. Mercola.

I'm giving it a shot. I hope I don't get fat again. LOL

If you are adapted to burning fat or if your liver health isnt the best, you are probably going to gain some weight . Using good doses of niacinamide, thiamin, vitamin D, vitamin k2( mk4), taurine, salt and caffeine can be very helpful. I think methylene blue can help too. Eating a very low fat diet can be helpful to deplete PUFA, but that is more safely done with some vitamin E supplementation, since stored PUFA is an issue. Once your tissues are more saturated, you can eat very low fat if you want to, without risking releasing a bunch of PUFA in the bloodstream. A low fat diet can help you lose or maintain your weight . Make sure your mineral and vitamin intake are good to utilize well the carbs. Keep PUFA intake low( less than 4 grams; less than 2 is even better.). Knowing if your thyroid hormone production is ok is important as well. Pulse and temperatures are good indicators.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

I just signed up today. This is all so new to me and a different way of thinking. I'm a bit afraid of eating so much sugar, even fructose.

Maybe it was a mere coincidence but I went through a period where I was eating a lot of fruit. I loved pomegranates.

I felt great! It was like a surge of energy that I could literally feel..

But, without realizing it, I literally blew up. It seemed to, almost on a daily basis, need to move up a notch on my belt buckle. I even had to go buy a new belt.

Maybe I wasn't watching my PUFAs. Maybe that was the reason. But this system is hard to wrap my brain around. It goes against all I learned from people like Dr. Gundry and Dr. Mercola.

I'm giving it a shot. I hope I don't get fat again. LOL

Welcome, btw!

 

[Runenight201]

I have come to see that sugar isn’t bad in of itself, but the abuse of sugar is.

As @SOMO alluded to with b-vitamins and glucose oxidation, eating more meat and eggs in my diet has allowed me to tolerate many more foods than when I was not eating much meat and eggs.

Pairing pure sugar with meat/eggs is fine and usually very pro-metabolic in my experience. Other than that, the only times sugar doesn’t cause problems for me is when I just finished an intense workout, and the sugars are necessary to quickly re-energize my system from the intense energy depleting activity. I have found that Dole’s banana, pineapple, and apple juice to be the best for this.

For most other times, consuming fruit or sugar on its own makes me go cold and urinate frequently, plus I can feel the weakening of my enamel and the overexcitement of my system.

Meat and eggs are great for muscle strength as well, and I have found my muscles feeling much harder as opposed to when I wasn’t consuming much meat and eggs.

Milk consumption is way down for me. I total consume maybe a cup a day, usually in the form of mashed potatoes, creamy grits, or Mac n cheese, all foods which I have found to be very pro-metabolic and fill a hunger that no other food on its own will fill. I homemake everything, as the store bought versions of these foods are loaded with additives and vegetable oil.

If I don’t load the starches with milk, salt, butter, and cheese, they don’t satiate and I am left hungry and hypo, but when I load them up, I am satiated, warm, and content for hours. It is also easier to fast (due to being out and about and not having optimal food availability) when my last meal was very calorically dense.

Obviously it’s very easy to gain weight with fatty starches, but I do think my situation is unique, as I require many calories to maintain proper sleep and energy throughout the day, and so without the calorically dense fatty starches, I become hungry too frequently and resultantly have bad moods and energies.

I try and keep the butter added onto the starches just enough to make them smooth, but not overly done so that it’s drenched in it. I essentially keep adding in all the ingredients little by little, until I get my starch to taste “just right”, and then I sit and enjoy my feast, usually with meat/eggs and some sugar in the form of fruit juice or soda.

 

[abruzzi]

If you are adapted to burning fat or if your liver health isnt the best, you are probably going to gain some weight . Using good doses of niacinamide, thiamin, vitamin D, vitamin k2( mk4), taurine, salt and caffeine can be very helpful. I think methylene blue can help too. Eating a very low fat diet can be helpful to deplete PUFA, but that is more safely done with some vitamin E supplementation, since stored PUFA is an issue. Once your tissues are more saturated, you can eat very low fat if you want to, without risking releasing a bunch of PUFA in the bloodstream. A low fat diet can help you lose or maintain your weight . Make sure your mineral and vitamin intake are good to utilize well the carbs. Keep PUFA intake low( less than 4 grams; less than 2 is even better.). Knowing if your thyroid hormone production is ok is important as well. Pulse and temperatures are good indicators.

Thanks. It seems very complicated. I've been eating fruit with different cheeses the past two days and I like heavy cream in my coffee. I've been adding some honey. My understand is that dairy fat is OK. Hope that's right

I don't know. I'm not eating much but I'm also not all that hungry.

I've obviously got to branch out and eat more than basically cheese and fruit, LOL..

I also tried some orange juice with collagen peptides.

 

[abruzzi]

I have come to see that sugar isn’t bad in of itself, but the abuse of sugar is.

As @SOMO alluded to with b-vitamins and glucose oxidation, eating more meat and eggs in my diet has allowed me to tolerate many more foods than when I was not eating much meat and eggs.

Pairing pure sugar with meat/eggs is fine and usually very pro-metabolic in my experience. Other than that, the only times sugar doesn’t cause problems for me is when I just finished an intense workout, and the sugars are necessary to quickly re-energize my system from the intense energy depleting activity. I have found that Dole’s banana, pineapple, and apple juice to be the best for this.

For most other times, consuming fruit or sugar on its own makes me go cold and urinate frequently, plus I can feel the weakening of my enamel and the overexcitement of my system.

Meat and eggs are great for muscle strength as well, and I have found my muscles feeling much harder as opposed to when I wasn’t consuming much meat and eggs.

Milk consumption is way down for me. I total consume maybe a cup a day, usually in the form of mashed potatoes, creamy grits, or Mac n cheese, all foods which I have found to be very pro-metabolic and fill a hunger that no other food on its own will fill. I homemake everything, as the store bought versions of these foods are loaded with additives and vegetable oil.

If I don’t load the starches with milk, salt, butter, and cheese, they don’t satiate and I am left hungry and hypo, but when I load them up, I am satiated, warm, and content for hours. It is also easier to fast (due to being out and about and not having optimal food availability) when my last meal was very calorically dense.

Obviously it’s very easy to gain weight with fatty starches, but I do think my situation is unique, as I require many calories to maintain proper sleep and energy throughout the day, and so without the calorically dense fatty starches, I become hungry too frequently and resultantly have bad moods and energies.

I try and keep the butter added onto the starches just enough to make them smooth, but not overly done so that it’s drenched in it. I essentially keep adding in all the ingredients little by little, until I get my starch to taste “just right”, and then I sit and enjoy my feast, usually with meat/eggs and some sugar in the form of fruit juice or soda.

Well, any diet that allows for mac and Cheese can't be all that bad. I haven't had Mac and Cheese in forever.

 

[abruzzi]

I have come to see that sugar isn’t bad in of itself, but the abuse of sugar is.

As @SOMO alluded to with b-vitamins and glucose oxidation, eating more meat and eggs in my diet has allowed me to tolerate many more foods than when I was not eating much meat and eggs.

Pairing pure sugar with meat/eggs is fine and usually very pro-metabolic in my experience. Other than that, the only times sugar doesn’t cause problems for me is when I just finished an intense workout, and the sugars are necessary to quickly re-energize my system from the intense energy depleting activity. I have found that Dole’s banana, pineapple, and apple juice to be the best for this.

For most other times, consuming fruit or sugar on its own makes me go cold and urinate frequently, plus I can feel the weakening of my enamel and the overexcitement of my system.

Meat and eggs are great for muscle strength as well, and I have found my muscles feeling much harder as opposed to when I wasn’t consuming much meat and eggs.

Milk consumption is way down for me. I total consume maybe a cup a day, usually in the form of mashed potatoes, creamy grits, or Mac n cheese, all foods which I have found to be very pro-metabolic and fill a hunger that no other food on its own will fill. I homemake everything, as the store bought versions of these foods are loaded with additives and vegetable oil.

If I don’t load the starches with milk, salt, butter, and cheese, they don’t satiate and I am left hungry and hypo, but when I load them up, I am satiated, warm, and content for hours. It is also easier to fast (due to being out and about and not having optimal food availability) when my last meal was very calorically dense.

Obviously it’s very easy to gain weight with fatty starches, but I do think my situation is unique, as I require many calories to maintain proper sleep and energy throughout the day, and so without the calorically dense fatty starches, I become hungry too frequently and resultantly have bad moods and energies.

I try and keep the butter added onto the starches just enough to make them smooth, but not overly done so that it’s drenched in it. I essentially keep adding in all the ingredients little by little, until I get my starch to taste “just right”, and then I sit and enjoy my feast, usually with meat/eggs and some sugar in the form of fruit juice or soda.

Well, any diet that allows for mac and Cheese can't be all that bad. I have