PROJECT 15 (NON FULL): Ray Peat And Bud Weiss - The Biology Of Carbon Dioxide

Discussion in 'Interview Transcript Projects' started by burtlancast, Jun 20, 2016.

  1. burtlancast

    burtlancast Member

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    Lenght: 78 min
    Name: Ray Peat and Bud Weiss - The Biology of Carbon Dioxide
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  2. OP
    burtlancast

    burtlancast Member

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    Part 1 for Burt


    BD: So, it’s such a treat to me to introduce you all to one of the great mentors of my life, Doctor Raymond Peat.*applause*
    Let me start by asking you how many languages do you speak?

    RP: Well, a professor in Mexico introduced me during one of my talks there as being fluent in Spanish: that surprised me, because I’ve never thought of myself as being fluent in English, even. *laughter*
    But, at the high altitude (I was at 7500 feet), I think I was more fluent. *laughter*

    BW: Can you talk about your trip and how you got involved with Russians and the CO2.

    RP: Yea. In 1968, I took a trip to Russia to meet some of the professors I had been reading the work of. And it happened that most of them were on vacation, all summer. And so, mostly, I’ve depended on publications. Before 1950, there was quite a bit of Russian literature available in the United States. My parents and grandparents had some old books that I got my introduction to science from. All the way from 1860 up to fairly recent stuff; and homeopathy; and natural medicine. And one of the people I ran across, who was pretty famous back in 1945 or so, was J.C. Bose, who was a Hindu physicist, who studied in England. And he invented the radio in the 1890’s, and was thinking about the connections between the device that he used for receiving radio signals. He demonstrated in the 1890’s setting off a bell across the auditorium; and this receiver was powdered metal with an electrical connection. And the radio waves…for example, just a spark; but he had microwaves (millimeter waves transmitters, and such). So, they were really very sophisticated, even for present technology. And he would expose these metals powders to radio waves, and they would cohere and conduct electricity. And he naturally was thinking about the sensitivity of organisms, in comparison with this powdered physical state of matter. And to re-sensitize it, he would thump it; he had a little thing called a “decoherer”. So, as soon as he rang the bell, it would [thump?] itself and become sensitive again. And that kind of thinking… he started arguing that… he tried to distinguish the properties of sensitivity that plants and animals have, from the various properties of crystals, rocks, everything he could think of. And he showed that all of the defining features of life could be found in [an ounce?] of metal or rock. And he devised a thing that would give a million times amplification (not resolution; but it would show motion, amplified by a billion times). And he could show that, very easily, you stimulate a nerve and it twitches. Most people don’t think of nerves as being analogous to muscles, but they do contract when they’re stimulated. And if you stimulate them too much, it can even break the nerve fiber by contracting it until it can’t maintain its fine structure. But he showed that rocks, pieces of metal, would twitch when they were stimulated by any means. That mechanical and electrical properties went back and forth, both directions. And the English physiologists and physicists of the time didn’t like that at all. They were already getting committed to a mechanistic view of biology and neurology. And so, he went back to India and setup his own research institute there, which is still operating with his name. And I think it was Marconi who went to try to get him to develop the radio technology, many years later. But he was really about 120 years ahead of his time in everything.

    BD: I know you wanted to speak in particular about respiration and Szent-Györgyi and Otto Warburg, so maybe you could start with that.

    RP: When I ran into academic biology, I realized that there just wasn’t anything happening that seemed intelligent in American biology, all throughout the fifties. That was when I was going to college, and I decided that I would just read in the library all the science I wanted, and major in literature, and philosophy, and linguistics, and such. And when I was 18, I ran into William Blake in a literature course, and realized that, from the way he used language, he knew stuff about the physiology of the brain, among other things. But, [he] started me thinking in that direction. And so, I’ve read Swedenborg’s work on brain physiology. Again, in the 18th century, he knew stuff that was rediscovered only in the 20th century. But Blake was writing about this stuff 200 years too soon. And that helped guide me through the science literature. And, finally, in 1968, I decided that I could tolerate getting a degree in biology. But I have learned that you have to be quiet, not say what you think. *chuckles*
    Like, one of my professors explained nerve cells and Ph meters as both working on the basis of a membrane. All throughout the 20th century, they talked about the Ph glass membrane. But I’ve mentioned that you could get exactly the same Ph measurements if you filled your glass membrane with mercury instead of acid; and I’ve said:”Does that mean that the mercury diffuses freely through the glass membrane?” *chuckles*
    When you put 2 chambers separated by airspace, and measure the Ph on the outside of one, and the solution inside another one, does that mean that the protons are diffusing through that airspace? And I’ve learned that you shouldn’t do that. *laughter*




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  3. JayDee

    JayDee Member

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    First post :) I needed something from this interview and did the whole part 5.
    Unverified — Edit if you like.

    RP: When you look at the lifespan, not only our loss of bone and tissue with aging, but all animals — and even plants — suffer from a lack of CO2. If you lower it even plants won't do well, single-celled animals, etc. Quite a few animals have learned how to optimize CO2 in their environment. Salamanders and frogs, for example, will burrow in the mud, frogs will leave their nostrils out and breathe, as their skin is not losing CO2 anymore when they're buried in the mud, and they gradually load up on CO2. They found frogs in cement castings that broke open [and] decades later the frogs popped out! Also, in the 1940ies people experimented with, for example, poisoning to death rats or mice with 50% CO2, and keeping them dead for an hour and then reviving them. They had no brain damage. Giving zero oxygen supply to rats... if they gave them extra CO2 they weren't damaged by the absence of oxygen. So, for us — like the primitive organisms — it's more essential than oxygen.

    Q: ???naked moles??? Gotta hear this story...

    RP: There's a whole... They are all over... All the continents, I think, have variations on these but they're about the size of a big mouse, and mice usually live 2,5 years maximum or something like that. The naked mole rats that they've had in labs — even though they weren't in their natural habitat — lived 30 years. And they not only lived in burrows but they close off the entrances to their burrow and keep the oxygen way down — less than half of atmospheric, and the CO2 up around 5 or 6% — so that's more than the submarine experimenters got, but it increased their longevity tremendously. Queen bees live... One calculation was they live 47 times longer than worker bees — and the worker bees everyday go out into the atmosphere and they build up many times more free radicals [and] lipid peroxides in their tissues than the queens, because they are out breathing fresh air. A queen is breathing 5 or 6% CO2 in the hive. Also, the workers eat pollen and get a lot of PUFA that — in the absence of CO2 — ... these things produce the lipid peroxides. In one experiment people increased the CO2 in the tissues three times normal and saw that the normal amount of lipid peroxides went down to zero.

    Q: Recently, I read a medical paper about near-death experiences [NDE], and they had several patients who went into cardiac arrest when they were dying in a hospital, and then they returned to life. The only common denominator that they could find between these people was that they had very elevated levels of CO2. I'm wondering if you could respond to that?

    RP: A few people in the last ten years are starting to... I guess they are discovering it themselves and then looking back at the literature and seeing that CO2 protects not only against free radicals, lipid peroxidation... One group... Kogan is the Russian's name who has done a lot of work on the antioxidant effect of CO2. But quite a few people now — just the last few years — are starting to talk about permissive hypercapnia, where instead of ventilating someone to death... Two or three of the most popular ways hospitals kill people is giving them pure oxygen... When people, for example, aren't getting enough oxygen to the brain, they'll give them pure oxygen and then hyperventilate them. The idea is to shrink their brain by hyperventilating because it shuts down the blood circulation in the brain. But if they're dying of a lack of oxygen to the brain it's not what you ought to do. One of the first experiences I had with CO2 therapy was a person who several times had rushed to the emergency room with stroke symptoms — paralysis, and I think it was called Transient Ischemic Attack [TIA]. I told him about the Russian research with CO2 and suggested he'd drink a Coke when he had his attacks and that worked for him. I mentioned that in a nutrition class and I had said “soda water,” meaning like carbonated water — but the next week one of the students said that she had interpreted as “baking soda in water,” which basically is the same idea, but she said she gave a spoonful of baking soda to her mother who had been half paralyzed for six months and 15 minutes after drinking just a glass of baking soda water the paralysis lifted and stayed away. They're doing that sort of thing now just by NOT ventilating people to death, as is the typical hospital practice.
     
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