What Is Peat's General Stance On Fruit Sugars Vs Sucrose

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I am a little confused. If one were to look purely at the health benefit of the sugar content of fruit sugar vs white table sugar, and we disregard the other enzymes and minerals in fruit.... I do not see where there is an advantage to consuming fruit sugars vs table sugar (sucrose). As the content seems so nearly identical to me.... Sucrose is a disaccharide of 50% glucose and 50% fructose, where as something like orange juice has roughly 42% sucrose, 28% glucose, and 30% fructose.... the ratio of the sugars is nearly identical to the amount of glucose and fructose in sucrose....

Is there a health advantage to fruit in that it contains the monosaccharides form along with the disaccharide?

From the reading of RP that I have done, I see the value of fructose over glucose referenced often, and also have the impression now that he prefers fruit sugar to pure sucrose... but I haven't exactly figured out why that is. I can understand the benefits of sucrose or fruit sugars over starch,,, however sucrose vs fruit is where I get lost..... Please help me understand what I am missing.
 

Captain_Coconut

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Aside from the vitamins and minerals etc.; purely based on the sugars is there a benefit?
 

DaveFoster

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Aside from the vitamins and minerals etc.; purely based on the sugars is there a benefit?
He preferred table sugar (within Mexican coke) over starch.
 

Cirion

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DISCLAIMER:
This is just my opinion and NOT RP necessarily -

Fruit sugars, are pretty much equivalent to sucrose in most cases, because Sucrose = 1:1 fructose:glucose, and most fruits are 1:1 fructose:glucose.

There are some exceptions.

Apples have almost 2:1 fructose to glucose ratio, and disregarding the potential pesticides from apple skins, you can make the case that apples are almost the best sugars you can get, at least in a person with liver glucose storage problems & insulin resistance, because Fructose bypasses the insulin response, thus bypassing insulin resistance almost entirely.

I believe honey is about the highest fructose:glucose ratio food you can get? So it can be really good.

Pure fructose powder would be about the most ideal in liver challenged individuals. I have heard a few forum members here doing this, in fact.

Disregarding the mineral/vitamin/fiber content of fruit, you're correct, there is no difference in nutrition from fruit vs. straight sucrose. However, fruit is far more satiating, so it's harder to overeat.
 
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"Refined granulated sugar is extremely pure, but it lacks all of the essential nutrients, so it should be considered as a temporary therapeutic material, or as an occasional substitute when good fruit isn't available, or when available honey is allergenic."-RP

He preferred table sugar (within Mexican coke) over starch.

I doubt he would say that regarding one's only carbohydrate source, coke would be better than potatoes, the keyword there being "only" in carbohydrate source. Fruit/lactose and the come the others, in his view but if you isolate to just coke vs. "starch" you have to be specific.
 

tara

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If one were to look purely at the health benefit of the sugar content of fruit sugar vs white table sugar, and we disregard the other enzymes and minerals in fruit
I don't see any good reason to disregard that, since it's probably really important.
 

Captain_Coconut

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I don't see any good reason to disregard that, since it's probably really important.
I was just trying to figure out if I was missing anything. From further investigation now it looks to me RP favoring fruit has to do with all the other benefits rather than some special character of the sugar vs sucrose, with perhaps the exception of case specific benefits from higher fruits with higher fructose to glucose ratio.
 

DaveFoster

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"Refined granulated sugar is extremely pure, but it lacks all of the essential nutrients, so it should be considered as a temporary therapeutic material, or as an occasional substitute when good fruit isn't available, or when available honey is allergenic."-RP



I doubt he would say that regarding one's only carbohydrate source, coke would be better than potatoes, the keyword there being "only" in carbohydrate source. Fruit/lactose and the come the others, in his view but if you isolate to just coke vs. "starch" you have to be specific.
He would prefer table sugar and fruit over starch.
 

tara

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He would prefer table sugar and fruit over starch.
I guess stiff collars haven't been Peat's thing. :)

I've read Peat to say that he'd generally favour good quality ripe fruit when available [which they often aren't for many people] over starchy foods.

But I'd hazard that he may have described potatoes as good food more often than he has refined sucrose (expect occasionally/temporarily/supplementally for people with particular dysbiosis etc).
 

DaveFoster

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I guess stiff collars haven't been Peat's thing. :)

I've read Peat to say that he'd generally favour good quality ripe fruit when available [which they often aren't for many people] over starchy foods.

But I'd hazard that he may have described potatoes as good food more often than he has refined sucrose (expect occasionally/temporarily/supplementally for people with particular dysbiosis etc).
Yeah, so we could make this equation:

Table Sugar + Fruit > Starch

Fruit > Table Sugar

Fruit > Starch

Starch > Table Sugar

And here's your collar:

 

tara

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Table Sugar + Fruit > Starch

Fruit > Table Sugar

Fruit > Starch

Starch > Table Sugar
Or one might interpret Peat like this for some of us:
good quality agreeable ripe fruit > well-cooked agreeable roots and tubers > refined sucrose > bad/unripe/allergenic/irritating fruit > uncooked starch > allergenic etc grains

(But some people experience it more like this:

roots and tubers > good quality ripe fruit > refined sucrose > bad/unripe fruit ...

And that's leaving out some options, but for most people only some of those options are regularly accessible.)
 

DaveFoster

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Or one might interpret Peat like this for some of us:
good quality agreeable ripe fruit > well-cooked agreeable roots and tubers > refined sucrose > bad/unripe/allergenic/irritating fruit > uncooked starch > allergenic etc grains

(But some people experience it more like this:

roots and tubers > good quality ripe fruit > refined sucrose > bad/unripe fruit ...

And that's leaving out some options, but for most people only some of those options are regularly accessible.)
It's expensive to eat fruit all the time. He's mentioned cooked apples as a good source of carbohydrate, so he prefers cooked starchy fruit (not bananas) over cooked starchy tubers.

He's spoken favorably about rice and even oatmeal; I've never heard him speak favorably about uncooked starch. Undercooked starch has horrible effects. I got sick for the first time in years after eating some severely undercooked rice.
 

tara

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He's mentioned cooked apples as a good source of carbohydrate, so he prefers cooked starchy fruit (not bananas) over cooked starchy tubers.
You think he prefers uncooked starch over grains? He's spoken favorably about rice and even oatmeal, those being exceptions.
Good point. For people with advanced coeliacs, some grains are the worst. There are more options not included, and I really think it gets down to individual tolerances and available foods, but is this better?
good quality agreeable ripe fruit >cooked non-starchy fruits > well-cooked agreeable roots and tubers + cooked starchy fruits > refined sucrose > bad/unripe/allergenic/irritating fruit > relatively agreeable grains > uncooked starch > allergenic etc grains
 

DaveFoster

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Good point. For people with advanced coeliacs, some grains are the worst. There are more options not included, and I really think it gets down to individual tolerances and available foods, but is this better?
:emoji_ok_hand:

@charlie
We should have stickies.
 

ilikecats

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Im sure peat would still prefer table sugar to starch even if that was the only available source of carbohydrate (outside of milk) for a day or maybe even more. Im pretty sure Peat himself has said that he NEVER eats starch except masa harina once in a full moon. He never eats potatoes. Table sugar is the bees knees and you should be getting plenty of vitamins and minerals from elsewhere in your diet so it shouldnt even be an issue... In my opinion all starches suck hard. Potatoes were actually the worst offender for me when I was hypo (inflammation, lowered libido brain fog). The best one was white rice but that gave me weird ejaculation problems and enlargement of the chest area probably because of the 5-Ar inhibition. I know someones gonna say "thats only rice bran" but im pretty sure rice still has some of the same or similar chemicals in it. I was on propecia at one time though so keep that in mind I doubt anyone without that kind of history would get similar symptoms. Table sugars just pure beautiful refined fuel I don't get why people on here dont eat more of it.
 
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ilikecats

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If you have really high caloric requirements I think its (white sugar) almost necessary for achieving optimal health. It cuts down on water intake and pretty much every type of fruit is compromised in some way.
 

ilikecats

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and thats what basically rice is... just fuel.... oh wait you get a whopping 55mg potassium per 1 cup of cooked rice and .1 grams of pufa
 

ilikecats

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“I only eat starches in social situations where I have to come off NT to keep my place in the social dominance hierarchy. They raise endotoxin and irritate the GI tract setting off a cascade of stress responses including raising the inflammatory cytokines.”- Jordan Peterson. Even this forum's lord and savior sweet JP avoids the starches
 
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