safely using supplemental CO2

[Blossom]

post 118177 I used to think I was fat and that was tough, but now I worry because I know my cells are hydrophilic.

I'm sorry to hear about your edema issue but I'm glad you are not taking diamox if you started having blood in your urine! SQu mentioned that urea helped her with edema. I wonder if that might be worth checking into? I've not used it internally because I can't find a good source, and for all I know it might be hard on the kidneys too, but I just thought I'd mention it as a possibility of something to research further since it's helped SQu.

 

[brandonk]

I have a 5 lb CO2 tank that I had filled with "food grade" (scam?) CO2 for like 15 bucks. I breathe it in for a couple hours every other night (with some tubing and a cheap regulator). Before that I would go and buy blocks of dry ice, put them in a bag, and breathe out of it. That works pretty well but it is a bit price prohibitive to do it every day.

I also have a pulse oximeter and oddly enough, I find that when I breathe the CO2, my O2 levels stay plastered to 99. If I am walking around, it fluctuates, but with the CO2 breathing it stays high.

I have found this practice to be one of the best I have ever done as far as calming me down, making the supplements I take more effective, keeping the skin looking vibrant, and aiding in sleep. It has allowed me to get on caffeine and I am surprised that people can do some of the "peaty" things without it.

I've not tried inhaling CO2 but roughly the way I understand it to work is that the level of CO2 in the inhaled air displaces O2 (and nitrogen) in the same inhaled air.

So if you are breathing a typical "hypercapnia" level of 5-7% CO2, then your inhaled oxygen might be reduced by about 2-5% (and nitrogen would also be reduced).

At some point, this reduction in inhaled oxygen from "hypercapnia" should show up on the oximeter, because the oximeter simply uses red light to measure the intensity of the red color of hemoglobin in the arterial blood, and the hemoglobin will appear less red as it binds with less oxygen and more carbon dioxide.

But until (or unless) you reach this point of "hypercapnia", the oximeter will continue to read a high saturation. For example, you might in theory breathe 1-3% CO2 without any measurable decrease in saturation on the oximeter, especially if you are breathing excessively and causing too much carbon dioxide to be lost.

And of course, you're right, and even lesser levels of CO2 are very likely to have beneficial effects, as you've experienced.

 

[Sheila]

Hello Brandonk
You are quite right, those external nose strips (allegedly to stop snoring) open up the nostrils potentially the opposite of what one might want to induce hypercapnia. If opening the nostrils reduces heavy breathing, which is where perhaps snoring can originate (though lowered metabolism, gut irritation is also all in there I think), then perhaps it may also have some positive effect. But not probably for what we are trying to do. So thank you for trying to put me straight and zero points to me for hoping the strips did the opposite ie. pinched the nose slightly!
I have, what maybe, a stupid question on the oximeter. Does saturation of Hb on the RBC really show oxygen utilisation. Would it be possible to have 99% saturation but no CO2 to release the O2 and similarly, is it possible to have 99% saturation and good release due to (perhaps not hypercapnic levels) but some level of endogenous CO2 that allows gaseous exchange to work properly. To my mind, the oximeter has the same potential problem as the blood glucose monitor, that what is going on in the blood may, or may not represent what is happening in the metabolising tissues.
Perhaps you would be kind enough to put me right again?
Many thanks
Sheila

 

[brandonk]

post 118309 Hello Brandonk
...Does saturation of Hb on the RBC really show oxygen utilisation. Would it be possible to have 99% saturation but no CO2 to release the O2 and similarly, is it possible to have 99% saturation and good release due to (perhaps not hypercapnic levels) but some level of endogenous CO2 that allows gaseous exchange to work properly. To my mind, ... what is going on in the blood may, or may not represent what is happening in the metabolising tissues.
Perhaps you would be kind enough to put me right again?
Many thanks
Sheila

I think you are quite right and O2 saturation when measured on the fingertip does not by any means demonstrate utilization in the tissue.

For example, having a high saturation measured on the fingertip could be an indication of poor utilization (if as is common, the finger is cold and using very little O2).

Similarly, having a low saturation on the fingertip could be an indication of high utilization, for example, if you are breathing slowly and utilizing the oxygen throughout your body before it even reaches the fingertip.

Of course, the converse also holds, and low saturation could be sign of respiratory or cardiovascular impairment, so you really can't tell. And high saturation could be a sign that you are hyperventilating or under stress.

The advantage of the oximeter is that relative to your own "normal", you can see the saturation go down when you breathe slowly, meaning that you have likely achieved a higher concentration of CO2 (unless you have emphysema, COPD, or some other respiratory impairment).

 

[Philomath]

post 118030 There's been some discussion in the past on using a CO2 tank for breathing CO2, but it seems to be pretty scattered over the forum, and I'm left wondering how to do things properly. I remember reading posts by visionofstrength, and it seems they may have been banned at some point, but they were breathing supplemental CO2 and measuring it with some kind of monitor. I have a 5lb CO2 tank and regulator, and I've experimented with sitting in a giant bag full of co2, but it's kind of a pain and I'm wondering what others have done. I'd like to try breathing a supplemental amount of CO2, but I'm not sure what a safe way to do so is, to avoid too high of a percentage.

I'm also interested in purchasing a device for measuring the level of exhaled CO2, but I haven't found much that's affordable. I know visionofstrength had mentioned something, but I can't seem to track down the post. Anyone have any ideas? I'd love to be able to measure my CO2 when I'm feeling panicky to see how well it correlates with fearful states. It seems there's surprisingly (or maybe not so given the state of pharma) little research on this stuff.

From a Visionofstrength direct message:

I just use CO2 sensing at rest. I've experimented with measuring O2 consumption, and it didn't add anything when at rest (though it would be needed to measure metabolism during exercise).

I got my CO2 sensor here:
http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2 ... co2-sensor
SprintIR WR 20% CO2 for $229.00
GC-0017

With this cable to connect the sensor to a Windows PC:
http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2 ... ent-cables
GSS COZIR & SPRINTIR SDK Cable for $49.95
CM-0032-GC

I also use this filter and trap:
http://www.co2meter.com/products/sensor ... ters-traps
Hydrophobic Filter (0.20 micron) Qty.10 for $49.00
CM-0118
Particulate Filter (150 micron) Qty.10 for $29.00
CM-0117
Water Trap Qty.1 for $19.00
CM-0112


And an aquarium pump from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001BOD9JI

and some aquarium hose:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002AQ0TS

and a nasal cannula to sample the exhaled air:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0052TVPEO


PS. Sorry, I forgot this tube cap!
http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2 ... ap-adapter

The company at CO2Meter.com talked me through each step on the phone, so I could connect the hose to the pump. filter and sensor.

 

[Sheila]

Thank you Brandonk, I appreciate your time to explain this to me. Sheila

 

[barefooter]

post 118030 There's been some discussion in the past on using a CO2 tank for breathing CO2, but it seems to be pretty scattered over the forum, and I'm left wondering how to do things properly. I remember reading posts by visionofstrength, and it seems they may have been banned at some point, but they were breathing supplemental CO2 and measuring it with some kind of monitor. I have a 5lb CO2 tank and regulator, and I've experimented with sitting in a giant bag full of co2, but it's kind of a pain and I'm wondering what others have done. I'd like to try breathing a supplemental amount of CO2, but I'm not sure what a safe way to do so is, to avoid too high of a percentage.

I'm also interested in purchasing a device for measuring the level of exhaled CO2, but I haven't found much that's affordable. I know visionofstrength had mentioned something, but I can't seem to track down the post. Anyone have any ideas? I'd love to be able to measure my CO2 when I'm feeling panicky to see how well it correlates with fearful states. It seems there's surprisingly (or maybe not so given the state of pharma) little research on this stuff.

From a Visionofstrength direct message:

I just use CO2 sensing at rest. I've experimented with measuring O2 consumption, and it didn't add anything when at rest (though it would be needed to measure metabolism during exercise).

I got my CO2 sensor here:
http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2 ... co2-sensor
SprintIR WR 20% CO2 for $229.00
GC-0017

With this cable to connect the sensor to a Windows PC:
http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2 ... ent-cables
GSS COZIR & SPRINTIR SDK Cable for $49.95
CM-0032-GC

I also use this filter and trap:
http://www.co2meter.com/products/sensor ... ters-traps
Hydrophobic Filter (0.20 micron) Qty.10 for $49.00
CM-0118
Particulate Filter (150 micron) Qty.10 for $29.00
CM-0117
Water Trap Qty.1 for $19.00
CM-0112


And an aquarium pump from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001BOD9JI

and some aquarium hose:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002AQ0TS

and a nasal cannula to sample the exhaled air:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0052TVPEO


PS. Sorry, I forgot this tube cap!
http://www.co2meter.com/collections/co2 ... ap-adapter

The company at CO2Meter.com talked me through each step on the phone, so I could connect the hose to the pump. filter and sensor.

Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for. From reading old posts, it also sounded like Visionofstrength may have written some custom software for measuring end-tidal CO2. Do you know anything about this?

 

[Dan W]

post 118351 From reading old posts, it also sounded like Visionofstrength may have written some custom software for measuring end-tidal CO2. Do you know anything about this?

If I understand the site correctly, I think their software would be good enough for monitoring and logging the values. Not sure what VOS was doing though, so it'd still be interesting to hear from someone who had his software.