Ray Peat Email Advice Depository Discussion/Comment Thread

[superhuman]

Question about vitamin b supplements.

Dam this is interesting. Feel like i want to stop all

 

[Evgenius]

Q:"what dose of adamantane against flu?"
R:"Usually amantadine, the water soluble form has been used, but I suppose a similar dose of 100 or 200 mg would have some of the effects."

That dose looks ridiculously high to me, given my experience with Diamant.

 

[goodandevil]

Weaning, and it's impact on psychology:
R: "I’ve noticed that dogs and cats that are weaned too soon have odd needs for certain kinds of sensual experience, and I suppose there are similar effects in people, but I don’t know of any good studies, probably because most people have some personality problems related to it."

 

[goodandevil]

It's odd that he calls fisetin an 'activated carbonyl.' While fisetin does have a carbonyl, so do most other polphenols. I think most people would simply use the term 'polyphenol' here, instead of 'activated carbonyl.'

He is calling our attention to the carbonyl group, something that Koch might appreciate. I had always seen polyphenols from a pharmacology perspective: as enzyme inhibitors primarily. It would be interesting to analyze the metabolites of fisetin to see if its carbonyl group is reactive.. .

I presume the aromatic system supports the formation of an activated carbonyl and would stabilize it.

 

[paymanz]

On nitrous oxide:

Q: "is n2o inhalation harmful? The most i've read about is b12 deficiency." NB: i think he mentioned in an article that anesthetic gases like n2o can order the cell.

Ray: "Some of it breaks down to form NO; it isn’t the most harmful anesthetic, but it can be slightly harmful."

So does he recommends n2o inhalation?

Sounds like be doesnt.


Unsaturated fatty acids: Nutritionally essential, or toxic?

For example, a deficiency of the so-called essential fatty acids, EFA, makes animals more sensitive to some anesthetics, and more resistant to others. It makes them resistant to the anesthetics that act by promoting the actions of serotonin, but it prolongs the effects of those that don't act through serotonin, and these are the anesthetics such as xenon and nitrous oxide, that apparently act by stabilizing the structure of water, as described by Linus Pauling. Progesterone and the saturated fats seem to act partly through the stabilizing of cell water, and estrogen and the PUFA have opposing effects, creating cellular excitation while interfering with the stable cellular water structure.

Maybe he just mentioned it here to explain/prove PUFAs disturbing effect on water structure.

Has he mentioned n2o anywhere else?!

 

[goodandevil]

So does he recommends n2o inhalation?

Sounds like be doesnt.


Unsaturated fatty acids: Nutritionally essential, or toxic?


Maybe he just mentioned it here to explain/prove PUFAs disturbing effect on water structure.

Has he mentioned n2o anywhere else?!

No he doesnt recommend it, except perhaps as a necessary anaesthetic. I was hoping he would say it wasnt dangerous because i really like nitrous, it helps crystallize my thoughts, feels that way anyway.

 

[lampofred]

R: "It takes a larger dose on the skin than orally. Male pheromones cause a surge of estrogen in females. For example, a young woman who hadn’t menstruated in many months visited on a spring afternoon to ask my advice, and she stayed until it was getting cold so she borrowed my sweater. She returned it the next day, and said her period had started. That has been called the “male mouse effect,” a surge of estrogen that will cause a pregnant female to abort if it smells a new male, but it seems to be very strong in humans and mammals generally."

So androgenic that his presence literally brings girls out of menopause

 

[DaveFoster]

Does the MCT as a carrier oil [for vitamin A, retinol] absorb topically (say 20-25% absorbed) or only orally?

Peter C. Kassner from Health Natura: "According to Ray Peat, topical vitamin A is absorbed through the skin, however he suggests that a higher concentration like our 15,000iu is best. Note, he does not specifically promote our product."

15,000 IU * 1,000 drops = 15,000,000 (15 million) IU retinol per oz of MCT oil (in Idea Labs Retinil, he puts vitamin E in the bottle to prevent oxidation [possibly a 17% concentration of vitamin E])

 

[haidut]

Does the MCT as a carrier oil [for vitamin A, retinol] absorb topically (say 20-25% absorbed) or only orally?

Peter C. Kassner from Health Natura: "According to Ray Peat, topical vitamin A is absorbed through the skin, however he suggests that a higher concentration like our 15,000iu is best. Note, he does not specifically promote our product."

15,000 IU * 1,000 drops = 15,000,000 (15 million) IU retinol per oz of MCT oil (in Idea Labs Retinil, he puts vitamin E in the bottle to prevent oxidation [possibly a 17% concentration of vitamin E])

It does absorb topically, that is why we use MCT as co-solvent for Pansterone and androsterone.

 

[Wagner83]

@Travis @haidut, you may find some of the scientists he mentioned worth investigating.
Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

Was there any followup on this?

@tomisonbottom, No.

 

[Blossom]

Me:
Hi Ray,

I've looked a bit into minerals, vitamins and their balance which affect enzymes which in turn affect hormones. So in this regard I wonder what would be the purpose to manipulate hormones rather than minerals/vitamins intake, and last but not least, how would supplementing even low doses of hormones not lead to minerals/vitamins imbalances?
From what I understand enzymes are tightly regulated by nutrients, and if not enough of the right nutrients are provided then the body will not function properly, similarly, supplementing hormones may resolve issues in the short term but then induce deficiencies etc..

Ray:
The body has a powerful selective ability, able to extract things against a concentration gradient. For example, when hair is stripped of minerals and then dipped into a solution of minerals similar to the serum (high sodium, low potassium, etc.) the hair will take up potassium in preference to sodium. And the hair is dead—living cells have even greater selectivity. It’s energy that maintains the structural selectivity; thyroid provides energy, cholesterol/pregnenolone/
progesterone/DHEA reinforce structure.

Me:

Thanks, do you have any references I can look into regarding this topic of
Energy maintaining structure and its selectivity?

What would be the negative consequences of normalizing stress hormones through direct intervention? Without meeting the condition that got them to become elevated in the first place.


Raymond:

When cortisol is increased, though it does reduce inflammation and reduce leakiness, it’s antagonistic to androgens, and shifts the balance toward protein catabolism, and lowers the oxidation of glucose.

Related to selectivity of energized cytoplasm---D.N. Nasonov, V.I. Vernadsky, H.G. Bungenberg de Jong, G.N. Ling, A.S. Troshin, V. Matveev, Sidney Fox, and recently I think Jeremy L. England is working on related things, energy creating order.

Me:

If serotonin or estrogen were involved rather than cortisol, would you have the same approach?

Do you know if particular conditions could lead to high cortisol, serotonin or estrogen and unless they are addressed the need for supplemental hormones or drugs will always be present?
The only people I've seen use hormonal supplements and not need them anymore used thyroid, but most people need the supplements continuously and quite a few had troubles with dhea, pregnenolone or thyroid. Micro-dosing psilocybin or lsd appears to benefit all and relieve depression but again the benefits vanish upon cessation.

Ray:

Although occasionally a short supplementation of progesterone, pregnenolone, or thyroid will decisively correct a problem, most often there has been something environmental-nutritional that had to be changed. If people don’t change their diet and/or problematic surroundings, then they are dependent on hormones, stimulants, antiinflammatories, etc.

This is one of the best Ray email exchanges I've read.

 

[aquaman]

On Naltrexone dosage to stimulate lutenizing hormone:

Q: "I have 50mg pills, do you think the low-dose or normal dose is best, and for how long to stimulate LH would you say? "

R: "My experience has been with doses of one or two milligrams, repeated for two or three days, when the effect is achieved, then waiting two weeks or more to see if repeating the process is needed."

wow - 1 or 2 mg!

 

[lollipop]

This is one of the best Ray email exchanges I've read.

+1

 

[raypeatclips]

+1

+2

Thanks for posting this @Wagner83 , great exchange. I feel this quote alone should be spread more,

"If people don’t change their diet and/or problematic surroundings, then they are dependent on hormones, stimulants, antiinflammatories, etc."

I see @Blossom already beat me to adding it to the quotations section!

 

[HDD]

I remember Ray saying that sometimes changing diet/environment isn’t enough. I think it was for those who are older, more lipofuscin? I need to find where he was talking about it.

I also wonder if someone’s mother was hypothyroid during pregnancy, if thyroid will always be necessary?

 

[HDD]

“So after a certain point, even changing your diet away from the toxic, inhibiting fats won't do the job of restoring your thyroid function if you have accumulated so much of this age pigment, because it is going to waste any oxygen that your cells can receive. At this point, a whole system of degenerative conditions sets in, in which the mucoproteins increase because of the stress conditions, which are basically the same as the low thyroid conditions -- all of these lead to accumulating mucoid materials accumulating -- the blood vessels are lined with this material, the red blood cells can't pick up oxygen as efficiently because of this mucopolysaccharide layer, the lung sacs get expanded and thickened so that the air doesn't diffuse through them efficiently, and that increases the susceptibility of the aging animal to stress. A smaller stress makes them more acutely oxygen deficient, and that produces the age pigment at an even higher rate.”
The Thyroid, 1996, Gary Null Radio Show

 

[theLaw]

I remember Ray saying that sometimes changing diet/environment isn’t enough. I think it was for those who are older, more lipofuscin? I need to find where he was talking about it.

I also wonder if someone’s mother was hypothyroid during pregnancy, if thyroid will always be necessary?

I think this was partially the impetus for Haidut starting Idealabs as the need for sups for change becomes more and more necessary.

Having said that, Peat has mentioned many times that CO2 might be the answer to these issues; the challenge is how to best increase/absorb it safety apart from moving to a higher altitude permanently.

Haidut posted this regarding his hair-loss:

I lost a lot of hair over the course of a very short period (maybe 6 months or so) around 2008/2009 when I was at the height of my Paleo days. Since they I regrew at least 50% of it, so I went from almost bald to having a "receding hairline" as the dermatologist I saw called it. The period of most intense hair loss coincided almost perfectly with the period of high cortisol/prolactin/estrogen measured on blood tests, which have since normalized. To me there is no doubt that these hormones cause hair loss, the only disconnect I see with Peat is to what degree this can be reversed. The only person I know of who lost all his hair in a typical MPB pattern and got it ALL back was a mountain climber I knew back in college. He went almost completely bald in his mid-twenties and went to live with a community in the Tian-Shen mountains. I saw him maybe 5 years later and his hair had come back completely. He told me he would never go back to the modern world and there are things he could "feel" in the air, "taste" in the food and "see" around us that he could never explain but were obvious to people who lived in the wild. He said even one of those "things" was enough to cause serious health issues over time. He studied Selye as well and said once the "stress syndrome" starts it can be stopped but not reversed in the modern world we live in. That world is engineered AND optimized for stress and he thought he needed a complete reset to recover. He did seem to recover his hair fully and it did look real (no surgery or fake implants). And he went back to the mountains and seems to not have any interest in coming back. Maybe it is the CO2, maybe it is the freedom he enjoys there. But the difference in how he looked, not just because of hair regrowth, was striking. I don't think I could pull off leaving the civilized world for good, but every once in a while I wonder if there is any point in doing a more extended "reset" like him. Peat keeps going to Mexico and cuts off the world completely for months. There must be a reason for that. He also said a few times that changing places/experiences in a dramatic fashion can change things for good for people who do not respond to anything else.

Haidut Email Advice Depository

 

[Wagner83]

I remember Ray saying that sometimes changing diet/environment isn’t enough.

I also wonder if someone’s mother was hypothyroid during pregnancy, if thyroid will always be necessary?

I think what he said still stand, you can benefit from thyroid and other protective substances, they are "tools in the box", but in the end if you don't take care of diet and environment then you'll be dependent on them (that is, if they help in the first place, as we see on this forums sometimes they don't). So diet and environment are necessary conditions to better health but may not be enough (or require such a change like the climber haidut mentioned in the mail above, most are not willing go that far). I do not know what importance he gives to epigenetics and genetics, ideally I would say he believes given the right conditions and maybe a boost the vast majority of organisms can heal, but that's just a wild guess.

Having said that, Peat has mentioned many times that CO2 might be the answer to these issues; the challenge is how to best increase/absorb it safety apart from moving to a higher altitude permanently.

Vos would agree, I wonder what he's up to, he hasn't posted in ages on the other forum, maybe he is swimming in the air now.

 

[theLaw]

Vos would agree, I wonder what he's up to, he hasn't posted in ages on the other forum, maybe he is swimming in the air now.

At some point it just becomes too stressful to deal with trolls on a regular basis. Kudos to Haidut for hanging in there.

Still too many members here who feel that they need to be the "hall monitor" for discussions, as seen on the VOS threads.

But here's his posts on the CO2 tank: Paging VOS- CO2 tank

 

[HDD]

I do not know what importance he gives to epigenetics and genetics, ideally I would say he believes given the right conditions and maybe a boost the vast majority of organisms can heal, but that's just a wild guess.

It seems that Ray Peat still uses some thyroid, progesterone, and DHEA even though he has perfected his diet over the years. I thought I heard him mention his mother was hypothyroid, but I am not sure. I know she used progesterone during her pregnancy with him.