Utility of CP in Buteyko breathing

yerrag

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I am glad to hear that you have made good progress with your blood pressure. It seems like dedication and persistence gradually pay off, though it may take so much longer and be way more complicated than we initially thought. Hope that you have full success with it soon.

It has taken me such a long time to even be able to identify some major underlying health problems. And then even longer to figure out what works. I have had a major parasite problem that did not show up on multiple lab tests at different labs, even when I sent very obvious visual evidence. The medical system in the US is really messed up and hard to get prescriptions for what one needs. I have made long slow process in healing this, but am still in the thick of it. Hopefully healing it more fully will make a big difference with breathing and CO2 retention.

So has your control pause increased a lot due to fixing your sugar metabolism and acid-base balance? Do you have a reasonably good control pause now?
I haven't tested my CP for a long time. I tested it just now and I got 40 seconds without forcing it, meaning I didn't have to exhale and inhale abnormally after testing. Surprised I was able to go this high. As 25 would be an honest CP value the last time I did it.

You are right to connect CP to health, as I believe it's a good gauge as it is connected to good sugar metabolism, and there to metabolic health, with it being the lynch pin of overall health as we are energy beings, and overall health is dependent on our ability to produce energy, with surplus being used to develop ourselves.

As you resolve each issue you have, you're removing an energy sink. With each sink removed, your energy will go in the direction of surplus.

Aside from CP, I find the 5hr Oral glucose tolerance test to be another good gauge. They are DIY as well.
 

Heidi

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I haven't tested my CP for a long time. I tested it just now and I got 40 seconds without forcing it, meaning I didn't have to exhale and inhale abnormally after testing. Surprised I was able to go this high. As 25 would be an honest CP value the last time I did it.

You are right to connect CP to health, as I believe it's a good gauge as it is connected to good sugar metabolism, and there to metabolic health, with it being the lynch pin of overall health as we are energy beings, and overall health is dependent on our ability to produce energy, with surplus being used to develop ourselves.

As you resolve each issue you have, you're removing an energy sink. With each sink removed, your energy will go in the direction of surplus.

Aside from CP, I find the 5hr Oral glucose tolerance test to be another good gauge. They are DIY as well.
Thank you. It is reassuring to know that the CP can increase without laboriously working on improving one's breathing. That is great that yours is so much higher now.
 

yerrag

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Thank you. It is reassuring to know that the CP can increase without laboriously working on improving one's breathing. That is great that yours is so much higher now.
I'm glad for that. As I get to understand how our body works, and as I experience better health with simple approaches, and as I tie it to my understanding of how sugar metabolism being optimal is joined to the hips with our health, I find that sweating the small stuff is less and less important.

Eat well with no deficiency, work at optimal blood sugar regulation, and as you arrive there, your body will be excellent at adapting to whatever is sub-optimal in you. And as you work on what is sub-optimal, your body will support you in your quest. It will not fail you on that. That's how my body has been able to carry my load as I go through years of high blood pressure, not taking any medication, as I try to find the cause of it. Now that I'm at least halfway through, I can confidently see the light at the end of the tunnel, I'm not lost in a cave in a tunnel not knowing I will reach the end and towards the light.

Though the topic is Buteyko, it is also about CO2 and sugar metabolism and about the foundational health from optimizing sugar metabolism above other attempts at optimization.

I hope that you'll realize that the CP is a great tool, under appreciated, but very valuable even though you don't need to pay for this test.
 

rsandy

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Those are all very good observations, and thank you for acknowledging our agreement on many points, which are the more substantive points.

My experience, though, with regards to the practice of Buteyko and with the emphasis on walking (and exercise in various forms) would lead me to value more the balance achieved by optimal sugar metabolism and the downstream effects on general health, than the need for exercise to the extent it is emphasized in the current culture of health.

Ray Peat doesn't do much exercising, as one interview of him made me think he was being facetious when he said he only did a certain exercise once in ten years. I laughed because I have been on a 10-yr (and running) hiatus on my regular exercise routine, if only to prove to myself if exercise is that so important. I was motivated by general medical advice, a pop culture thing for sure, that seeks to explain poor health due to lack of exercise, if not genetics and age. Little mention of the food and nutritional lifestyle practiced daily, much less the Silver- bullet approaches in the form of prescription drugs and vaccines that doctors push.

I did not get obese, and my health improved. My blood sugar regulation became better, in fact optimal. My energy levels improved and my sleep improved. My allergic rhinitis disappeared, leaving me with no perceived allergies. I can drink regular Coke guilt-free, and I can eat sweet sugar-laces treat with no feeling of bad effects on me, where before I would become hungry or sleepy or develop symptoms--runny nose, hiccups, coughing-that would develop into a fever the next morning. A lot of exercising can't do that more me. I used to run a lot. Not the marathon kind, but it would be around 5k.

It didn't prove exercising is bad, but it proved to me improving my sugar metabolism was job 1 above all things. I would do a DIY 5hr blood glucose tolerance test, for me the gold standard of testing for blood sugar regulation, and looking at it I would know the state of blood sugar regulation I have. And it correlates to my feeling of health.

Had I not had this test, I would not have realized how impaired my health was. It led me to have eleven mercury fillings removed and undergo chelation to remove mercury from my system. Once removed, my blood sugar regulation improved greatly. Since that time, which is twenty years and running, I have have no fever nor flu where before that, I was having twice a year of either fever and flu.

One benefit of not exercising too much I had was that it gave me more time to focus on learning about how to improve my health, and learning from aray Peat and from this forum added further to my healing.

I'm a very hypertensive individual. 200/150 is not even the highest lately. I'm taking no prescription drugs. And I have no health issues, nary a headache nor a tummy ache. Hair is thinning, libido so so, but that is the tradeoff for letting the body adapt to whatever is causing my high blood pressure. Why let stupid doctors override the wisdom of the body? But rest assured, an optimal sugar metabolism and a well-varied food lifestyle that assures me I'm free from deficiencies, gives me the energy to adapt optimally to health issues. That's why optimal sugar metabolism is job 1 for me. I understand perfectly the body in adapting will concentrate more on survival and cosmetic issues are less important, hence the thinning hair.

Had I not had the good fortune of removing the mercury toxicity, I would be hypoxemic--meaning my blood would carry little oxygen. My oxygen saturation values could be at most 90%, and I would be chronically deficient in oxygen going to my tissues, and with that I would always be low on CO2, and high in lactic acid. And this would explain why, pre-mercury detox, I would tire out running for a short distance of 1k, muscles already sore from lactic acid accumulating it them. After my mercury detox, I could easily run 5k with a large portion being steep uphill climb, even without much training.

One thing I do that I learned from Buteyko is to always close my mouth. With good sugar metabolism and high CO2 production, and helped by this habit of closing my mouth, I do not need to practice as much Buteyko. Or maybe I would not even need to.

Remember that Buteyko is a therapy, and therapies are for people with a condition. We were not born with a need to practice Buteyko. Buteyko is a therapy to assist those of us, who for one reason or another, suffer from low CO2 in their blood.

Buteyko can help in those situations, but I think of it as a crutch only. To get read of a crutch, my body has to heal. But I have to know how to heal it, so it can be free of a crutch.

My example of mercury toxicity is just one of many that causes me to have poor sugar metabolism. That is a major cause for my poor poor health. I found the big banana, so to speak, and it made the biggest difference for me. From there, I've made other improvements, but without this one, it would still be a slog.

I now ask, how would you approach your issues now? Would my experience allow you to approach it in a different way? Do you agree with my view that Buteyko, as helpful as it has been to you, is still a crutch that you should eventually discard?

Many good points. I can respect your views. There is probably some truth here. Ray is something I suspect has a high CP.

How I would approach it: total emphasis on Buteyko, with main towards getting CP very high.

No, I dont think Buteyko is a crutch. Sadly many don't understand the method at all and think it's just a form of breathing exercise for treating asthma. It is so much deeper than breathing exercise. It's a way to reach the highest levels of health, vitality, and function humanly possible. Breathing is the bridge to the Universe. The case studies of transformation through breathing are unbelievable. People go from invalids to superhuman, it's amazing.
 

yerrag

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I could be wrong. Those are my opinions only. If you see that differently, it's because you appreciate it more than I do, seeing how much it has benefited you more than I did. Perhaps I can experience what you experienced eventually. I'm not seeing it currently of much use in my context. My healing now is better off without using it. Using it is an impediment to me. Once my hypertensive situation is resolved, I may try it again.

Superhuman piques my renewed interest in it.
Many good points. I can respect your views. There is probably some truth here. Ray is something I suspect has a high CP.

How I would approach it: total emphasis on Buteyko, with main towards getting CP very high.

No, I dont think Buteyko is a crutch. Sadly many don't understand the method at all and think it's just a form of breathing exercise for treating asthma. It is so much deeper than breathing exercise. It's a way to reach the highest levels of health, vitality, and function humanly possible. Breathing is the bridge to the Universe. The case studies of transformation through breathing are unbelievable. People go from invalids to superhuman, it's amazing.
 

rsandy

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Of course. See, if you heard the stories I have, you would understand why I became so fascinated with Buteyko. I have personally got on calls with people who made incredible transformations with Buteyko, who unearthed unbelievable potential, got into senior positions at work, wrote books, made great art. I have sat face to face with people who went from bed-bound to being able to work endlessly and have super human endurance, effortlessly.

The reason this information doesn't trickle down to people who are healing, like this forum, is because these people have boundless energy and are out in the world absolutely thriving. They would never come to a forum to talk to sick people. Why would they, they are happy, who would drag themselves down?

I am dedicated to my practice and am have a great network of Buteyko people. I was quite involved in the Peat world, used to post here a lot under a different username, but I think Buteyko and Peat's ideas can be made to work synergistically. When you marry them together, there is the possibility of genius.

I praise your open-mindedness, this in itself suggests health, so I think you are clearly onto something with your own thinking. Wish you success.
 

yerrag

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@rsandy Thank you for being very generous with your approbation and for respecting my viewpoint, and for not taking offense if I had been been forceful.

Your point on healthy people not being on forums is on point. Then again healthy people have little to share if they're born healthy and by some struck of luck didn't have to get exposed to the many deprivations and impositions associated with living in a modern city. Or that have mentors growing up that are wise in the ways of the world and have taught them all the gotchas of living in this day and age. But I think it's more likely these people have been thru healing already, and have no reason to get healed again in a health forum. Still, I hold open not just the possibility, but the likelihood, that they have not been exposed to Ray Peat's ideas on metabolism as it relates to CO2 and its importance to oxygenation and to being healthy and energetic and whose faculties, both physical as well as mental, are much more developed than the regular person. As such, they can be considered superhuman but without needing to practice Buteyko. If these people you speak of are in the peak of health and haven't heard of Ray Peat, it is not likely they would be interested in learning about Ray Peat's ideas. For one method is more than enough.

But I agree with your thinking that Buteyko and Ray Peat can complement each other, for they both value many of the same principles of health.

Following is a response earlier I gave to @Heidi, to which I expressed my belief that abilities I presume you to consider to be superhuman is possible with good sugar metabolism that produces a lot of carbon dioxide, and which also provides for optimal acid-base balance:

It's a good sign. I would be able to hold my breath underwater for a longer period. I would even be able to adjust to higher elevations more quickly, and if I'm super good at it, and if I were a mountain climber, I could test my limits and climb high mountains and come back down without the need for supplemental oxygen. And with good acid-base balance that I believe comes with having a long control pause, it would help make my heart pump more efficiently, as calcium, as it goes in and out of the cell, would provide the ionic gradient to drive the contraction of heart muscles. And with that, calcification won't happen in my organs because calcium does not accumulate inside the cell, as it gets carried out into the ecf each time the mitochondria produces carbon dioxide, as the carbonic acid will bind to the calcium and transport it out of the cell.

Also, I would have more endurance when running long distance, because there's not much buildup of lactic acid. And also, with the optimal pH is the idea of having a healthful terrain, which provides a homeostatis that keeps cells from getting deranged and turning into cancer cells.

I wonder if there is more to these when you refer to superhuman abilities. Perhaps I missed the mental part.

I would like to hear you expound more on the topic.
 

Heidi

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Jan 23, 2016
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No, I dont think Buteyko is a crutch. Sadly many don't understand the method at all and think it's just a form of breathing exercise for treating asthma. It is so much deeper than breathing exercise. It's a way to reach the highest levels of health, vitality, and function humanly possible. Breathing is the bridge to the Universe. The case studies of transformation through breathing are unbelievable. People go from invalids to superhuman, it's amazing.
I sense this about Buteyko, too. And would be grateful if you shared more specifics about your own and/or other's experiences. I mentioned on another thread that I am impressed with your dedication and transformation. I would like to learn from it and you if you are willing to share more. Are there other Buteyko forums that you know about? Thank you.
 
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