Relearning How To Breathe And Increasing CO2

[tara]

Nice quotes you found.

As far as I know I've not had any goiter or diagnosis of thyroid issues, so my experience differs from yours.

I could try some herbs such as vitex or wild yam.

I would not recommend wild yam. The diosgenin in it can be converted by lab technologies to progesterone and other steroids, but the body cannot make these changes, and the unmodified diosgenin is likely more burden than support.

I don't mean to derail this CO2 thread into all my hormone and thyroid issues.

I'm sure it's all connected - I think the links between these are interesting too. :)

 

[Heidi]

Thanks Tara for your continued support and the tip about wild yam.

I'm still wanting to understand more about the relationship of hormones and CO2. I can't seem to let it go. Here are some more articles and a few quotes for anyone interested. They were interesting to me. I will reread them and try to understand this better.

From: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC464700/pdf/thorax00287-0007.pdf

Progestational hormones

The association between high levels of endogenous progesterone in pregnancy and the latter half of the menstrual cycle and increasing ventilation has long been recognized. The oral synthetic derivative medroxyprogesterone acetate has similarly been shown to stimulate breathing in normal individuals'0 and in patients with respiratory disorders. It is probable that progesterone has a central action, crossing the blood-brain barrier to stimulate brain stem respiratory centres to increase alveolar ventilation," an effect that persists during sleep.'2 13 Medroxyprogesterone increases minute ventilation and the ventilatory responses to both hypoxia and hypercapnia.'0 It has been used to treat patients with primary alveolar hypoventilation and those with the obstructive sleep apnoea syndrome, although results are disappointing.'4

In 17 patients with COPD with stable chronic ventilatory failure (mean FEV1 1 2 1, Pao2 6-6 kPa, Paco2 6X9 kPa) 20 mg medroxyprogesterone acetate three times a day for four weeks caused a significant reduction in mean Paco, of 1 kPa and a rise in Pao2 of 07 kPa in 10 of the 17 patients.'5 This was associated with an increase in mouth occlusion pressure, tidal volume, and alveolar ventilation. Those patients who responded could be predicted by their ability to lower arterial carbon dioxide voluntarily while awake. These findings were confirmed by Delaunois et al who found that 75 mg daily of medroxyprogesterone acetate for seven days increased Pao2 and decreased Paco, by about 1I0 kPa in nine of 15 stable hypercapnic patients with COPD.'6 In a similar study 60 mg daily of medroxyprogesterone for one month had no effect on nocturnal oxygen desaturation in 19 patients with COPD despite a mean improvement in daytime Pao2 and a fall in Paco2 of 0 9 kPa."3 Although in a further study Skatrud and colleagues reported less carbon dioxide retention and raised arterial Pao2 in five patients with COPD after four weeks of medroxyprogesterone, the reduction in Paco2 persisted during sleep.'2 Medroxyprogesterone has no effect on sleep architecture but in one study the number of arousals increased.' Side effects with medroxyprogesterone are troublesome and include weight gain, gastrointestinal disturbance, anxiety, and there is a theoretical risk of thromboembolic events and exacerbation of hypertension and heart failure. About 10% of male patients experience loss of libido and impotence.

From: Progesterone

Progesterone has a very interesting direct action on the mother's respiratory center (medulla oblongata).

• It increases sensitivity to carbon dioxide. To say it another way: The respiratory center can't tolerate the usual amount of carbon dioxide in the blood. This accounts for the feeling of shortness of breath, dyspnea, or heightened awareness of the need to breathe reported by many pregnant women. The pregnant woman is actually forced to hyperventilate, and "blow off" more carbon dioxide than she normally would. As a result, the removal of carbon dioxide from the fetus's bloodstream is facilitated!
• In other words: In a blood gas analysis, the normal nonpregnant woman would be expected to have a pCO2 of 35-45 mmHg.
• The normal pregnant woman would be expected to have a pCO2 of 27-32 mmHg.

6.2 Respiratory Alkalosis - Causes
http://dm5migu4zj3pb.cloudfront.net/manuscripts/109000/109732/JCI80109732.pdf
http://razi.ams.ac.ir/AIM/0581/008.pdf
http://ocw.tufts.edu/data/33/508776.pdf
Medscape: Medscape Access

 

[Heidi]

I've still been feeling stressed. I think the reason why is that I've lost all my defenses to stress. I'm now more sensitive to the stress that I've been feeling all along, but previously was able to push through or defend against it. I'm no longer intentionally hyperventilating as a coping mechanism. My chronic tension holding patterns have dropped away. I'm much more physically relaxed than I used to be. But I'm also more aware, sensitive, and feeling things more. There are a lot of perpetual stressors in my life right now, and I feel a sense of saturation with it all. Like I don't quite have the resilience that I use to have - the stress gets to me really fast.

My sleep has been much deeper than it use to be. (The other night I slept through a neighbor's fire alarm going off at 3 AM.) But I also have nights of waking up and not being able to get back to sleep. I use to be fine with occasional nights of less sleep, but now it just amplifies the stress that I'm already feeling.

I think I'm more sensitive to the hormonal and thyroid stress that I've had all along. It's like my body now knows about and is craving a better balance. But I'm not quite there yet and old issues are feeling less tolerable than they use to.

However, I feel like underneath all the stress, I'm actually doing well. I feel like my overall vitality has increased and during shorts spurts of exercise I feel especially good.

Although anxiety is certainly a component of stress, I feel like stress is my primary issue, not anxiety. The stress makes sense to me given all the changes from reducing my breathing, juxtaposed with my present life circumstances. It would be much easier to reduce breathing, while being on some long extended vacation in some warm tropical place! So I'm just trying to do as many nurturing things as I can given my circumstances. I'm trying to err on the side of not pushing things and doing too much.

I had a bit of PTSD after taking care of my mother a number of years ago when she was really sick. My nerves were completely shot afterwards and it took awhile for everything to settle. I would startle awake in the night, thinking my mother was still screaming out in pain. Where I'm at right now feels similar in that I've reached some kind of physical saturation with all the stress that I've been dealing with, and it is taking time to settle and regroup.

In terms of breathing, I think that I'm feeling more comfortable with the sensations of reduced breathing and mild air hunger. It's become more pleasurable in some way. I'm still working a lot with the tongue position between my teeth and keeping my lower abdomen relaxed.

I've noticed that paying attention to and feeling my heartbeat in my body reduces breathing. I think that's because in order to feel my heartbeat well, I have to quiet and reduce my breathing, otherwise breathing overshadows it. When I focus on feeling my heartbeat, my resting pulse decreases a good amount from maybe about 62 to 56. I'm not sure if that's good or not, as I think that my pulse is already low. So far it's the only thing that I've found that decreases my pulse.

I've also noticed that expanding my awareness by expanding my field of vision, listening to all the sounds in my environment, or feeling a sense of the whole of my body or sensations will also reduce my breathing. It's been nice to be finding a variety of tools to reduce breathing, some of which feel quite pleasurable. I'm not sure what is best, so I've just been freely experimenting with a mix of combinations, especially when lying in bed with a mask on.

 

[Blossom]

I've still been feeling stressed. I think the reason why is that I've lost all my defenses to stress. I'm now more sensitive to the stress that I've been feeling all along, but previously was able to push through or defend against it. I'm no longer intentionally hyperventilating as a coping mechanism. My chronic tension holding patterns have dropped away. I'm much more physically relaxed than I used to be. But I'm also more aware, sensitive, and feeling things more. There are a lot of perpetual stressors in my life right now, and I feel a sense of saturation with it all. Like I don't quite have the resilience that I use to have - the stress gets to me really fast.

My sleep has been much deeper than it use to be. (The other night I slept through a neighbor's fire alarm going off at 3 AM.) But I also have nights of waking up and not being able to get back to sleep. I use to be fine with occasional nights of less sleep, but now it just amplifies the stress that I'm already feeling.

I think I'm more sensitive to the hormonal and thyroid stress that I've had all along. It's like my body now knows about and is craving a better balance. But I'm not quite there yet and old issues are feeling less tolerable than they use to.

However, I feel like underneath all the stress, I'm actually doing well. I feel like my overall vitality has increased and during shorts spurts of exercise I feel especially good.

Although anxiety is certainly a component of stress, I feel like stress is my primary issue, not anxiety. The stress makes sense to me given all the changes from reducing my breathing, juxtaposed with my present life circumstances. It would be much easier to reduce breathing, while being on some long extended vacation in some warm tropical place! So I'm just trying to do as many nurturing things as I can given my circumstances. I'm trying to err on the side of not pushing things and doing too much.

I had a bit of PTSD after taking care of my mother a number of years ago when she was really sick. My nerves were completely shot afterwards and it took awhile for everything to settle. I would startle awake in the night, thinking my mother was still screaming out in pain. Where I'm at right now feels similar in that I've reached some kind of physical saturation with all th

I could have written all of that myself. I wonder how many of us here have a similar experience even though we don't talk about it much. When you get a taste of feeling better it brings a stark contrast to the times you don't and you realize how long you actually suffered and struggled. For me it seemed like there were some wilder fluctuations early on because it was like I was learning how to live with a better metabolism and my body was trying to reach a new balance if that makes sense. Sounds like you are making good progress Heidi.

 

[Heidi]

Thanks Blossom for your response. I've been stretching myself to share these details because I suspect that someone trying to make similar changes is likely to experience these kinds of things, too.

When you get a taste of feeling better it brings a stark contrast to the times you don't and you realize how long you actually suffered and struggled.

This is so true. It's amazing how fast you can forget a particular suffering. My bladder went off a tiny bit the other day for the first time since I changed my breathing. It was just a brief little thing but I got really upset by it. I was viscerally reminded for just a short while, of how much suffering I endured for so long. Going back to it even briefly was so distasteful. But it was also a good reminder to stay grateful for how much better I feel.

For me it seemed like there were some wilder fluctuations early on because it was like I was learning how to live with a better metabolism and my body was trying to reach a new balance if that makes sense.

Yes, my body is stretching towards a new balance, but isn't fully there yet. But I sense the potential. Very interesting juxtaposition of contrasting states of stress and wellbeing.

 

[onioneyedox]

I spent years controlling my breathing through Transformational Breathwork, which completely changed how I breathed on a daily basis. My breathing got better in some ways and became more of a problem in other ways. I think the whole point of Buteyko breathing is to completely transform the way one breathes. I'm hoping to successfully retrain my breathing so that my body relearns to reduce breathing all the time. I think each person needs to find what works for them. For some people just doing the exercises at a separate dedicated time might be the right approach. Your suggestions for just keeping the mind still works perfectly for my husband. Relaxation, mind stillness, reduced breathing, and increased CO2 are all linked up for him. All he has to do is relax and his mind stills, and CO2 increases. I wish that all those pieces linked up that easily for me. I've had very detailed conversations with him, so I've been able to see how things are linked differently for me.

However, I do think that I've been controlling my breathing too much as I explained in the post above. I don't monitor my blood pressure because it's always been good. Once, a very long time ago, I had a problem with it being too low. If it would be helpful for some reason to track blood pressure, I would start doing that.

Sorry I didn't respond to you, had bit of a break from the forum. Just thought about increased blood pressure as I had that problem myself at the time and saw you talking about anxiety etc. Also pressure behind eyes (I think you that mentioned later in thread) can be a symptom. But yes, monitoring blood pressure if it has been good, isn't something one needs to do often (I guess once a year, or so, is a good practise).

 

[Heidi]

Sorry I didn't respond to you, had bit of a break from the forum. Just thought about increased blood pressure as I had that problem myself at the time and saw you talking about anxiety etc. Also pressure behind eyes (I think you that mentioned later in thread) can be a symptom. But yes, monitoring blood pressure if it has been good, isn't something one needs to do often (I guess once a year, or so, is a good practise).

Thanks onioneyedox for your belated response. That was kind of you to remember to respond even though it had been awhile.

At first it's tricky to know what things to track. I tracked my temperature for a bunch of days because I was worried that my temperature was too low and that maybe I needed to do a temperature reset, as talked about in this thread here: Steve Richfield - Fixlowbodytemp.com I came to the conclusion that my temps were good enough, and not something to focus on for right now.

 

[Luann]

A Ray Peat quote

"An adequate supply of calcium, and sometimes supplementation of salt and baking soda, can increase the tissue content of CO2." Protective CO2 and aging

May be helpful

 

[lindsay]

I found adding yoga into my routine really helped all around because you learn proper breathing techniques and it's very stress-relieving. Now I only do about 15 - 30 minutes a day, but that's enough to feel lasting benefits.

 

[Heidi]

So the mammatrophic breathing/tongue position ended up being a key thing for me. At night I stopped taping my mouth because I couldn't get a good tongue position with a tightly closed mouth. I ended up biting my tongue in my sleep. I now sleep with two light weight masks. I pay attention to tongue position by elevating my tongue before I fall asleep and each time that I wake up during the night. (I tried putting a pacifier nipple under my tongue, but that didn't work out.) For the most part, my breathing seems to be staying more settled during the night. If my breathing is not settled, I usually am able to settle it quickly.

During the day my body is staying unbelievably relaxed. Chronic tension and holding patterns are completely gone. I think that most of the time I'm now breathing from my lower abdomen. I'm breathing much lower in my abdomen that I use to, which is a key thing for me in terms of breathing form. The tongue position helped me to learn this initially, but now I think that my body has incorporated the habit and I breathe lightly from lower down in my abdomen regardless of my tongue position. I'll have to keep paying attention to this for longer to be sure. So to recap, tongue position at night seems to be key, but during the day as long as my breathing form is good, the tongue position is redundant and not necessary.

So the good news is that I'm sustaining better breathing most of the time. My CP has gone back up, not as high as it had gotten, but much better than it had been. And my oximeter baseline has mostly been at 97% instead of 98%. And my resting pulse has gone up a bit, which was surprising, as for most people it typically goes down when CP improves. But my resting pulse is low, so I'll take that as good news.

I've made even more of an effort to tune into my body and what feels good. Exercise has been good. Sun is good. Barefoot is good. Luckily weather allowed more of those things this past week. I've been trying to eat carrots by themselves and am not sure yet if it's helping me. I drank lots of carbonated water and then stopped craving it and stopped drinking it as much. I've been supplementing with small amounts of aspirin, magnesium, and vitex. I muscle test myself to see if my body wants a supplement. My husband pokes fun of me for doing this, but it seems to work.

The bad news is that the stress that I'd been feeling, I am now experiencing as exhaustion. It probably was exhaustion all along, but I didn't fully recognize it as such, and so it felt more like stress. I am sleeping deeper and longer than I ever remember sleeping. I need at least 9 hours of deep sleep to function and 10.5 is even better.

I have an increased appetite and have been eating more and gaining weight, as an attempt to cope with the lack of energy. I'm not happy with the weight gain. About 6 years ago, I worked really hard to lose 30 pounds and get to a weight that felt really good for me. I don't want to lose the suppleness of movement that I feel with weighing less.

Also, with my abdomen more relaxed, I've been experiencing more uncomfortable abdominal sensation. I've had some intestinal cramping, which might be from the carrot? Also, I've been aware of mild bladder discomfort. It might be that nothing has changed, and that I'm just feeling more sensation because of the release of the chronic holding of tension. The bladder discomfort and cramping might be hormonally related.

On some level the improvement and exhaustion all makes sense to me. Hyperventilation revs everything and gave me energy in some way. But there's no way that I can go back to that. The physical relaxation is too good. My approach is to try and sleep as much as I can. Hopefully my body will eventually catch up on the sleep that it needs. I'm also trying to reset my expectations. I know that the changes that I've made thus far have all been really good. So there is then this expectation that I feel great. But obviously my body is needing time and sleep to adjust to the changes. I'm trying to trust and be patient and accepting. (But I want more energy!)

 

[Rafe]

I could have written all of that myself.

My longest winter has been this one when I had really drawn down my adrenaline. I can't convey how important it is to consider getting a change to a better environment to do this seriously. I didn't do that.

At the outset I wasn't prepared to make the decisions that only an un-stressed view would make possible. It demonstrated how really damaging and threatening my environment is, and to evaluating it in a very concrete way. Changing little things had to do. I exhausted, got a little disturbed by new anxiety at times, and got illnesses going around, and I used supplements to bridge the gap more than I could recommend to anyone else.
I realized it was risky to try to prop up a metabolism with too many/much supplements that wasn't robust yet b/c that was just inviting a crash on top of burnout. I was lucky to have stayed on the good side of that. I think keeping an art-type notebook in addition to a tracking log [pulse, BP, temps, breathing] about the changes is helpful to building self-direction under those circumstances. I still made good progress. I had good breathing already, but I used breathing advice [keep my mouth shut] from the good people here so many times. It made everything better.

 

[Heidi]

A Ray Peat quote

"An adequate supply of calcium, and sometimes supplementation of salt and baking soda, can increase the tissue content of CO2." Protective CO2 and aging

May be helpful

Thanks Liubo. I haven't been sure about supplementing calcium. I have been eating more salt, but so far that seems to increase bloating and water retention for me. Maybe I need even more salt, but I haven't been brave enough to try high quantities yet. I've supplemented with baking soda in the past, but I don't like the taste of it. I've kept it in the back of my mind as something to maybe try again at some point.

 

[Heidi]

I found adding yoga into my routine really helped all around because you learn proper breathing techniques and it's very stress-relieving. Now I only do about 15 - 30 minutes a day, but that's enough to feel lasting benefits.

I use to do yoga and really miss how flexible my body would feel when I did it regularly. For some reason it didn't help me with my breathing. I think I would breathe slow and deep when I did yoga, but it was still a hyperventilating state for me. As I said before, relaxation had been coupled with slow and deep breathing for me, and I never truly relaxed physically. Physical relaxation was impossible to sustain because I was always breathing too much, even though it felt like I never got enough oxygen. I was always thinking that more oxygen was better. Now I'm perpetually thinking about less and lighter breathing, but with improved breathing form. I like the metaphor of less being more and seeing how much more I can let go of. But in terms of the yoga, for someone else it might really help their breathing.

 

[Heidi]

My longest winter has been this one when I had really drawn down my adrenaline. I can't convey how important it is to consider getting a change to a better environment to do this seriously. I didn't do that.

At the outset I wasn't prepared to make the decisions that only an un-stressed view would make possible. It demonstrated how really damaging and threatening my environment is, and to evaluating it in a very concrete way. Changing little things had to do. I exhausted, got a little disturbed by new anxiety at times, and got illnesses going around, and I used supplements to bridge the gap more than I could recommend to anyone else.
I realized it was risky to try to prop up a metabolism with too many/much supplements that wasn't robust yet b/c that was just inviting a crash on top of burnout. I was lucky to have stayed on the good side of that. I think keeping an art-type notebook in addition to a tracking log [pulse, BP, temps, breathing] about the changes is helpful to building self-direction under those circumstances. I still made good progress. I had good breathing already, but I used breathing advice [keep my mouth shut] from the good people here so many times. It made everything better.

I could relate to what you wrote. I have always struggled with winter, and now I too have a deeper appreciation of why. I love where I live but only for half of the year. Next winter I will add in red light and other things to cope better. If I had better finances, I would go to a tropical climate for the winter.

I wasn't sure if you were referring to this past winter or something you went through years back. Hope things are good for you now. Your art type notebook is a good idea, it's easy to forget to track creativity and more right brain kinds of things. Unfortunately, I tend not to follow through with that kind of thing, especially when I'm too tired or stressed to keep up with it all.

 

[Heidi]

So I slept really well for a lot of nights in a row. Felt really good all weekend. Had good energy for a few days. Was easily able to get caught up with things that I'd been putting off. I'd been maintaining a baseline of 97% on the oximeter for awhile now. I went to sleep last night feeling really good. Slept well again, but I noticed during the night that my breathing wasn't as settled as it had been. I'm guessing that I was at 98% during my sleep instead of 97%. And now today I feel exceptionally stressed and I have no idea why! Breathing is back up to 99%, but if I'm mindful I can settle it to 98%. I'm not working today, so it's not because of that. Hormones? I'm on day 19 of my cycle. I'd been happy because normally I feel worse post ovulation and up until today I'd been feeling good.

Even though I've spent my entire life hyperventilating as my normal state, it's now become intolerable. After feeling really good for a few days, it's painful to fall back into hyperventilation mode. I've become very sensitive to where my breathing is at. I usually just know what my SpO2 is. I have no idea why I feel anxious today. It's especially puzzling because I felt so happy to effortlessly catch up on so many little things. Emotionally, I felt a lot less stressed. So it's especially weird to have my body in a stress mode. Open to ideas or suggestions on what might be going on and what might help. But I do think that the main thing is that I need to be patient with these kinds of fluctuations. Blossom, the words you last wrote keep going through my head:

I could have written all of that myself. I wonder how many of us here have a similar experience even though we don't talk about it much. When you get a taste of feeling better it brings a stark contrast to the times you don't and you realize how long you actually suffered and struggled. For me it seemed like there were some wilder fluctuations early on because it was like I was learning how to live with a better metabolism and my body was trying to reach a new balance if that makes sense. Sounds like you are making good progress Heidi.

It's nice to have a place to post my experiences, where people have an understanding of the craziness of these kinds of swings. Thanks for reading.

 

[Blossom]

I hope you don't find this information unwelcome @Heidi but something as out of our control as barometric pressure changes can cause a fluctuation in the spo2 reading by a point or two. This link mentions the phenomenon,
Daily changes in oxygen saturation and pulse rate associated with particulate air pollution and barometric pressure. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Heidi]

I hope you don't find this information unwelcome @Heidi but something as out of our control as barometric pressure changes can cause a fluctuation in the spo2 reading by a point or two. This link mentions the phenomenon,
Daily changes in oxygen saturation and pulse rate associated with particulate air pollution and barometric pressure. - PubMed - NCBI

Thanks Blossom, that info/ link is very interesting and relevant. I use to get sinus headaches with drops in barometric pressure. I think I am sensitive in other ways to barometric pressure changes, but have forgotten that. My last post when my breathing got worse, there was a huge shift in weather that day. We got a good snow storm after many weeks of mild spring weather. (All the flowers got buried!) It's very likely that my SpO2 increased due to the barometric pressure.

I hope that I can emanate an overall impression that I welcome all info. I am a beginner and just learning. I'm sure that I have a bunch of things wrong and am misguided with a lot of things. I have been grateful for all that I have been learning here. I have especially valued feedback from you and Tara and Sheila and others who have a lot more knowledge than I do. I am always especially happy when I see that you have responded to something I wrote. Thank you.

I read a post by Tarmander here Stopping Estrogen: Mission Impossible and it was very good advice for me and anyone trying to change their breathing.

I know exactly what you are talking about OP. I have used DHEA, Pregnenolone, Thyroid, and then all the non hormonal supplements meant to lower estrogen. Like many other people, I feel good on them, especially initially, but over time would experience more bloating, gyno, and other things I associate with estrogen. Recently I have been using vitamin K topically (haidut's) to really good effect, and I feel it's combination with caffeine is stronger then any other anti estrogen therapy I have tried.

I have a couple theories that have helped me that I will share. First off, I have found that if you push your metabolism AT all to a place that is higher then you can handle, you will get estrogen symptoms. A lot of new peat people come on here and throw every metabolism boosting supplement they can at themselves and wonder why it isn't working. Raising metabolism is like a stair stepping process. As you slowly raise it, you need to focus quite a bit on lowering stress, keeping your activities levels constant, and in generally being hyper vigalent on how you are feeling. If you don't, and you push it, because it is so goooood for you just ask Peat and everyone else...well you're going to have a bad time. I would guess that most people having these estrogen symptoms have pushed their metabolism too far, even just locally in some part of their body.

Also, I have discovered for myself that keeping a clean liver and estrogen symptoms down is like a marathon. A lot of people talk about cleaning out the liver like it is a one time deal. Nope, it is a constant thing you do every day, and if you work too hard, get too stressed, don't get sunlight, etc, you back pedal. Cleaning out your liver is stressful...I can't emphasize that enough. It leads to better energy, but it can so easily add to your stress, and your fatigue.

Lastly, and this is just a guess, I think most people who come to peat and start eating more sugar cause themselves cellular dehydration. It is tough to see because you are drinking all this orange juice, but the edema and bloating, I believe, is a sign of dehydration at the cellular level. I have resolved a lot of bloating by adding a lot more salt to OJ and just the foods I eat in general. Especially if you lay out in the sun for a couple hours a day, you need a good dose of salt or you can easily start this cycle where you are unstressed and bloating goes away from the sun, and then your bloat right back up from lack of hydration.

Hope some of this is useful.

Also, this post from docall18 and haidut's response after it, were along the same line of thinking and helpful, too. Pregnenolone (should) Lower Estrogen Levels

I am very sensitive to the effects of increased CO2 and anything thing else that raises my metabolism. I can only tolerate a bit at a time. I'm sensitive to and can only handle small amounts of caffeine, sugar, aspirin, progesterone and other metabolism raising things. I've been slow to catch on to the metabolism raising effects of changing my breathing. I really didn't get this connection at all to begin with. I started reducing my breathing in the middle of winter. It will be so much easier to reduce breathing and stress in the warm sunny weather.

 

[tomisonbottom]

The Frolov and the Breathslim device are for very sick people. Once you get a little better, you'll find that they don't have much value unless you use them for a really long time. What's better I found, is put in the device into a big water pitcher, and covering it with a towel, so that you can breathe through the mouthpiece. The CO2 builds up in the picture and really contributes a lot to the effectiveness of the training. You sometimes have to remove the towel or slightly uncover it, because you get too much carbon dioxide buildup in the pitcher. But doing this really makes the exercise much more effective.

Can you give me some pointers on this? I just got the breathslim. Do you do what it recommends, i.e. 5 second breath in, hold for 5, 5 seconds breath out, or do you do the butekyo method, holding after exhaling?
You said you have a high CP, so was curious how you went about increasing it so much.
I'd like to get it up, but trying to figure out how often I need to practice, and what determines it being stressful to a point where I should stop..

 

[Heidi]

Can you give me some pointers on this? I just got the breathslim. Do you do what it recommends, i.e. 5 second breath in, hold for 5, 5 seconds breath out, or do you do the butekyo method, holding after exhaling?
You said you have a high CP, so was curious how you went about increasing it so much.
I'd like to get it up, but trying to figure out how often I need to practice, and what determines it being stressful to a point where I should stop..

Hopefully ecstatichamster will respond and give his input. But here is a link to the Frolov manual that has a lot of helpful info on using the breathslim. http://www.aviva.ca/files/pdfs/frolov-manual.pdf

My understanding is that you want to go for a short inhale and a long exhale. I didn't think that a breath hold was necessary. When I started using the device in a larger container as ecstatichamster recommended, I put the water in the bottom of the larger container and didn't use the cup that the device came with. This worked well as I could gradually add slightly more water and up the resistance. But I realized later that I had misinterpreted his advice. But I think that it might be a useful thing to play with, for anyone wanting to make the device a bit more challenging.

I've found it difficult to determine the right amount to use the device, as I only felt the stress effects of doing too much sometime later. Good luck in raising your CP. I hope it goes well for you.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Hopefully ecstatichamster will respond and give his input. But here is a link to the Frolov manual that has a lot of helpful info on using the breathslim. http://www.aviva.ca/files/pdfs/frolov-manual.pdf

My understanding is that you want to go for a short inhale and a long exhale. I didn't think that a breath hold was necessary. When I started using the device in a larger container as ecstatichamster recommended, I put the water in the bottom of the larger container and didn't use the cup that the device came with. This worked well as I could gradually add slightly more water and up the resistance. But I realized later that I had misinterpreted his advice. But I think that it might be a useful thing to play with, for anyone wanting to make the device a bit more challenging.

I've found it difficult to determine the right amount to use the device, as I only felt the stress effects of doing too much sometime later. Good luck in raising your CP. I hope it goes well for you.

It depends on where you are starting from. The device is made for people who are very sick. You had misinterpreted my advice, just put the device as-is in a larger container and cover loosely with a kitchen towel, and the mouthpiece sticking out. Now you are NOT increasing the water-created resistance, but you ARE increasing the CO2 you are building up in the reservoir with each exhale, and that makes it much more productive WHEN YOU ARE READY for this.

I would say around CP25.

BTW, as far as CP, you should do everything you can to get your CP to 25. I have found most people will stop there, and they get a lot of benefit (which continues for the forseeable future even if you stop the exercises.) But if you go further, you will need techniques like this one, and the next stop is CP33 or so. Few get byond that, sometimes to CP40. My CP is 40 or 45 part of the year, dropping back in winter to 38 or 40.

Getting to 60 takes another dose of commitment which I've never been up for. Maybe there will be other avenues to get there.