Does Processed Sugar Use Magnesium?

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Derek

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Parsifal said:
post 113585 Lots of different opinions, that's interesting.

About using bicarbonate to buffer CO2, I didn't really understood. I've also read that baking soda can cause stones and seems that some people here are getting kidney stones so I don't know...

Sugar raises CO2, CO2 is acidic in the blood, body dips into alkaline mineral stores to buffer C02 in the blood to achieve a neutral PH. I wasn't talking about taking bicarbonate.
 
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Derek

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Janelle525 said:
post 113590
Derek said:
post 113475 I eat a very high refined carb diet. So I agree with you on the health benefits of high carb. I just eat refined starches as opposed to refined sugars. I think they are more satiating, and minerals/vitamins are produced through their fermentation in the lower intestine; as opposed to white sugar.
What refined starches do you eat? How about potatoes? Do you eat any fruit at all? Milk?

White rice, White potatoes, White flour, Apple Juice, occasional banana, maybe like 1 or 2 glasses of milk occasionally but I normally eat cheese if I'm eating dairy; which isn't that frequently.
 
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Derek

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CoolTweetPete said:
post 113609
Daimyo said:
post 113603
Derek said:
post 113465 Taking sugar lowers cortisol, basically making you hypothyroid, and even more zinc deficient. So over time this can cause serious issues. I have seen this with fruitarians and high carb vegan/vegetarians. Now, you are probably much better off seeing as you eat meat routinely, I was just explaining the relationship between cortisol/sugar/thyroid/zinc.

Can you elaborate on that please?

Please, I also had trouble finding information about sugar wasting zinc while searching around the interwebz last night.

The pancreas has to produce insulin in order to handle sugar. The nutrients that are needed by the pancreas to produce insulin are zinc and manganese; so eating sugar will deplete you of these two minerals, as well as stress your pancreas. As I said, I saw the ramifications of this most in high carb vegans and fruitarians, who had little to no zinc intake. How much red meat do you have to eat to offset the effects of sugar I'm not sure, and if your stressing your pancreas with large amounts of refined sugar, it's going to impair your digestion of meat/zinc because the pancreas is vital to protein digestion.
 
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Derek

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Daimyo said:
post 113603
Derek said:
post 113465 Taking sugar lowers cortisol, basically making you hypothyroid, and even more zinc deficient. So over time this can cause serious issues. I have seen this with fruitarians and high carb vegan/vegetarians. Now, you are probably much better off seeing as you eat meat routinely, I was just explaining the relationship between cortisol/sugar/thyroid/zinc.

Can you elaborate on that please?

When you have high cortisol it's an adaptive/protective response by the body. It happens when you are zinc deficient/hypothyroid, cortisol temporarily can increase temps, pulse and metabolic rate; that's why high cortisol can make you warm/hot, have high heart rate, etc... So if high cortisol is adaptive to a zinc deficient/hypo metabolic state, taking sugar to lower it; without correcting the initial cause of the high cortisol, is going to cause issues long term. Sugar does lower cortisol, so does zinc. I'm just saying it's better to eat zinc and lower it, than to take a chemical which lowers it, but makes the initial cause (zinc deficiency) worse!
 
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YuraCZ

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Joined
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Derek said:
post 113642
Janelle525 said:
post 113590
Derek said:
post 113475 I eat a very high refined carb diet. So I agree with you on the health benefits of high carb. I just eat refined starches as opposed to refined sugars. I think they are more satiating, and minerals/vitamins are produced through their fermentation in the lower intestine; as opposed to white sugar.
What refined starches do you eat? How about potatoes? Do you eat any fruit at all? Milk?

White rice, White potatoes, White flour, Apple Juice, occasional banana, maybe like 1 or 2 glasses of milk occasionally but I normally eat cheese if I'm eating dairy; which isn't that frequently.
is refined starch? ;)
 
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CoolTweetPete

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Great posts, thank you Derek. :hattip
 
D

Derek

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YuraCZ said:
post 113650
Derek said:
post 113642
Janelle525 said:
post 113590
Derek said:
post 113475 I eat a very high refined carb diet. So I agree with you on the health benefits of high carb. I just eat refined starches as opposed to refined sugars. I think they are more satiating, and minerals/vitamins are produced through their fermentation in the lower intestine; as opposed to white sugar.
What refined starches do you eat? How about potatoes? Do you eat any fruit at all? Milk?

White rice, White potatoes, White flour, Apple Juice, occasional banana, maybe like 1 or 2 glasses of milk occasionally but I normally eat cheese if I'm eating dairy; which isn't that frequently.
is refined starch? ;)

She asked if I ate potatoes also, so I listed them.
 
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Giraffe

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Joined
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Derek said:
post 113644 The pancreas has to produce insulin in order to handle sugar. The nutrients that are needed by the pancreas to produce insulin are zinc and manganese; so eating sugar will deplete you of these two minerals, as well as stress your pancreas. As I said, I saw the ramifications of this most in high carb vegans and fruitarians, who had little to no zinc intake. How much red meat do you have to eat to offset the effects of sugar I'm not sure, and if your stressing your pancreas with large amounts of refined sugar, it's going to impair your digestion of meat/zinc because the pancreas is vital to protein digestion.
The diet of vegans is high in phytate (found in nuts, grains and legumes), which is a potent inhibitor of zinc absorption.

I agree that zinc is needed for insulin processing, but why do you think that zinc is lost? Do you have a reference?
 
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tara

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Derek said:
post 113644 The nutrients that are needed by the pancreas to produce insulin are zinc and manganese; so eating sugar will deplete you of these two minerals, as well as stress your pancreas.
I don't doubt that we need a steady supply of zinc (and manganese and various other nutrients) to sustain good carb handling. But sugar (eg sucrose or glucose + fructose mixes in fruit and honey), may require less insulin than a higher glucose ratio from starches. So if your concern is about insulin, then I imagine the refined starches would be at least as much of an issue.
 
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Giraffe

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Derek said:
post 113649
Daimyo said:
post 113603
Derek said:
post 113465 [highlight=yellow]Taking sugar lowers cortisol, basically making you hypothyroid, and even more zinc deficient.[/highlight] So over time this can cause serious issues. I have seen this with fruitarians and high carb vegan/vegetarians. Now, you are probably much better off seeing as you eat meat routinely, I was just explaining the relationship between cortisol/sugar/thyroid/zinc.

Can you elaborate on that please?

When you have high cortisol it's an adaptive/protective response by the body. It happens when you are zinc deficient/hypothyroid, cortisol temporarily can increase temps, pulse and metabolic rate; that's why high cortisol can make you warm/hot, have high heart rate, etc... So if high cortisol is adaptive to a zinc deficient/hypo metabolic state, taking sugar to lower it; without correcting the initial cause of the high cortisol, is going to cause issues long term. Sugar does lower cortisol, so does zinc. I'm just saying it's better to eat zinc and lower it, than to take a chemical which lowers it, but makes the initial cause (zinc deficiency) worse!
Cortisol functions to increase blood sugar through gluconeogenesis (= generation of glucose from non-carbohydrate carbon substrates). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortisol

So ingesting carbs looks like a promising way to prevent cortisol raising in the first place. Don't you think so? And since fructose inhibits the stimulation of insulin by glucose, fruits and table sugar are preferable over starch. (see Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context)
 
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Derek

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Giraffe said:
post 113764
Derek said:
post 113644 The pancreas has to produce insulin in order to handle sugar. The nutrients that are needed by the pancreas to produce insulin are zinc and manganese; so eating sugar will deplete you of these two minerals, as well as stress your pancreas. As I said, I saw the ramifications of this most in high carb vegans and fruitarians, who had little to no zinc intake. How much red meat do you have to eat to offset the effects of sugar I'm not sure, and if your stressing your pancreas with large amounts of refined sugar, it's going to impair your digestion of meat/zinc because the pancreas is vital to protein digestion.
The diet of vegans is high in phytate (found in nuts, grains and legumes), which is a potent inhibitor of zinc absorption.

I agree that zinc is needed for insulin processing, but why do you think that zinc is lost? Do you have a reference?

There is no usable zinc in a vegan diet. No phytates in a fruitarian diet. The issue is high sugar and no usable dietary zinc. I know zinc is lost looking at the blood work of these people. Also, looking at pancreatic function. Lowering fruit/simple sugar and increasing zinc solved these issues for these individuals.
 
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Giraffe

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Derek said:
post 113641
Parsifal said:
post 113585 Lots of different opinions, that's interesting.

About using bicarbonate to buffer CO2, I didn't really understood. I've also read that baking soda can cause stones and seems that some people here are getting kidney stones so I don't know...
Sugar raises CO[sub]2[/sub], CO2 is acidic in the blood, body dips into alkaline mineral stores to buffer C02 in the blood to achieve a neutral PH. I wasn't talking about taking bicarbonate.
@ Derek: What you are you talking about? Care to clarify?

@ Parsifal: The CO[sub]2[/sub] lowers blood pH (more acidic), which allows the hemoglobin to release its oxygen. When blood passes through the lungs the CO[sub]2[/sub] vaporizes and leaves the lungs forming bicarbonate through the following equation: CO[sub]2[/sub] + H[sub]2[/sub]O <==> H[sub]2[/sub]CO[sub]3[/sub] <==> H[sup]+[/sup] + HC3[sup]-[/sup]
Thus: decrease CO[sub]2[/sub] --> increase blood ph (more alkaline) --> hemoglobin takes up oxygen (see Wikipedia: Bohr effect). Lactic acid which also lowers blood pH does not vaporize.

Bicarbonate helps in many other ways, for example it:

- increases excretion of phosphate in the urine (see Phosphate, activation, and aging)
- protects against many of the toxic effects of ammonia. (see Meat physiology, stress, and degenerative physiology).

PTH besides activating glycolysis (= lactic acid is produced instead of CO[sub]2[/sub]) causes bicarbonate to be lost in the urine.
Calcium and Disease: Hypertension, organ calcification, & shock, vs. respiratory energy
 
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D

Derek

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tara said:
post 113769
Derek said:
post 113644 The nutrients that are needed by the pancreas to produce insulin are zinc and manganese; so eating sugar will deplete you of these two minerals, as well as stress your pancreas.
I don't doubt that we need a steady supply of zinc (and manganese and various other nutrients) to sustain good carb handling. But sugar (eg sucrose or glucose + fructose mixes in fruit and honey), may require less insulin than a higher glucose ratio from starches. So if your concern is about insulin, then I imagine the refined starches would be at least as much of an issue.

True, we do need a steady supply of zinc and manganese. When you consume OJ, milk and sugar; you get neither. You actually deplete yourself badly unless you're supplementing. You need insulin to process/handle carbs, it's a necessity. You don't need insulin to handle fructose but you do to handle glucose, so if fructose blunts the insulin response; wouldn't it be harder to tolerate the glucose in white sugar?

On paper the starches look worse that's true. However, in practice this isn't the case. I think it's sugar/fruit juices rapid absorption causing a stress response that makes them worse than complex carbs like starch. Also, you get more nutrients from starches; like manganese for instance. White rice and white flour are very high. So white starch and beef give you the right proportion of nutrients IMO.
 
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D

Derek

Guest
Giraffe said:
post 113771
Derek said:
post 113649
Daimyo said:
post 113603
Derek said:
post 113465 [highlight=yellow]Taking sugar lowers cortisol, basically making you hypothyroid, and even more zinc deficient.[/highlight] So over time this can cause serious issues. I have seen this with fruitarians and high carb vegan/vegetarians. Now, you are probably much better off seeing as you eat meat routinely, I was just explaining the relationship between cortisol/sugar/thyroid/zinc.

Can you elaborate on that please?

When you have high cortisol it's an adaptive/protective response by the body. It happens when you are zinc deficient/hypothyroid, cortisol temporarily can increase temps, pulse and metabolic rate; that's why high cortisol can make you warm/hot, have high heart rate, etc... So if high cortisol is adaptive to a zinc deficient/hypo metabolic state, taking sugar to lower it; without correcting the initial cause of the high cortisol, is going to cause issues long term. Sugar does lower cortisol, so does zinc. I'm just saying it's better to eat zinc and lower it, than to take a chemical which lowers it, but makes the initial cause (zinc deficiency) worse!
Cortisol functions to increase blood sugar through gluconeogenesis (= generation of glucose from non-carbohydrate carbon substrates). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortisol

So ingesting carbs looks like a promising way to prevent cortisol raising in the first place. Don't you think so? And since fructose inhibits the stimulation of insulin by glucose, fruits and table sugar are preferable over starch. (see Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context)

I already said I agree sugar lowers cortisol. But it doesn't address the reason you had high cortisol in the first place. No I don't think fruit/sugar are better than starch because you need insulin to tolerate/handle carbohydrate. So something that lowers insulin is going to make it harder to tolerate the carbs. That's why most people I know tolerate starch better than sugar, more insulin to process it. I have applied this to real people in the real world.
 
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Derek, are you a Practitioner/ doctor? You seem to have a lot of real world experience with this stuff working with people?
 
D

Derek

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extremecheddar said:
post 113780 Derek, are you a Practitioner/ doctor? You seem to have a lot of real world experience with this stuff working with people?

No, but I do have a lot of experience. I've probably read more books/researched more than most doctors have. And I was able to get myself better. If I couldn't of helped myself, I wouldn't have been helping others.
 
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Derek

Guest
extremecheddar said:
post 113782 so more of a health coach of sorts?

I wouldn't say coach since I don't make any money. I have a job, I just help friends/family/acquaintances when I have the time.
 
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artist

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I find I have to supplement a lot of magnesium to tolerate starch , like 1000mg a day whcih is tough to achieve although I benefit greatly from supplementation whether I eat starch or not, it seems to be the difference between function and misery when starch is in the mix. Zinc and manganese do seem to be lacking for me when I don't eat meat but I like supplementing zinc a lot. Is it really thst bad to do so?
 

BingDing

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Derek said:
post 113356 White sugar causes you to waste most vitamins and minerals; mainly B-Vitamins, Potassium, Magnesium, Zinc and manganese. Sugar raises CO2 in the blood, you need bicarbonates to buffer it; so your body dips into your alkaline mineral stores. You eat sugar it increases the pancreas's production of insulin, which is dependent on zinc and manganese; so you can see how sugar depletes you of minerals. BTW, it has nothing to do with an increased metabolic rate. Sugar just puts a strain on your body causing you to waste minerals/vitamins in order to process it. You mentioned sugared milk, lets look at the pancreas. Calcium depletes you of zinc. Sugar depletes you of manganese and zinc. Pancreas needs zinc/manganese to produce insulin. You can see how sugared milk is death to the pancreas.

Also, if sugar wastes magnesium, one could should wonder if it's really pro-thyroid as everyone says. Ray says thyroid/good metabolic rate allow the body to retain magnesium, hypothyroidism causes people to waste magnesium; so what does that make you think of white sugar?

I have a hard time understanding your perspective, Derek. Do you have any references for another "sugar is bad" post?

Sucrose is sucrose, whether it is in a five pound bag or a ripe fruit. Glucose + O2 -> CO2 + ATP is what makes multi-cellular life possible, that is considered a good thing. Buffering blood ph is also perfectly normal, and on an RP type program so is getting adequate vitamins, minerals, and amino acids to produce all the co-factors, hormones, neurotransmitters, immune factors, etc for healthy homeostasis.

There are numerous RP quotes about sugar being beneficial, you can find them if you try. I only post this because I worry about new people buying into such a simplistic and erroneous perspective.
 
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