Does Processed Sugar Use Magnesium?

[zooma]

post 113883 I don't really need to find the quotes as I've spoken with him about this issue many times.

I think I've seen you mention before about having extensive communications with Ray, would you mind sharing them in the email advice section?

 

[Derek]

post 113923

post 113883 I don't really need to find the quotes as I've spoken with him about this issue many times.

I think I've seen you mention before about having extensive communications with Ray, would you mind sharing them in the email advice section?

I remember all the discussions, but didn't really save them. I didn't figure I would have to dig them up later to post on a forum.

 

[beachbum]

Hello,

I just wanted to add my thoughts here. I'm new to this and slowly changing things, I did try changing things in the past and ended with really bad experience going into it too fast and wrong, but believe RP has alot to offer. Now my thoughts on the talk about sugar, the one that keeps say sugar is not good for pancreas and insullin, I have read RP say frutouse is superior ( if I'm not mistaken ) and to have it with fat and protein not alone. I personally experiment with different ratios and foods. As for magnesium I get headaches from supplements. I did do some liquid from boiled beet greens and felt not good. I know coffee with cream/milk and sugar I feel good (not alot either like 1/2 cup about 3 a day) I do have a cigarette with it (total 4 cigs a day give or take 1) not always with coffee.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents

 

[Parsifal]

The Peat diet doesn't provide enough zinc in relation to the amount of sugar and other foods that deplete zinc. I wonder how all my bodybuilding friends who eat protein and starch with every meal are doing so well. They are the healthiest people I know. If you don't understand how sugar depletes zinc via insulin production, not much else to say really. That Peat quote on sugar, protein and fat; when he says carbs or sugar, that doesn't necessarily mean simple sugar. I feel potatoes fit well into that quote as it's still carbs/sugar.

What to do to increase zinc in the diet then? I've read that most zinc supplements are processed from rock and too big for the cells to be well utilized? Peat also said that zinc can be an oxydant like iron?
I almost can't eat starches because of the stress reaction I get from them so will stick to fruits and milk for now but I'm looking for a way to increase some minerals like zinc, selenium, magnesium, manganese and chromium because I feel that it can be depleted by sugar, does someone know.
@haidut alert .

 

[Parsifal]

I also wonder if zinc is prevented to be absorbed like copper and iron by milk or coffee?

 

[Giraffe]

I also wonder if zinc is prevented to be absorbed like copper and iron by milk or coffee?

Zinc is well absorbed from milk, the bioavailabilty from a diet high in animal proteins is good in general.

Does high calcium intake deplete zinc?

 

[Parsifal]

Zinc is well absorbed from milk, the bioavailabilty from a diet high in animal proteins is good in general.

Does high calcium intake deplete zinc?

Thank you Giraffe :).

 

[Capt Nirvana]

Ray often makes reference to William Budd and P.A Piorry about diabetes treatment. I can't speak much about Budd since I did not manage to put my hand on his book.
However, I got the book written by the french Pierre Alphonse Piorry, " la médecine du bon sens ", where he described his successful approach to treat diabetic patients with therapeutic amount of white sugar ( sometimes up to 500-600 grams of it ), starch and drastic reduction of water intake ( Matt Stone? ) as well as low protein amount. ( " Glucosurrhée; traitement " pages 291-299 in " La médecine du bon sens " ,1867 ).
Apparently mostly refined sugar and starches ( he didn't mention which but wrote defavorably about gluten ) was the tools used in his medical practice.
No need of potassium or added minerals substances to metabolize ( pure white ) sugar efficiently, at least according to his writtings and his successful treated patients. No zinc supplementation, no destruction of the exocrine and endocrine pancreas functions. I don't know much about his british fellow Budd ( he made references to a same medical approach of diabetes used by british doctors in London ( page 298 ) without mentioning names ), though.
As for " Nutrition for women ", there are still obscur quotes made by Ray in this book.....
E.g, sardines ( page 48 ) as being a very good sources of protein for people with enteritis, colitis, crohn's disease that should not interfere with thyroid function (?!). The last time I checked sardines were very very good sources of PUFA......

William Budd had his diabetes patients take as much as 8 ounces of sugar a day along with 4 ounces of honey. "Cure" is a loaded word, but he achieved remission of symptoms.

 

[Wilfrid]

William Budd had his diabetes patients take as much as 8 ounces of sugar a day along with 4 ounces of honey. "Cure" is a loaded word, but he achieved remission of symptoms.

OK, thank you very much for this info about Budd's therapeutic approach for diabetic patients.
You are right about the need for using the word " cure " with cautious.

 

[Amazoniac]

Who and What Drove Walter Kempner?

"Kempner, on the basis of his earlier cell metabolic studies and experiences in German departments of internal medicine, adapted a regimen to comply with the medical students’ challenge. The diet he designed consisted almost entirely of rice and fruit. The diet provided ≈2000 calories per day. Kempner occasionally reluctantly permitted addition of breads or treats. In essence, the diet comprised 4% to 5% protein (<20 g per day), 2% to 3% fat, and the rest was complex carbohydrates. The sodium content was 150 mg (<10 mmol/d). Fluid intake per day was restricted. Kempner was aware that white rice might be thiamine deficient and included a vitamin preparation. He also included citrate-containing fruit juices with the idea that any metabolic acidosis could be counteracted that way."

Walter Kempner, M and D - Founder of the Rice Diet

"Supplementary vitamins are added in the following amounts:
vitamin A 5,000 units
vitamin D 1,000 units
thiamine chloride 5 mg
riboflavin 5 mg
niacinamide 25 mg
calcium pantothenate 2 mg

However, none of the Rice Diet patients during five months of treatment showed any signs (epithelial, neural or metabolic) to make one suspect any vitamin deficiency."

"One reason Kempner chose rice was because he believed that rice proteids were easily assimilated and there was no concern about getting sufficient amounts of the essential amino acids. (This adequacy and completeness of proteid is not limited to rice, and is true for all starches, including corn, potatoes, and sweet potatoes.) He chose rice rather than another starch because in his day, nearly half of the world's population consumed large amounts of rice (sometimes rice made up 80% to 90% of their diet).

White rice, as opposed to brown whole-grain rice, was used because it was considered more palatable to the general public and was more readily available. Plain white rice contains about 8% of calories as proteid."​

"[..]the most important part of his postgraduate education was his time with the Nobel laureate Otto Warburg. “Do you know any chemistry?” “No,” Kempner replied. “How about physics?” Another “No” followed. “We don’t have any room for you, but you can sit in the corner for a couple of weeks and watch if you wish,” Warburg replied. Off-and-on, Kempner spent 3 years with Warburg. Three scientists who worked in Warburg’s laboratory, including Sir Hans Krebs, went on to win the Nobel Prize. Here, Kempner enjoyed a superb education in metabolism."

"The rice diet did not cure everybody. In Kempner’s original cohort of 192 people, 25 patients died. Of the remaining 167, 60 patients did not substantially improve their blood pressure values. However, 107 patients showed significant improvement (from 200/112 mm Hg to 149/96 mm Hg) with the diet. Heart size decreased in 66 of 72 patients. Serum cholesterol was reduced in 73 of 82 patients. Retinopathy was reduced or disappeared completely in 21 of 33 patients. We must keep these results in context with the times, during which the life expectancy of anyone with malignant hypertension was 6 months. Sympathectomy seemed to improve that state of affairs, but not in all patients. Understandably, improved and healed patients became zealous supporters of Kempner and his cause."

"The rice diet was subsequently extended to patients with nephrotic syndrome, hypercholesterolemia, diabetes mellitus, atherosclerosis, and subsequently obesity.16 And it worked, not in all patients but in many, for whom no other therapeutic options were open. There were numerous successes and reports with the rice diet."

 

[Wagner83]

Who and What Drove Walter Kempner?

"Kempner, on the basis of his earlier cell metabolic studies and experiences in German departments of internal medicine, adapted a regimen to comply with the medical students’ challenge. The diet he designed consisted almost entirely of rice and fruit. The diet provided ≈2000 calories per day. Kempner occasionally reluctantly permitted addition of breads or treats. In essence, the diet comprised 4% to 5% protein (<20 g per day), 2% to 3% fat, and the rest was complex carbohydrates. The sodium content was 150 mg (<10 mmol/d). Fluid intake per day was restricted. Kempner was aware that white rice might be thiamine deficient and included a vitamin preparation. He also included citrate-containing fruit juices with the idea that any metabolic acidosis could be counteracted that way."

Walter Kempner, M and D - Founder of the Rice Diet

"Supplementary vitamins are added in the following amounts:
vitamin A 5,000 units
vitamin D 1,000 units
thiamine chloride 5 mg
riboflavin 5 mg
niacinamide 25 mg
calcium pantothenate 2 mg

However, none of the Rice Diet patients during five months of treatment showed any signs (epithelial, neural or metabolic) to make one suspect any vitamin deficiency."

"One reason Kempner chose rice was because he believed that rice proteids were easily assimilated and there was no concern about getting sufficient amounts of the essential amino acids. (This adequacy and completeness of proteid is not limited to rice, and is true for all starches, including corn, potatoes, and sweet potatoes.) He chose rice rather than another starch because in his day, nearly half of the world's population consumed large amounts of rice (sometimes rice made up 80% to 90% of their diet).

White rice, as opposed to brown whole-grain rice, was used because it was considered more palatable to the general public and was more readily available. Plain white rice contains about 8% of calories as proteid."​

"[..]the most important part of his postgraduate education was his time with the Nobel laureate Otto Warburg. “Do you know any chemistry?” “No,” Kempner replied. “How about physics?” Another “No” followed. “We don’t have any room for you, but you can sit in the corner for a couple of weeks and watch if you wish,” Warburg replied. Off-and-on, Kempner spent 3 years with Warburg. Three scientists who worked in Warburg’s laboratory, including Sir Hans Krebs, went on to win the Nobel Prize. Here, Kempner enjoyed a superb education in metabolism."

"The rice diet did not cure everybody. In Kempner’s original cohort of 192 people, 25 patients died. Of the remaining 167, 60 patients did not substantially improve their blood pressure values. However, 107 patients showed significant improvement (from 200/112 mm Hg to 149/96 mm Hg) with the diet. Heart size decreased in 66 of 72 patients. Serum cholesterol was reduced in 73 of 82 patients. Retinopathy was reduced or disappeared completely in 21 of 33 patients. We must keep these results in context with the times, during which the life expectancy of anyone with malignant hypertension was 6 months. Sympathectomy seemed to improve that state of affairs, but not in all patients. Understandably, improved and healed patients became zealous supporters of Kempner and his cause."

"The rice diet was subsequently extended to patients with nephrotic syndrome, hypercholesterolemia, diabetes mellitus, atherosclerosis, and subsequently obesity.16 And it worked, not in all patients but in many, for whom no other therapeutic options were open. There were numerous successes and reports with the rice diet."

Did he say if the fruits also helped with digestion? I remember tyw saying proteins slowed down transit time for him, he also ate one massive meal a day and then way less, nothing past a certain early time. All of those things should limit fermentation potential (even without 3 BM a day) and give the digestive system a rest during the evening and night.
I don't know how healthy and sustainable that amount of proteins is, nor how going very low fat affects the gallbladder, and so I wonder if those patients can ever eat meat, fish , dairy and fat again ? How were vit a and d absorbed if the diet was fat-free?

 

[Amazoniac]

Did he say if the fruits also helped with digestion? I remember tyw saying proteins slowed down transit time for him, he also ate one massive meal a day and then way less, nothing past a certain early time. All of those things should limit fermentation potential (even without 3 BM a day) and give the digestive system a rest during the evening and night.
I don't know how healthy and sustainable that amount of proteins is, nor how going very low fat affects the gallbladder, and so I wonder if those patients can ever eat meat, fish , dairy and fat again ? How were vit a and d absorbed if the diet was fat-free?

Raj suggested somewhere carrots or ice cream at night. Easing it can be accomplished by avoiding things that ferment too much and not eating a lot or foods that can crash you later on.

That amount of proteid is very low, a bit higher makes it sustainble but I guess it doesn't mean that it's the best option.

Most of those vitamins are absorbed with very little to no fat: vitamins A, E, D, K. Especially as supplements.

For comparison, each Président butter chiplet has 10 g.
I'm actually not getting paid, it's just that adding such reference is engaging to The Reader.

When in doubt, have you ever searched for the term 'cholagogue foods/herbs/drugs/etc'? Turmeric and taurid are examples that you're familiar with.

That list above proceeds:
Treatment of Hypertensive Vascular Disease with Rice Diet

 

[Wagner83]

Thanks for the various suggestions. I find turmeric ok and well tolerated when most spices ain't but it tastes soapy, it doesn't help protect fibers from fermentation / producing gas in my case. I'll find other cholagogues to play with.