1. Cocoa Butter - Organic & Fair Trade Certified
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. **NEW** BL11 - Orange, Red & Infrared Therapy Body Light
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Charcoal Soap - For Deep Cleansing
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Orange & Red Light Therapy Device - LGS1
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Organic Cocoa Powder
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Metabasoap - Handcrafted Soap
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Cascara Sagrada Powder From Farmalabor In Italy
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  8. **NEW Mini Body Light** MBL1 - Orange & Red Light Therapy Mini Body Light
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice

Ray Peat Email Advice Depository Discussion/Comment Thread

Discussion in 'Email Advice' started by j., Jan 14, 2013.

  1. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2016
    Messages:
    3,121
    Gender:
    Male
    His thread on diet is interesting, his diet is certainly peculiar, which is why I would be curious to know how he is doing, it's difficult for me to believe it's sustainable but he sounds like a smart guy.
    From what other people reported he doesn't use thyroid all the time, he uses it to combat the stress of winter, keep in mind he is 80 yo. You can't always control the environment either, sometimes ***t happens.
     
  2. theLaw

    theLaw Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,219
    Gender:
    Male
    I think he went through several very strict dietary phases to get to the point where he could experiment with large amounts of MCT oil as the base of his diet along with CO2. He claims that he emailed Peat about it, but that he didn't respond to that particular question.

    Also, I've noticed that there are some people who can change their diet very easily while others find it to be a serious challenge, so perhaps orthorexia is simply not a real issue for him.

    Personally, I find his threads some of the most useful on this forum.:D
     
  3. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2016
    Messages:
    3,121
    Gender:
    Male
    If you think about it, some people have rice as their main sources of carbohydrates (tyw), one has pepsi, and VoS has mct oil, all of these are pretty much void of nutrients. That may make one wonder if eating very nutritious foods all the time is essential for health, or if, as Ray said, energy maintains cellular health and selectivity.
     
  4. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2013
    Messages:
    7,423
    Gender:
    Female
    Thanks @HDD, that's an exceptionally helpful quote. It explains quite a bit in simple terms that anyone can understand. I'm pretty sure I'll always need thyroid at least in the winter time but that's ok considering I didn't find Peat's work until my mid 40's. I shudder to think how things might be otherwise.
     
  5. HDD

    HDD Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Messages:
    2,010
    Yes, me too, except I was in my 50’s. I’m in warm climate but at sea level.:(
     
  6. Tenacity

    Tenacity Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Messages:
    675
    Gender:
    Male
    People who eat primarily rice in their diet are at a high risk of suffering from beriberi. I think carbohydrates need to come alongside very good sources of thiamine to avoid issues.
     
  7. raypeatclips

    raypeatclips Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    2,532
    I have thought about this too. Peat has mentioned up to 50% of the diet as white sugar I believe (although this might have been when he was discussing the diabetes cure when those doctors gave patients loads of sugar to fix it.) I don't think it is really possible to get 100% nutritious foods in the diet, without being overly orthorexic about it. Whenever Peat mentions highly nutritious foods i.e liver and oysters, he says once a week, if not less frequently.


    Do they really though? I have seen this mentioned across the forums, but I don't buy it. Rice is the staple of carb of so many Asian countries, India, China, Japan, Thailand. Looking at these countries, especially China and India, I bet the majority of the world uses rice as their main carb source, compared to other sources. Beri beri would surely be absolutely rampant and widespread, if this was true?
     
  8. Tenacity

    Tenacity Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Messages:
    675
    Gender:
    Male
    From what I read in this WHO report on thiamine deficiency, white rice does not provide enough thiamine per carbohydrate ingested, and beriberi has been alleviated by eating less white rice and more foods higher in thiamine, or by eating brown rice or parboiled rice instead.

    Thiamine deficiency may be more common than you expect:

    "In Europe, North America and Australia, thiamine deficiency is common among alcoholics and usually manifests itself as the Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome but has also been reported in patients on restricted diets for obesity, those who receive total parenteral nutrition and in those who are on fad diets or whose intakes are high in carbohydrate and low in thiamine (Kawai et al, 1980; Anderson et al, 1985; Feldman, 1988). Little attention has been given to possible thiamine deficiency in infancy. Studies in Australia have revealed quite unexpected incidence of biochemical thiamine deficiency in pregnant mothers at term and in apparently healthy infants subsequent to the neonatal period. Thiamine deficiency was found in infants and their mothers coming from families who had a high incidence of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (Australian Health and Medical Research Council, 1978; Wood et al, 1980; Jeffrey et al, 1985). In active young adults, subclinical yet biochemical thiamine deficiency may be a cardiovascular and a psychological stress factor as seen both in Japan (Anderson et al,1985) and the USA (Lonsdale et al,1980). Symptoms reported in the patients in the USA were those of neurotic dysfunction that are frequently treated by sedatives and psychological counselling. Diet history revealed increased consumption of high carbohydrate foods such as sweetened drinks and products made from refined wheat flour for long periods of time. The symptoms in the patients improved following the administration of thiamine. Thiamine deficiency occurs sporadically in people who are socially isolated, suffer loss of appetite and self neglect. In these cases ‘mixed’ vitamin deficiency syndromes are more common and respond better to vitamin B-complex treatment (Carney, 1971). Multiple vitamin B deficiencies including thiamine, pyridoxine and cyanocobalamin can result in polyneuropathy of varying manifestation. In Cuba in late 1992 and early 1993 there was an outbreak of a B vitamin deficiency related polyneuropathy affecting 50 000 people. It was reported to be a combination of a nutritional problem associated with possibly a toxic substance (WHO Press Release, September 1993). Thiamine deficiency is also seen in association with certain diseases: dysentery, diarrhea, cancer, liver diseases, infections and hyperthyroidism."

    http://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/en/thiamine_in_emergencies_eng.pdf
     
  9. Dhair

    Dhair Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    868
    Gender:
    Male
    Most commercial brands of white rice (in the US) have added thiamine. Unfortunately, they also have added iron. I'm assuming the added B1 is because of this research.
     
  10. raypeatclips

    raypeatclips Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    2,532
    Thanks for the quote. The thing is, nowhere in that quote mentions rice. It mentions alcohols depleting effects, sugary drinks and refined wheat flour. This is on a forum of people that consume drastic amounts of sugary drinks. It also focuses Australia, Europe and America, with a mention of Japan half way through. Where are all these huge rice eating countries in these reports? India, China?

    Just reading through the PDF, thanks for that link. I doubt many people with these issues are doing "Peaty" things such as eating liver, seafood, orange juice, egg yolks, which probably allow for more rice to be eaten.
     
  11. Tenacity

    Tenacity Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Messages:
    675
    Gender:
    Male
    They talk about rice in the rest of the report.

    "Thiamine deficiency has been observed in pregnant women who have increased demands for thiamine. Rolfe and colleagues (1993) reported that it may be an unrecognized complication of pregnancy in urban areas in certain parts of Africa and Asia and be a cause of preventable maternal death. The potential for large outbreaks of thiamine deficiency exist in urban areas in West Africa where polished rice is the staple diet with many asymptomatic people probably having subnormal thiamine levels. In 1988, an outbreak of thiamine deficiency occurred in a rural area in The Gambia. At least 140 people, mainly young men, were affected and 22 died (Tang et al, 1989). In 1990–1991 38 patients with thiamine deficiency were seen in a hospital in The Gambia and 4 patients (10.5%) died (Rolfe et al, 1993). In areas where rice is the staple, cases have been reported each year in the rainy season when food supplies are lowest and there is intense agricultural activity with increased energy expenditure. There have also been reports of outbreaks in confined populations in The Gambia: in prisons, psychiatric units, among communally-fed policemen, as well as amongst migrant workers in Ethiopia (Marsden et al, 1967; Rolfe et al, 1993)."

    "The great outbreaks of thiamine deficiency in South-East Asia at the beginning of this century followed the large scale production of milled rice and its large scale distribution. The availability of milled rice as a cheap and popular food in urban areas was also a factor of importance for the occurrence of thiamine deficiency in those areas. The requirement of thiamine is increased when carbohydrates are taken in large amounts and is raised during periods of increased metabolism, for example, fever, muscular activity, hyperthyroidism and also during pregnancy and lactation. A diet based on polished rice is high in carbohydrates which augments the thiamine requirement and is compounded by a low thiamine content."

    This information makes me wonder about my own autonomic dysfunction, and the fact that it occurred after a little while of doing a very low fat diet using honey and dates as the staple energy source.
     
  12. raypeatclips

    raypeatclips Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    2,532
    @Tenacity This is what I'm talking about. When the PDF provides a "diet" of someone that has developed thiamine deficiency... just look at it. That isn't a diet at all. Someone eating that diet would have deficiencies of almost everything. Simply quoting on the forum "rice causes beri beri" is completely unnecessary and it only occurs when people are literally eating rice and barely anything else. A "normal" person probably eats around what? 150g rice a day? Alongside a normal diet, i.e meat, vegetables, fruits, cheese, seafood, liver, eggs, this really isn't something to be concerned about.


    [​IMG]
     
  13. Tenacity

    Tenacity Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Messages:
    675
    Gender:
    Male
    I said 'people who primarily eat rice'. But I agree that a refugee's ration isn't anything to draw conclusions from. I was more interested in typical cases of thiamine deficiency among the general population. Wagner mentioned rice in the context of foods that provide a lot of energy but little nutrition.
     
  14. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2016
    Messages:
    3,121
    Gender:
    Male
    If you focus on tubers and fruits then you get better "nutrition" (as in nutrients quantity). I've seen him say white sugar is just to be used acutely as anti-stress method but otherwise I doubt he drinks any besides one coke.
    I thought this was caused by eating blueberries, raspberries and strawberries while listening to "Music Play" at the same time ?
     
  15. raypeatclips

    raypeatclips Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    2,532
    It is very specific though. I bet if you eat any single thing as a primary source of food you would run into problems.
     
  16. raypeatclips

    raypeatclips Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Messages:
    2,532
    It is probably just people on here that pound white sugar in the name of Peat and run into problems, I also doubt he has white sugar every single day.
     
  17. Tenacity

    Tenacity Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Messages:
    675
    Gender:
    Male
    I take it to mean that if you eat a high-carb diet, you better be ensuring you get enough thiamine somehow.
     
  18. haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,217
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Thanks, great exchange. This last part struck a powerful note that I also alluded to a few times in the past:
    If you live in a Western city, every time you ingest a commercial food or drink, or get shrunk into sweaty obedient mess by your psychopathic boss, or get infuriated by yet another email/text that you have been charged a "convenience" fee and your bank account is overdrawn, or get signed up for various "benefits" against your will (Wells Fargo anyone?) or (God forbid) you pop a "harmless" PPI, BP or SSRI drug you get a powerful dose of aging/disease. Unless that changes, which for most people is not likely, then some form of corrective action like supplements, special diet, aspirin, anti-serotonin, etc is needed just to slow down the deterioration.
     
  19. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2016
    Messages:
    3,121
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes I guess the story of the climber who regrew his hair is fantastic in that regard. To add a pinch of salt to this concept that environment and diet are the one and only factors in health, first different individuals resist much less or much more to all the crap, regardless of their own past, second, I personnally find that a similar restricted diet can make me feel fanstastic for a few days (great digestion etc..) and like crap an other day (slowed digestion, loose stools, dark circle under the eyes, caveat: need more experiment on a longer timeframe). For the most part I'm doing a lot better but when environment doesn't deteriorate and diet doesn't change it would be nice to get consistent results. Did you ever notice that the body for reasons besides environment and diet (basically, out of the blue) may not function optimally on certain occasions?
     
  20. Dhair

    Dhair Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    868
    Gender:
    Male
    This is awfully depressing and defeatist.
    Maybe this is true for people already locked into the system (kids, marriage, mortgage, etc) but if you are in a position where you can make some money in an environment where you have even one or two supportive people in your life, you could feasibly save up enough in a relatively short period of time to explore limitless options for treatment or gain a better understand of where your environmental deficits lie. It does NOT have to be nearly as difficult as many people on this forum make it out to be, and I'm speaking as someone who is only just beginning to make marginal progress in my health...
     
Loading...