Ray Peat Email Advice Depository Discussion/Comment Thread

[goodandevil]

Guru, have you posted that somewhere?

I sent him this question, the first diagram was his reply, and I include the second for listed reagents. I sent these to the company who told me their fementige vitamin c was "natural" and i never heard back.

 

[goodandevil]

Left out the actual question i sent to ray:

"The company told me this vit c was obtained from fermentation and is not synthetic. Thank you.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000PJDYB8/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_9Xo-zbXSHJQT7"

He replied with the first diagram above.

 

[Diokine]

I asked about lead levels in an ascorbic acid product called "Quali-C," made in the United Kingdom. I think the vast majority of ascorbic acid is manufactured in China, and lead is a serious concern. Here is the response;

DSM has 2 production facilities for Vitamin C, one for Quali-C in our DSM Dalry plant in the United Kingdom and one for Jiangshan C in our DSM Jiangshan plant in China.

In both facilities, Sulphuric Acid is used as an intermediate in the process.

In both cases the specification for the sulphuric acid used requires heavy metals to be below 100 ppm for Dalry and below 150 ppm for Jiangshan.

The specification for lead in the final product Ascorbic Acid is not more than 2 ppm, which is frequently measured.

<2ppm in the final product is fairly high. Certifications from scientific supplies generally show <1ppm and there is one available which has been treated especially to remove metal contamination, @ .01ppm.

L-Ascorbic acid
$140 for 100 grams doesn't seem terrible.

 

[goodandevil]

I asked about lead levels in an ascorbic acid product called "Quali-C," made in the United Kingdom. I think the vast majority of ascorbic acid is manufactured in China, and lead is a serious concern. Here is the response;



<2ppm in the final product is fairly high. Certifications from scientific supplies generally show <1ppm and there is one available which has been treated especially to remove metal contamination, @ .01ppm.

L-Ascorbic acid
$140 for 100 grams doesn't seem terrible.

That looks like a pretty good source. I know ray said the vitamin c he used in the 50s was good then it was changed.

 

[Mito]

L-Ascorbic acid
$140 for 100 grams doesn't seem terrible.

There are other asorbic acid supplements available with similarly low lead contamination for a much lower cost. For example https://www.amazon.com/C-Salts®-Buffered-Vitamin-Powder-1000mg/dp/B004FO79FG.

 

[Diokine]

I wasn't able to find an analysis of the C-salts anywhere, do you know where one is? I'd be very happy to find out it was indeed that low

 

[Amazoniac]

Left out the actual question i sent to ray:

"The company told me this vit c was obtained from fermentation and is not synthetic. Thank you.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000PJDYB8/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_9Xo-zbXSHJQT7"

He replied with the first diagram above.

Thank you!
@Janelle525

 

[Mito]

I wasn't able to find an analysis of the C-salts anywhere, do you know where one is? I'd be very happy to find out it was indeed that low

 

[Diokine]

Beautiful.

 

[Wagner83]

Ray Peat Email Advice Depository
@haidut
From wikipedia: NAD(P)H dehydrogenase (quinone 1) - Wikipedia

Vitamin K is used as radiation sensitizer or in mixtures with other chemotherapeutic drugs to treat several types of cancer. ROS generated in redox cycling contributes to anticancer activity of vitamin K. NQO1 competes with enzymes that redox cycle vitamin K to formation of semiquinone and ROS. NQO1is therefore able to detoxify vitamin K3 and protect cells against oxidative stress.[13]

 

[Stilgar]

Q: I am looking to travel in the summer and am based in Europe. All of the airports in the UK have 'millimeter wave' scanners at security.

How dangerous do you think these are compared to say, a modern mobile phone?

As someone who is presently at risk of thyroid cancer, is it worthwhile me going to the trouble of three days on trains and boats to reach my destination? I would be quite willing to do so, although it is expensive. I know that sometimes travelling to somewhere and back can mean being scanned up to four times in one trip. Are these scanners something to avoid completely, or is occasional exposure (say every few years to travel), okay?”

Ray: “The US government has an essentially perfect record for several decades of lying about the safety of the things they do to the public. A government official told me they secretly scan people entering or leaving the country, using penetrating radiation, probably gamma rays, since they can scan people inside cars. I don’t know how European governments feel about the health of tourists, but I think it’s generally better for the health to avoid airports.”

Biomed Opt Express. 2011 Sep 1;2(9):2679-89.
Non-thermal effects of terahertz radiation on gene expression in mouse stem
cells.
Alexandrov BS, Rasmussen KØ, Bishop AR, Usheva A, Alexandrov LB, Chong S, Dagon
Y, Booshehri LG, Mielke CH, Phipps ML, Martinez JS, Chen HT, Rodriguez G.
In recent years, terahertz radiation sources are increasingly being exploited in
military and civil applications. However, only a few studies have so far been
conducted to examine the biological effects associated with terahertz radiation.
In this study, we evaluated the cellular response of mesenchymal mouse stem cells
exposed to THz radiation. We apply low-power radiation from both a pulsed
broad-band (centered at 10 THz) source and from a CW laser (2.52 THz) source.
Modeling, empirical characterization, and monitoring techniques were applied to
minimize the impact of radiation-induced increases in temperature. qRT-PCR was
used to evaluate changes in the transcriptional activity of selected hyperthermic
genes. We found that temperature increases were minimal, and that the
differential expression of the investigated heat shock proteins (HSP105, HSP90,
and CPR) was unaffected, while the expression of certain other genes
(Adiponectin, GLUT4, and PPARG) showed clear effects of the THz irradiation after
prolonged, broad-band exposure.

6. PLoS One. 2011;6(5):e19800.
DNA dynamics is likely to be a factor in the genomic nucleotide repeats
expansions related to diseases.
Alexandrov BS(1), Valtchinov VI, Alexandrov LB, Gelev V, Dagon Y, Bock J, Kohane
IS, Rasmussen KØ, Bishop AR, Usheva A.
(1)Theoretical Division, Los Alamos National Laboratory, Los Alamos, New Mexico,
United States of America.
Erratum in
PLoS One. 2011;6(6). doi:10.1371/annotation/f68e9b71-cae1-4f9c-9308-a444d3ea753d.
Trinucleotide repeats sequences (TRS) represent a common type of genomic DNA
motif whose expansion is associated with a large number of human diseases. The
driving molecular mechanisms of the TRS ongoing dynamic expansion across
generations and within tissues and its influence on genomic DNA functions are not
well understood. Here we report results for a novel and notable collective
breathing behavior of genomic DNA of tandem TRS, leading to propensity for large
local DNA transient openings at physiological temperature. Our Langevin molecular
dynamics (LMD) and Markov Chain Monte Carlo (MCMC) simulations demonstrate that
the patterns of openings of various TRSs depend specifically on their length. The
collective propensity for DNA strand separation of repeated sequences serves as a
precursor for outsized intermediate bubble states independently of the
G/C-content. We report that repeats have the potential to interfere with the
binding of transcription factors to their consensus sequence by altered DNA
breathing dynamics in proximity of the binding sites. These observations might
influence ongoing attempts to use LMD and MCMC simulations for TRS-related
modeling of genomic DNA functionality in elucidating the common denominators of
the dynamic TRS expansion mutation with potential therapeutic applications.

7. Phys Rev E Stat Nonlin Soft Matter Phys. 2011 Jan;83(1 Pt 1):011904.
Feigenbaum cascade of discrete breathers in a model of DNA.
Maniadis P(1), Alexandrov BS, Bishop AR, Rasmussen KØ.
(1)Theoretical Division, Los Alamos National Laboratory, Los Alamos, New Mexico
87545, USA.
We demonstrate that period-doubled discrete breathers appear from the
anticontinuum limit of the driven Peyrard-Bishop-Dauxois model of DNA. These
novel breathers result from a stability overlap between subharmonic solutions of
the driven Morse oscillator. Subharmonic breathers exist whenever a stability
overlap is present within the Feigenbaum cascade to chaos and therefore an entire
cascade of such breathers exists. This phenomenon is present in any driven
lattice where the on-site potential admits subharmonic solutions. In DNA these
breathers may have ramifications for cellular gene expression.

8. PLoS One. 2010 Dec 31;5(12):e15806.
Mammalian stem cells reprogramming in response to terahertz radiation.
Bock J(1), Fukuyo Y, Kang S, Phipps ML, Alexandrov LB, Rasmussen KØ, Bishop AR,
Rosen ED, Martinez JS, Chen HT, Rodriguez G, Alexandrov BS, Usheva A.
(1)Department of Medicine, Endocrinology, Harvard Medical School, Beth Israel
Deaconess Medical Center, Boston, Massachusetts, United States of America.
We report that extended exposure to broad-spectrum terahertz radiation results in
specific changes in cellular functions that are closely related to DNA-directed
gene transcription. Our gene chip survey of gene expression shows that whereas
89% of the protein coding genes in mouse stem cells do not respond to the applied
terahertz radiation, certain genes are activated, while other are repressed.
RT-PCR experiments with selected gene probes corresponding to transcripts in the
three groups of genes detail the gene specific effect. The response was not only
gene specific but also irradiation conditions dependent. Our findings suggest
that the applied terahertz irradiation accelerates cell differentiation toward
adipose phenotype by activating the transcription factor peroxisome
proliferator-activated receptor gamma (PPARG). Finally, our molecular dynamics
computer simulations indicate that the local breathing dynamics of the PPARG
promoter DNA coincides with the gene specific response to the THz radiation. We
propose that THz radiation is a potential tool for cellular reprogramming.

9. Phys Lett A. 2010 Feb 22;374(10):1214.
DNA Breathing Dynamics in the Presence of a Terahertz Field.
Alexandrov BS(1), Gelev V, Bishop AR, Usheva A, Rasmussen KO.
(1)Theoretical Division and Center for Nonlinear Studies, Los Alamos National
Laboratory, Los Alamos, New Mexico 87545.
We consider the influence of a terahertz field on the breathing dynamics of
double-stranded DNA. We model the spontaneous formation of spatially localized
openings of a damped and driven DNA chain, and find that linear instabilities
lead to dynamic dimerization, while true local strand separations require a
threshold amplitude mechanism. Based on our results we argue that a specific
terahertz radiation exposure may significantly affect the natural dynamics of
DNA, and thereby influence intricate molecular processes involved in gene
expression and DNA replication.

10. Nucleic Acids Res. 2010 Apr;38(6):1790-5.
DNA dynamics play a role as a basal transcription factor in the positioning and
regulation of gene transcription initiation.
Alexandrov BS(1), Gelev V, Yoo SW, Alexandrov LB, Fukuyo Y, Bishop AR, Rasmussen
KØ, Usheva A.
(1)Los Alamos National Laboratory, Theoretical Division and Center for Nonlinear
Studies, Los Alamos, NM, USA.
We assess the role of DNA breathing dynamics as a determinant of promoter
strength and transcription start site (TSS) location. We compare DNA Langevin
dynamic profiles of representative gene promoters, calculated with the extended
non-linear PBD model of DNA with experimental data on transcription factor
binding and transcriptional activity. Our results demonstrate that DNA dynamic
activity at the TSS can be suppressed by mutations that do not affect basal
transcription factor binding-DNA contacts. We use this effect to establish the
separate contributions of transcription factor binding and DNA dynamics to
transcriptional activity. Our results argue against a purely 'transcription
factor-centric' view of transcription initiation, suggesting that both DNA
dynamics and transcription factor binding are necessary conditions for
transcription initiation.

1. Sci Rep. 2013;3:1184.
Specificity and heterogeneity of terahertz radiation effect on gene expression in
mouse mesenchymal stem cells.
Alexandrov BS(1), Phipps ML, Alexandrov LB, Booshehri LG, Erat A, Zabolotny J,
Mielke CH, Chen HT, Rodriguez G, Rasmussen KØ, Martinez JS, Bishop AR, Usheva A.
(1)Theoretical Division, Los Alamos National Laboratory, Los Alamos, NM 87545,
USA. [email protected]
We report that terahertz (THz) irradiation of mouse mesenchymal stem cells
(mMSCs) with a single-frequency (SF) 2.52 THz laser or pulsed broadband (centered
at 10 THz) source results in irradiation specific heterogenic changes in gene
expression. The THz effect depends on irradiation parameters such as the duration
and type of THz source, and on the degree of stem cell differentiation. Our
microarray survey and RT-PCR experiments demonstrate that prolonged broadband THz
irradiation drives mMSCs toward differentiation, while 2-hour irradiation
(regardless of THz sources) affects genes transcriptionally active in pluripotent
stem cells. The strictly controlled experimental environment indicates minimal
temperature changes and the absence of any discernable response to heat shock and
cellular stress genes imply a non-thermal response. Computer simulations of the
core promoters of two pluripotency markers reveal association between gene
upregulation and propensity for DNA breathing. We propose that THz radiation has
potential for non-contact control of cellular gene expression.

 

[raypeatclips]

Q: I am looking to travel in the summer and am based in Europe. All of the airports in the UK have 'millimeter wave' scanners at security.

How dangerous do you think these are compared to say, a modern mobile phone?

As someone who is presently at risk of thyroid cancer, is it worthwhile me going to the trouble of three days on trains and boats to reach my destination? I would be quite willing to do so, although it is expensive. I know that sometimes travelling to somewhere and back can mean being scanned up to four times in one trip. Are these scanners something to avoid completely, or is occasional exposure (say every few years to travel), okay?”

Ray: “The US government has an essentially perfect record for several decades of lying about the safety of the things they do to the public. A government official told me they secretly scan people entering or leaving the country, using penetrating radiation, probably gamma rays, since they can scan people inside cars. I don’t know how European governments feel about the health of tourists, but I think it’s generally better for the health to avoid airports.”

Biomed Opt Express. 2011 Sep 1;2(9):2679-89.
Non-thermal effects of terahertz radiation on gene expression in mouse stem
cells.
Alexandrov BS, Rasmussen KØ, Bishop AR, Usheva A, Alexandrov LB, Chong S, Dagon
Y, Booshehri LG, Mielke CH, Phipps ML, Martinez JS, Chen HT, Rodriguez G.
In recent years, terahertz radiation sources are increasingly being exploited in
military and civil applications. However, only a few studies have so far been
conducted to examine the biological effects associated with terahertz radiation.
In this study, we evaluated the cellular response of mesenchymal mouse stem cells
exposed to THz radiation. We apply low-power radiation from both a pulsed
broad-band (centered at 10 THz) source and from a CW laser (2.52 THz) source.
Modeling, empirical characterization, and monitoring techniques were applied to
minimize the impact of radiation-induced increases in temperature. qRT-PCR was
used to evaluate changes in the transcriptional activity of selected hyperthermic
genes. We found that temperature increases were minimal, and that the
differential expression of the investigated heat shock proteins (HSP105, HSP90,
and CPR) was unaffected, while the expression of certain other genes
(Adiponectin, GLUT4, and PPARG) showed clear effects of the THz irradiation after
prolonged, broad-band exposure.

6. PLoS One. 2011;6(5):e19800.
DNA dynamics is likely to be a factor in the genomic nucleotide repeats
expansions related to diseases.
Alexandrov BS(1), Valtchinov VI, Alexandrov LB, Gelev V, Dagon Y, Bock J, Kohane
IS, Rasmussen KØ, Bishop AR, Usheva A.
(1)Theoretical Division, Los Alamos National Laboratory, Los Alamos, New Mexico,
United States of America.
Erratum in
PLoS One. 2011;6(6). doi:10.1371/annotation/f68e9b71-cae1-4f9c-9308-a444d3ea753d.
Trinucleotide repeats sequences (TRS) represent a common type of genomic DNA
motif whose expansion is associated with a large number of human diseases. The
driving molecular mechanisms of the TRS ongoing dynamic expansion across
generations and within tissues and its influence on genomic DNA functions are not
well understood. Here we report results for a novel and notable collective
breathing behavior of genomic DNA of tandem TRS, leading to propensity for large
local DNA transient openings at physiological temperature. Our Langevin molecular
dynamics (LMD) and Markov Chain Monte Carlo (MCMC) simulations demonstrate that
the patterns of openings of various TRSs depend specifically on their length. The
collective propensity for DNA strand separation of repeated sequences serves as a
precursor for outsized intermediate bubble states independently of the
G/C-content. We report that repeats have the potential to interfere with the
binding of transcription factors to their consensus sequence by altered DNA
breathing dynamics in proximity of the binding sites. These observations might
influence ongoing attempts to use LMD and MCMC simulations for TRS-related
modeling of genomic DNA functionality in elucidating the common denominators of
the dynamic TRS expansion mutation with potential therapeutic applications.

7. Phys Rev E Stat Nonlin Soft Matter Phys. 2011 Jan;83(1 Pt 1):011904.
Feigenbaum cascade of discrete breathers in a model of DNA.
Maniadis P(1), Alexandrov BS, Bishop AR, Rasmussen KØ.
(1)Theoretical Division, Los Alamos National Laboratory, Los Alamos, New Mexico
87545, USA.
We demonstrate that period-doubled discrete breathers appear from the
anticontinuum limit of the driven Peyrard-Bishop-Dauxois model of DNA. These
novel breathers result from a stability overlap between subharmonic solutions of
the driven Morse oscillator. Subharmonic breathers exist whenever a stability
overlap is present within the Feigenbaum cascade to chaos and therefore an entire
cascade of such breathers exists. This phenomenon is present in any driven
lattice where the on-site potential admits subharmonic solutions. In DNA these
breathers may have ramifications for cellular gene expression.

8. PLoS One. 2010 Dec 31;5(12):e15806.
Mammalian stem cells reprogramming in response to terahertz radiation.
Bock J(1), Fukuyo Y, Kang S, Phipps ML, Alexandrov LB, Rasmussen KØ, Bishop AR,
Rosen ED, Martinez JS, Chen HT, Rodriguez G, Alexandrov BS, Usheva A.
(1)Department of Medicine, Endocrinology, Harvard Medical School, Beth Israel
Deaconess Medical Center, Boston, Massachusetts, United States of America.
We report that extended exposure to broad-spectrum terahertz radiation results in
specific changes in cellular functions that are closely related to DNA-directed
gene transcription. Our gene chip survey of gene expression shows that whereas
89% of the protein coding genes in mouse stem cells do not respond to the applied
terahertz radiation, certain genes are activated, while other are repressed.
RT-PCR experiments with selected gene probes corresponding to transcripts in the
three groups of genes detail the gene specific effect. The response was not only
gene specific but also irradiation conditions dependent. Our findings suggest
that the applied terahertz irradiation accelerates cell differentiation toward
adipose phenotype by activating the transcription factor peroxisome
proliferator-activated receptor gamma (PPARG). Finally, our molecular dynamics
computer simulations indicate that the local breathing dynamics of the PPARG
promoter DNA coincides with the gene specific response to the THz radiation. We
propose that THz radiation is a potential tool for cellular reprogramming.

9. Phys Lett A. 2010 Feb 22;374(10):1214.
DNA Breathing Dynamics in the Presence of a Terahertz Field.
Alexandrov BS(1), Gelev V, Bishop AR, Usheva A, Rasmussen KO.
(1)Theoretical Division and Center for Nonlinear Studies, Los Alamos National
Laboratory, Los Alamos, New Mexico 87545.
We consider the influence of a terahertz field on the breathing dynamics of
double-stranded DNA. We model the spontaneous formation of spatially localized
openings of a damped and driven DNA chain, and find that linear instabilities
lead to dynamic dimerization, while true local strand separations require a
threshold amplitude mechanism. Based on our results we argue that a specific
terahertz radiation exposure may significantly affect the natural dynamics of
DNA, and thereby influence intricate molecular processes involved in gene
expression and DNA replication.

10. Nucleic Acids Res. 2010 Apr;38(6):1790-5.
DNA dynamics play a role as a basal transcription factor in the positioning and
regulation of gene transcription initiation.
Alexandrov BS(1), Gelev V, Yoo SW, Alexandrov LB, Fukuyo Y, Bishop AR, Rasmussen
KØ, Usheva A.
(1)Los Alamos National Laboratory, Theoretical Division and Center for Nonlinear
Studies, Los Alamos, NM, USA.
We assess the role of DNA breathing dynamics as a determinant of promoter
strength and transcription start site (TSS) location. We compare DNA Langevin
dynamic profiles of representative gene promoters, calculated with the extended
non-linear PBD model of DNA with experimental data on transcription factor
binding and transcriptional activity. Our results demonstrate that DNA dynamic
activity at the TSS can be suppressed by mutations that do not affect basal
transcription factor binding-DNA contacts. We use this effect to establish the
separate contributions of transcription factor binding and DNA dynamics to
transcriptional activity. Our results argue against a purely 'transcription
factor-centric' view of transcription initiation, suggesting that both DNA
dynamics and transcription factor binding are necessary conditions for
transcription initiation.

1. Sci Rep. 2013;3:1184.
Specificity and heterogeneity of terahertz radiation effect on gene expression in
mouse mesenchymal stem cells.
Alexandrov BS(1), Phipps ML, Alexandrov LB, Booshehri LG, Erat A, Zabolotny J,
Mielke CH, Chen HT, Rodriguez G, Rasmussen KØ, Martinez JS, Bishop AR, Usheva A.
(1)Theoretical Division, Los Alamos National Laboratory, Los Alamos, NM 87545,
USA. [email protected]
We report that terahertz (THz) irradiation of mouse mesenchymal stem cells
(mMSCs) with a single-frequency (SF) 2.52 THz laser or pulsed broadband (centered
at 10 THz) source results in irradiation specific heterogenic changes in gene
expression. The THz effect depends on irradiation parameters such as the duration
and type of THz source, and on the degree of stem cell differentiation. Our
microarray survey and RT-PCR experiments demonstrate that prolonged broadband THz
irradiation drives mMSCs toward differentiation, while 2-hour irradiation
(regardless of THz sources) affects genes transcriptionally active in pluripotent
stem cells. The strictly controlled experimental environment indicates minimal
temperature changes and the absence of any discernable response to heat shock and
cellular stress genes imply a non-thermal response. Computer simulations of the
core promoters of two pluripotency markers reveal association between gene
upregulation and propensity for DNA breathing. We propose that THz radiation has
potential for non-contact control of cellular gene expression.

European airports seem so much more relaxed than the authoritarian UK ones. As I left the UK and entered an European airport once the guy behind the desk didn't even look at my passport, perhaps because they know how difficult UK are and we all passed through there. The scanners seem almost non existent in comparison to the UK.

You can refuse the millimeter wave scanner you know, and I have, on the grounds I said I didn't think it was safe. The resulting 10 minutes made me feel a bit like a criminal but it was more awkward than anything. Someone I was travelling with said they didn't care about going into the scanner they'd rather do that and it'd be too embarrassing to refuse like I did.

 

[Stilgar]

European airports seem so much more relaxed than the authoritarian UK ones. As I left the UK and entered an European airport once the guy behind the desk didn't even look at my passport, perhaps because they know how difficult UK are and we all passed through there. The scanners seem almost non existent in comparison to the UK.

You can refuse the millimeter wave scanner you know, and I have, on the grounds I said I didn't think it was safe. The resulting 10 minutes made me feel a bit like a criminal but it was more awkward than anything. Someone I was travelling with said they didn't care about going into the scanner they'd rather do that and it'd be too embarrassing to refuse like I did.

Yeah, I know that can you can potentially refuse, but I have heard differing reports of success of refusal in the UK. It also makes me damn nervous standing out in the crowd like that, I am such a wimp! I can only imagine the rules will get worse, so I’m keen to explore and get used to train and boat travel generally. Europe is generally very navigable by train, and there are sleeper trains etc. Ray has spoken of the merits of moving through space on trains or cars and how it can be stress relieving. And it might be fun.

I’ve got to go from the UK to Greece and back via Switzerland. The trains and boat are expensive but so are one way flights, so it is working out about the same.

You’ve got to weigh up the risks I guess.

 

[raypeatclips]

Yeah, I know that can you can potentially refuse, but I have heard differing reports of success of refusal in the UK. It also makes me damn nervous standing out in the crowd like that, I am such a wimp! I can only imagine the rules will get worse, so I’m keen to explore and get used to train and boat travel generally. Europe is generally very navigable by train, and there are sleeper trains etc. Ray has spoken of the merits of moving through space on trains or cars and how it can be stress relieving. And it might be fun.

I’ve got to go from the UK to Greece and back via Switzerland. The trains and boat are expensive but so are one way flights, so it is working out about the same.

You’ve got to weigh up the risks I guess.

What reports have you heard about refusing the scanner? They can't force you in there. It is pretty awkward refusing and they aren't happy about it but it's all done in 10 minutes, in my opinion it's worth it.

 

[Stilgar]

European airports seem so much more relaxed than the authoritarian UK ones. As I left the UK and entered an European airport once the guy behind the desk didn't even look at my passport, perhaps because they know how difficult UK are and we all passed through there. The scanners seem almost non existent in comparison to the UK.

You can refuse the millimeter wave scanner you know, and I have, on the grounds I said I didn't think it was safe. The resulting 10 minutes made me feel a bit like a criminal but it was more awkward than anything. Someone I was travelling with said they didn't care about going into the scanner they'd rather do that and it'd be too embarrassing to refuse like I did.

Which airport did you refuse at? Would be great to know for future reference.

 

[raypeatclips]

Which airport did you refuse at? Would be great to know for future reference.

I'll PM you.

 

[Stilgar]

I think I was basing it on media reports from a few years ago of the period in which the UK had a ‘no scan, no fly’ policy. It seems it has changed since then?

 

[raypeatclips]

I think I was basing it on media reports from a few years ago of the period in which the UK had a ‘no scan, no fly’ policy. It seems it has changed since then?

I've never heard of that but then I don't really watch the news, but it doesn't surprise me if that comes into effect. Sounds like hysterical media trying to make people think it is normal to go into the machines, or that it's normal to just go along with the crowd. Manchester airport website specifically says you can refuse to be scanned and the procedure if you do.
Body Scanners | Manchester Airport

 

[Amazoniac]

You can refuse the millimeter wave scanner you know, and I have, on the grounds I said I didn't think it was safe. The resulting 10 minutes made me feel a bit like a criminal but it was more awkward than anything. Someone I was travelling with said they didn't care about going into the scanner they'd rather do that and it'd be too embarrassing to refuse like I did.

Why didn't you make it look even more awkward by keeping your hands together on your back and your head down while you waited for it?
This would be a plus: M W

 

[ilikecats]

@raypeatclips When i refused the scanner they made me stand inches away from the x ray machine they use for luggage to wait for someone to pat me down. I began to panic and I just did the body scanner because I know its less damaging then x ray radiation. I would have had to stand by it for 10 plus minutes since it was a busy day