Honey Gets Much Better Results Than Sucrose

[zarrin77]

I’ve seen a lot of talk here about using refined table sugar and pop to help increase sugar intake. Not only does this advice go against repeated long term human RCTs, but it just doesn’t make sense when there are much better options such as fruit, fruit juice, and honey.

Adding sucrose to the diets of rodents (like humans) tends to get negative results. Their bodyweight doesn’t usually go up by much (it did in this study though), but the fat:protein ratio increases quite a bit, and their blood lipids get worse.

Here is a great study comparing sugar-free diet, 7.9% sucrose diet, and 10% honey diet (since honey isn’t 100% sugar, these %’s keep the sugar amount constant).

The Long-Term Effects of Feeding Honey Compared With Sucrose and a Sugar-Free Diet on Weight Gain, Lipid Profiles, and DEXA Measurements in Rats - PubMed

I say this phrase a lot here, but I just see it so often: Let’s not miss the forest for the trees.
Yes, sugar can definitely be useful to us, and getting a healthy supply of sugar from real foods isn’t going to cause any issues. Yet, this is not the same as adding extra table sugar to your milk, coffee, etc.

Personally, I use agave for my coffee as a natural sugar source:
Effects of Agave Nectar Versus Sucrose on Weight Gain, Adiposity, Blood Glucose, Insulin, and Lipid Responses in Mice - PubMed

“Weight gain (4.3±2.2 vs. 8.4±3.4 g), fat pad weights (0.95±0.54 vs. 1.75±0.66 g), plasma glucose (77.8±12.2 vs. 111.0±27.9 mg/dL), and insulin (0.61±0.29 vs. 1.46±0.81 ng/mL) were significantly lower (P≤.05) for agave nectar-fed mice compared to sucrose-fed mice respectively. No statistically significant differences in total cholesterol or triglycerides were detected. These results suggest that in comparison to sucrose, agave nectar may have a positive influence on weight gain and glucose control.”

 

[Jib]

I like raw honey. I have it in plain Greek yogurt all the time. It's great.

Doesn't it have chrysin and other compounds in it too? Same reason I would always prefer maple syrup to plain table sugar. If maple syrup weren't so expensive I'd be having a whole lot more of it. I only have it very rarely as a treat. But it's at least got some nutrients in it, many 'micronutrients' as well, I'm sure.

Never tried agave nectar. But I'm not opposed to it. I have issues with the idea of using plain sugar extensively. I basically draw the line at an energy drink, or an occasional bar of chocolate. Rest of the sugar in my diet comes from whole fruit, some fruit juices, and honey. Maple syrup and coconut palm sugar occasionally.

 

[Cloudhands]

would you be concerned with someone using honey as their main source of carbs? Ive heard it working for some people, and not for others, and was wondering if you had a mechanistic opinion on the matter

 

[Hans]

would you be concerned with someone using honey as their main source of carbs? Ive heard it working for some people, and not for others, and was wondering if you had a mechanistic opinion on the matter

Although it's better than sugar, it's still very low in micros, so I think it would be a bad idea, unless you're already hitting all your micros, which would be very difficult if you're only getting micros through meat sources.

 

[Cloudhands]

Although it's better than sugar, it's still very low in micros, so I think it would be a bad idea, unless you're already hitting all your micros, which would be very difficult if you're only getting micros through meat sources.

I was thinking about a quart to a half gal of milk, around a pound of ground beef, maple syrup in my coffee, couple of oysters with breakfast and dinner, liver every 3rd day, 8oz of potatoes, 4 of these tostadas that are nixtemalized and have 250mg of calcium per and then 9tbsp of honey (3per meal) with a tsp of bee pollen per tbsp of honey all with energin, wholefood vitamin C, tocovit, vitamin K and lots of sunshine. All for convenience tbh, lmk if you think im stupid

 

[Cloudhands]

Although it's better than sugar, it's still very low in micros, so I think it would be a bad idea, unless you're already hitting all your micros, which would be very difficult if you're only getting micros through meat sources.

Throw in some(2-3) egg yolks as well

 

[Hans]

I was thinking about a quart to a half gal of milk, around a pound of ground beef, maple syrup in my coffee, couple of oysters with breakfast and dinner, liver every 3rd day, 8oz of potatoes, 4 of these tostadas that are nixtemalized and have 250mg of calcium per and then 9tbsp of honey (3per meal) with a tsp of bee pollen per tbsp of honey all with energin, wholefood vitamin C, tocovit, vitamin K and lots of sunshine. All for convenience tbh, lmk if you think im stupid

Throw in some(2-3) egg yolks as well

Looks like a good diet man. You're hitting all your micros so extra honey and maple syrup should work great. I'm all about convenience too so I totally get it.

 

[yerrag]

While Ray has been in favor of refined sugar, he has mentioned that what it lacks are minerals. As compared to the brown sugar such as muscovado (not the brown sugar that's really refined sugar colored with sprinkles of molasses).

Hands down honey is better than sugar, as it not only has more minerals, but it's also anti-bacterial. I keep a bottle with me but I use it as part of a poultice with crushed garlic mostly. Lately, I got buckwheat honey as it's a cheaper version of Manuka, not overmarketed and overpriced, and I take it for its antibiotic properties. But because of price, I'm not looking to replace refined sugar with it anytime soon.

Refined sugar is cost-effective when you're mixing it with juice that's not sweet enough, such as citrus, which already contains a lot of minerals.

But I eat fruits for the potassium mostly, and if it's already sweet the. better. If it lacks sweetness, refined sugar will do very well. Plus, refined sugar has a neutral taste, so it doesn't overpower the fruit juice taste.

I eat rice as a staple, and I eat it with potassium-rich meat, with salt for better taste, and I always have cooked green leaves for the calcium and the magnesium. But when I needed to make a concentrate, I replace the rice with either refined sugar or honey. I've done this to make. blended food for my mom before. It works very well, as I don't see refined sugar very different from rice - except that it has fructose, which isn't in any way a negative, and that it is easier for people who have difficulty eating.

I even find refined sugar to be very helpful, and a must add to vegetable juices (when one has normal sugar metabolism, like me). Veggie juices are very rich in potassium, and short on sugar. Less informed people see that as a positive, but too much potassium and too little sugar really will cause too much blood sugar to be absorbed into tissues, causing blood sugar levels to drop quickly. This will leave one hungry, or tired, or sleepy, and people not observant nor knowledgeable enough will experience this cognitive dissonance, and say 'how healthy it is to have veggie juices, I feel so inspired and healthy.'

 

[zarrin77]

While Ray has been in favor of refined sugar, he has mentioned that what it lacks are minerals. As compared to the brown sugar such as muscovado (not the brown sugar that's really refined sugar colored with sprinkles of molasses).

Hands down honey is better than sugar, as it not only has more minerals, but it's also anti-bacterial. I keep a bottle with me but I use it as part of a poultice with crushed garlic mostly. Lately, I got buckwheat honey as it's a cheaper version of Manuka, not overmarketed and overpriced, and I take it for its antibiotic properties. But because of price, I'm not looking to replace refined sugar with it anytime soon.

Refined sugar is cost-effective when you're mixing it with juice that's not sweet enough, such as citrus, which already contains a lot of minerals.

But I eat fruits for the potassium mostly, and if it's already sweet the. better. If it lacks sweetness, refined sugar will do very well. Plus, refined sugar has a neutral taste, so it doesn't overpower the fruit juice taste.

I eat rice as a staple, and I eat it with potassium-rich meat, with salt for better taste, and I always have cooked green leaves for the calcium and the magnesium. But when I needed to make a concentrate, I replace the rice with either refined sugar or honey. I've done this to make. blended food for my mom before. It works very well, as I don't see refined sugar very different from rice - except that it has fructose, which isn't in any way a negative, and that it is easier for people who have difficulty eating.

I even find refined sugar to be very helpful, and a must add to vegetable juices (when one has normal sugar metabolism, like me). Veggie juices are very rich in potassium, and short on sugar. Less informed people see that as a positive, but too much potassium and too little sugar really will cause too much blood sugar to be absorbed into tissues, causing blood sugar levels to drop quickly. This will leave one hungry, or tired, or sleepy, and people not observant nor knowledgeable enough will experience this cognitive dissonance, and say 'how healthy it is to have veggie juices, I feel so inspired and healthy.'

One thing that isn’t talked about much here are polyphenols. Polyphenols are not “toxins”, though they can induce a *beneficial* hormetic response (through the NRF2 and Antioxidant Response Element (ARE) cascade, among other ways).

Various types of polyphenols have shown to play an intimate role in glucose handling and helping to utilize glucose/fructose towards energy-generating pathways rather than towards lipogenesis - eventually being deposited as fat in the liver or adipose tissue. They almost always helps to decrease inflammation by blocking the effects of endotoxin and somtimes NLRP3 & nF-kB (mastor regulators of inflammation).

Honey, fruits, and non-filtered fruit juices (which get the best results in human RCTs compared with filtered) all are abundant in various types of polyphenols.

Lastly, the diets of “blue zones” and centenarians are loaded with polyphenols as well. Can’t draw causation from this, but is supports the rodent data and the human RCTs, and acts as futher evidence that they are not “toxins”.

I agree with the minerals, but I believe the polyphenols / phytonutrients also play a large role. This is also the reason that unrefined coconut oil gets such better results than refined coconut oil [copra oil in research]. In fact, I think this is a prime example, becuase there is little other differences between the oils besides the fact that refined coconut oil has less polyphenols:
Virgin Coconut Oil Improves Hepatic Lipid Metabolism in Rats--Compared With Copra Oil, Olive Oil and Sunflower Oil - PubMed
Effect of Virgin Coconut Oil Enriched Diet on the Antioxidant Status and Paraoxonase 1 Activity in Ameliorating the Oxidative Stress in Rats - A Comparative Study - PubMed

 

[yerrag]

Those are very good points. I've not appreciated phytophenols much until recently. I'm now incorporating them thru TCM herbs, and have been using Ceylon cinnamon for its abundance of proanthocyanidines as a biofilm buster. But I'm just scratching the surface, and am learning more. about them.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Yes, sugar can definitely be useful to us, and getting a healthy supply of sugar from real foods isn’t going to cause any issues. Yet, this is not the same as adding extra table sugar to your milk, coffee, etc.

Layne Norton, that you?

 

[EIRE24]

I was thinking about a quart to a half gal of milk, around a pound of ground beef, maple syrup in my coffee, couple of oysters with breakfast and dinner, liver every 3rd day, 8oz of potatoes, 4 of these tostadas that are nixtemalized and have 250mg of calcium per and then 9tbsp of honey (3per meal) with a tsp of bee pollen per tbsp of honey all with energin, wholefood vitamin C, tocovit, vitamin K and lots of sunshine. All for convenience tbh, lmk if you think im stupid

Sounds like a very healthy diet mate!

 

[Cloudhands]

Sounds like a very healthy diet mate!

Looks like a good diet man. You're hitting all your micros so extra honey and maple syrup should work great. I'm all about convenience too so I totally get it.

Thanks for some validation gentlemen!
The only thing i seem to have trouble hitting on 100% is folate. Perhaps i i could replace honey with a few oranges...although ive been eating a 100% local diet and it would be a bummer to have to break it. Oranges dont grow right now in michigan

 

[ecstatichamster]

Dr. Peat has warned that maple syrup can induce allergies, and so can honey. Something to be aware of.

 

[Cloudhands]

Dr. Peat has warned that maple syrup can induce allergies, and so can honey. Something to be aware of.

Ive Ive noticed that the acute and slight allergic reactions i have from honey (usually a congested throat feeling) go away if i eat a tsp of ground bee pollen first. Eating the bee pollen also makes me enjoy the taste of honey more. I wonder what kind of synergy could be at play

 

[success23]

Put some sliced lemon in honey. Tastes amazing.

 

[Sefton10]

Ive Ive noticed that the acute and slight allergic reactions i have from honey (usually a congested throat feeling) go away if i eat a tsp of ground bee pollen first. Eating the bee pollen also makes me enjoy the taste of honey more. I wonder what kind of synergy could be at play

Not sure if you still do the honey, but 'bee bread' is nice. Just dump a load of bee pollen in some raw honey, stir it up in a jar and let it sit for a few days, stirring again every now and then. It really thickens up, almost like toffee.

 

[Nomane Euger]

Dont you get stomach upset from to much pollen?i can eat 300 grammes of raw organic honey confortably but bee pollen **** me up

Not sure if you still do the honey, but 'bee bread' is nice. Just dump a load of bee pollen in some raw honey, stir it up in a jar and let it sit for a few days, stirring again every now and then. It really thickens up, almost like toffee.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Dont you get stomach upset from to much pollen?i can eat 300 grammes of raw organic honey confortably but bee pollen **** me up

me too. Bee pollen gives me a stomach ache.

 

[Nomane Euger]

me too. Bee pollen gives me a stomach ache.

me too. Bee pollen gives me a stomach ache.

My breathing become the one of a dying animal after I eat bee pollen lol