Progesterone In Men

[marsaday]

I have a useful and positive update on my progesterone use.

I have been using about 6mcg per day and now have the progestE product, so use 2 drops per day.

I was blood tested last week and two really important changes have taken place. I was taking the progesterone for 4 weeks before the latest blood test.

1) Testosterone has increased by 25% !! My testosterone level in Jan 2015 was 18 nmol/l. 3 months later it is 22.4 nmol/l (7.6-31)

2) My TSH has become elevated from totally suppressed and this has been like this for 8 years ! It is now 0.6, so i am actually in range. I take thyroid meds, but they seem to totally suppress the TSH. So what must be happening is that the T3 is being used more because of the prog. My Ft4 is 18.5 and was the same in January, but the TSH was suppressed then. I am very happy about this one and the reason why i tried the prog in the first place.

So a low dose of prog is boosting my testosterone and improving thyroid function. RESULT

 

[schultz]

I have a useful and positive update on my progesterone use.

I have been using about 6mcg per day and now have the progestE product, so use 2 drops per day.

I was blood tested last week and two really important changes have taken place. I was taking the progesterone for 4 weeks before the latest blood test.

1) Testosterone has increased by 25% !! My testosterone level in Jan 2015 was 18 nmol/l. 3 months later it is 22.4 nmol/l (7.6-31)

2) My TSH has become elevated from totally suppressed and this has been like this for 8 years ! It is now 0.6, so i am actually in range. I take thyroid meds, but they seem to totally suppress the TSH. So what must be happening is that the T3 is being used more because of the prog. My Ft4 is 18.5 and was the same in January, but the TSH was suppressed then. I am very happy about this one and the reason why i tried the prog in the first place.

So a low dose of prog is boosting my testosterone and improving thyroid function. RESULT

Thanks for posting your results!

 

[aquaman]

I am taking a cream which dispenses 20mcg in a shot, so am trying to take half a shot every 2 days. So hopefully getting 5mcg per day approx.

McG? Micrograms?

Or do you mean milligrams?

Progest e contains around 3mg per drop.

 

[natedawggh]

Hello, I've found very few information on the topic, and the usual things I read were that progesterone should be used in small doses, and pregnenolone is preferable in men, and many other things. But since Peat said pregnenolone hasn't the powerful effects of progesterone, can some males benefit from progesterone if their estrogen are very high? If I take 1 drop of progest-E nothing happens, maybe I need more. Some people benefit from taking more - in the Peat Exchanges on Peatarian, Ray Peat said a person took 1000mg daily (!). What do you think about it? When males should really think about taking it, and eventually in higher doses? What if low testosterone - temporarily - is nothing compared to their symptoms, like helplessness, excitotoxicity, etc. that are really worse?

Thanks

Progesterone at first increased my libido but then it did the opposite. Long term use pretty much wipes out testosterone, but short term can increase it. So if you're still young or youngish you will lose it and it's benefits if you take it for too long or at too high of doses. Pregnenolne and Zinc are better routes (as well as using protein/amino acids like glycine).

That being said, Progesterone still has very powerful metabolic aids. Not meaning it will help you lose weight, because it would probably make you gain weight, but it raised my average body temperatures from 96 to 99 pretty quickly over a period of two months. I would say to only use it if health conditions are dire and you cannot find relief otherwise. If you do use it, the reduction is not at all permanent and your testosterone will come back later, especially if your thyroid health is supported.

 

[marsaday]

Pregnenalone was positive for me at the start and then it had a habit of closing down my system, so this was no good for me.

I will just have to see how i get on with the prog. I have had a thyroid problem for 8 yrs and have felt much better on thyroid hormones, but finding full recovery has been difficult. The prog has really helped with a lot of areas. It is helping me make more cortisol i think. I am not that bothered about the testosterone as i have not really had a problem with it. It came up with thyroid hormone use, but plateaued at 18 nmol/l. The prog has pushed it higher.

I am in my 40's and will have another blood test later this yr, but for now i will keep doing what i am doing.

Maybe the prog will start to act negatively, but i hope i will pick that up based on how i feel. Time will tell.

Yes the amount taken per day is 2 drops, so that is 6mg.

 

[YuraCZ]

I was on 40 mg progesterone cream for 14 days. Then 80mg for 7 days and now I'm taking 160mg every day. It burns that subcutaneous Fibrocystic/estrogen/pufa fat in chest gluteus legs area like crazy. Really great detox. I was so long in crazy high estrogen/stress state due to stupid steroid abuse and on top of all of that severe hypothyroid since maybe 14 yo(hashimoto due to gluten..) So now I try recover especially liver, thyroid and totaly ****88 up cardiovascular system(leaky blood vessels, spider veins, already removed varicouse vein..)

 

[docall18]

I have a useful and positive update on my progesterone use.

I have been using about 6mcg per day and now have the progestE product, so use 2 drops per day.

I was blood tested last week and two really important changes have taken place. I was taking the progesterone for 4 weeks before the latest blood test.

1) Testosterone has increased by 25% !! My testosterone level in Jan 2015 was 18 nmol/l. 3 months later it is 22.4 nmol/l (7.6-31)

2) My TSH has become elevated from totally suppressed and this has been like this for 8 years ! It is now 0.6, so i am actually in range. I take thyroid meds, but they seem to totally suppress the TSH. So what must be happening is that the T3 is being used more because of the prog. My Ft4 is 18.5 and was the same in January, but the TSH was suppressed then. I am very happy about this one and the reason why i tried the prog in the first place.

So a low dose of prog is boosting my testosterone and improving thyroid function. RESULT

Yes i noticed the same time with progesterone raising my TSH. This happened in me because I had low cortisol. The progesterone brought my cortisol back up and allowed me to use the thyroid hormone.

 

[docall18]

I have been on tiny doses of progesterone for the last couple of months and it was affecting my libido badly.

I started using seligiline 2 weeks ago to see if it would reduce prolactin and raise dopamine to help the low libido sides from prog.

About 6 days ago I added 50mg of P5P vitamin b6. My libido immediatly improved. For the last 5 nights I have had nite wood. I havent had any since starting prog. My testicles are also no longer shrunken.

However the high dopamine has caused bad insomnia for the last few days. So i have stopped the b6 for now and will restart later at maybe 5-10mg/day.

So the progesterone seems to have caused increased prolactin. This is the same as bodybuilders report when they take Deca or other progesterin steroids.

 

[YuraCZ]

I have been on tiny doses of progesterone for the last couple of months and it was affecting my libido badly.

I started using seligiline 2 weeks ago to see if it would reduce prolactin and raise dopamine to help the low libido sides from prog.

About 6 days ago I added 50mg of P5P vitamin b6. My libido immediatly improved. For the last 5 nights I have had nite wood. I havent had any since starting prog. My testicles are also no longer shrunken.

However the high dopamine has caused bad insomnia for the last few days. So i have stopped the b6 for now and will restart later at maybe 5-10mg/day.

So the progesterone seems to have caused increased prolactin. This is the same as bodybuilders report when they take Deca or other progesterin steroids.

I think that's a really bad idea start with low doses of progesteron if you have estrogen issues..
http://www.progesteronetherapy.com/prog ... z3YFiFCkFQ
I agree with Wray in this 100%. You need bigger doses to overcome estrogen dominance and after that when your estrogen overload is gone you can take small maintenance doses..

 

[docall18]

I think that's a really bad idea start with low doses of progesteron if you have estrogen issues..
http://www.progesteronetherapy.com/prog ... z3YFiFCkFQ
I agree with Wray in this 100%. You need bigger doses to overcome estrogen dominance and after that when your estrogen overload is gone you can take small maintenance doses..

Are u on Testosterone replacement? I have every heard that higher dose progesterone can be tolerated by men on TRT.

I did use a big dose initially but felt depressed/feminised, however I didnt have high estrogen. Wray suggestions are more for women, most men got penile shrinkage and depressed mood from larger prog doses.

 

[YuraCZ]

I was low in progesterone, testosterone and due to stupid steroid abuse high in estrogen in the tissue...

 

[Steffi]

If I take it for a few days (1-2 drops at night) my libido goes away - and also erections are rare. It takes several days to recover. However, I do take sometimes a drop or two before bed if I feel really shitty. Sleep feels a lot more restorative after such a dose and the next day starts out a lot better.

And yes, I have noticed a connection with thyroid as someone with hypo. I used to feel hyper the next day after taking some in the evening.

 

[docall18]

If I take it for a few days (1-2 drops at night) my libido goes away - and also erections are rare. It takes several days to recover. However, I do take sometimes a drop or two before bed if I feel really s****y. Sleep feels a lot more restorative after such a dose and the next day starts out a lot better.

And yes, I have noticed a connection with thyroid as someone with hypo. I used to feel hyper the next day after taking some in the evening.

Try taking P5P vitamin b6 with the progesterone.

It is amazing for me. Cured the low libido effect on me after a couple of days.

I took the b6 away from any other b suppl. 50mg for two or three days and then reduced it to 5mg per day.

 

[Kai@theCellLevel]

I've read accounts that progesterone can boost thyroid function. Any males here noticed any such affect? I guess it's a given that the consensus here is that taking it won't work or is a bad idea without also supplementing thyroid; but thought I'd ask if any males out there have used a small dose of progesterone without thyroid supplementation and achieved a positive affect.

I haven't wanted to test the waters of trying to order thyroid into Canada again, but I have been experimenting with progest-E alone (24 y/o male) and I definitely agree with the people who say it puts them in a hyperthyroid state and lowers the libido. I'd be interested in combining thyroid with prog.

 

[haidut]

Too many posts in this thread to address them one by one so I will try to answer in one post.

1. Progesterone and libido - it varies from person to person and it is dose dependent. In some people with high testosterone progesterone may actually lowers it, as well as DHT. I don't think that would change much as the human studies show no more than 10% decrease in T in people with T levels in the upper 25% of the range. In people with low testosterone it may actually increase it since it is aromatase inhibitor and estrogen antagonist. One study showed 30% boost in T in men with low testosterone after taking 200mg micronized progesterone orally for a month. I also posted an animal study showing increases in both T and DHT from human equivalent oral dose of 600mg. Finally, in the people that feel libido waning on progesterone - you can take 5mg DHEA with it and this resolve the issue. Progesterone stimulates the steroid cascade and DHEA will convert further down the pathways. Since progesterone will block/inhibit the estrogen pathways, most of the DHEA will end up as T and DHT. Try it out and see for yourselves, but make sure you do blood work too just to make sure.
Note: If you take DHEA keep the dose low. No more than 5mg - 10mg per day in divided doses. I just posted a study showing that this the optimal dose and anything higher will cause liver enlargement and decrease oxidative metabolism in brain and liver.

2. Progesterone and muscles - it is related to the above post. Progesterone in itself will not catabolize muscles and even if it does lower T, muscles will not shrink unless T drops really low into the deficiency ranges. So, again supplementing as little as 5mg DHEA daily together with the progesterone dosage will restore muscle tone.

3. Progesterone and cortisol - progesterone powerfully lowers cortisol!!! Please stop saying that it increases it unless you have blood work to prove it. There is no such thing as "cortisol steal" and whoever started this notion does not understand biochemistry in living organisms. I just posted some threads and studies showing that as little as 100mg pregnenolone, and as little as 80mg progesterone will lower cortisol and ACTH by about 60%. That is one of the reasons behind the calming and sedating effects of progesterons. The effects is similar to the sleepiness that occur after eating a good meal since that lowers the stress hormones. Progesterone does the same and since it is a potent GABA agonist (its metabolite allopregnanolone is the most potent GABA agonist known) it will sedate you in higher doses.

4. Progesterone and thyroid - progesterone lowers TSH, stimulates production of T4 and increases conversion of T4 into T3. It is a very good mimetic of the actual thyroid hormones in terms of effects on thermogenesis and oxidative metabolism. If you are taking large doses of progesterone I'd actually take lower doses of thyroid since the two combined may give you heart palpitations from too much stimulation of metabolism that glycogen stores cannot handle.

Keep in mind that the above is not just my opinion but if based on human studies. So, if anybody thinks progesterone is affecting them negatively please get some blood tests so we can confirm what's happening rather than blame progesterone on it. In 90% of the cases progesterone is helping, and it is helping a lot.

 

[docall18]

3. Progesterone and cortisol - progesterone powerfully lowers cortisol!!! Please stop saying that it increases it unless you have blood work to prove it. There is no such thing as "cortisol steal" and whoever started this notion does not understand biochemistry in living organisms. I just posted some threads and studies showing that as little as 100mg pregnenolone, and as little as 80mg progesterone will lower cortisol and ACTH by about 60%. That is one of the reasons behind the calming and sedating effects of progesterons. The effects is similar to the sleepiness that occur after eating a good meal since that lowers the stress hormones. Progesterone does the same and since it is a potent GABA agonist (its metabolite allopregnanolone is the most potent GABA agonist known) it will sedate you in higher doses.

This is my experience: Many people on this forum including myself have low adrenal function. This is caused by hypothalamic–pituitary–adrenal axis dysfunction, wrongly called Adrenal Fatigue. Periods of high stress causing high cortisol, results in reduced HPA output. This is similar to the HPTA dysfunction bodybuilders get from high testosterone levels.

If you have low Dhea,Preg&Prog and low or normal cortisol you most likely have HPA dysfunction. Basically the HPA setpoint is reduced. Hypothalamic–pituitary dysfunction doesnt appear curable in people with 'adrenal fatigue' or in bodybuilders.
Peats theories on supplements, nutrition etc are good, but the reason many still dont feel 100% after thyroid, diet etc is optimised is due to HPA hypofunction.

There are rafts of 'adrenal fatigue' people with low cortisol/preg/prog/acth etc labs. The fact progesterone helps is not from lowering cortisol further.

Cortisol is synthesised from progesterone so if you are low it will create cortisol. If you have high or normal cortisol it will reduce cortisol as it activates many cortisol receptors and possibly backfills to Dhea which will reduce cortisol. I have low saliva cortisol labs. Both hydrocortisone and progesterone give me identical positive results.

Many do well on preg& Dhea initially however it eventually ramps up estrogen even at low doses. Pregnenolone & Dhea cause increased testosterone. Testosterone and cortisol are in a balance. Preg & Dhea increase testosterone however with low cortisol you body ramps up its conversion to estrogen to restore the homoeostasis.

A much better explaination is available in the link below:
https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=...64CADQ&usg=AFQjCNEnvPoLwQYieQy_SVIo41yLA1AKOg

Rgds, D

 

[docall18]

Too many posts in this thread to address them one by one so I will try to answer in one post.


4. Progesterone and thyroid - progesterone lowers TSH, stimulates production of T4 and increases conversion of T4 into T3. It is a very good mimetic of the actual thyroid hormones in terms of effects on thermogenesis and oxidative metabolism. If you are taking large doses of progesterone I'd actually take lower doses of thyroid since the two combined may give you heart palpitations from too much stimulation of metabolism that glycogen stores cannot handle.

I believe progesterone will increase TSH in people with low cortisol. On low dose dessicated thyroid my TSH is completely suppressed. When progesterone is added my TSH is not completely suppressed even at higher doses of thyroid.

The reason for this is that cortisol is required for the use of thyroid hormones. Without the extra cortisol from progesterone the thyroid hormones are floating around unused, suppressing TSH.

 

[haidut]

3. Progesterone and cortisol - progesterone powerfully lowers cortisol!!! Please stop saying that it increases it unless you have blood work to prove it. There is no such thing as "cortisol steal" and whoever started this notion does not understand biochemistry in living organisms. I just posted some threads and studies showing that as little as 100mg pregnenolone, and as little as 80mg progesterone will lower cortisol and ACTH by about 60%. That is one of the reasons behind the calming and sedating effects of progesterons. The effects is similar to the sleepiness that occur after eating a good meal since that lowers the stress hormones. Progesterone does the same and since it is a potent GABA agonist (its metabolite allopregnanolone is the most potent GABA agonist known) it will sedate you in higher doses.

This is my experience: Many people on this forum including myself have low adrenal function. This is caused by hypothalamic–pituitary–adrenal axis dysfunction, wrongly called Adrenal Fatigue. Periods of high stress causing high cortisol, results in reduced HPA output. This is similar to the HPTA dysfunction bodybuilders get from high testosterone levels.

If you have low Dhea,Preg&Prog and low or normal cortisol you most likely have HPA dysfunction. Basically the HPA setpoint is reduced. Hypothalamic–pituitary dysfunction doesnt appear curable in people with 'adrenal fatigue' or in bodybuilders.
Peats theories on supplements, nutrition etc are good, but the reason many still dont feel 100% after thyroid, diet etc is optimised is due to HPA hypofunction.

There are rafts of 'adrenal fatigue' people with low cortisol/preg/prog/acth etc labs. The fact progesterone helps is not from lowering cortisol further.

Cortisol is synthesised from progesterone so if you are low it will create cortisol. If you have high or normal cortisol it will reduce cortisol as it activates many cortisol receptors and possibly backfills to Dhea which will reduce cortisol. I have low saliva cortisol labs. Both hydrocortisone and progesterone give me identical positive results.

Many do well on preg& Dhea initially however it eventually ramps up estrogen even at low doses. Pregnenolone & Dhea cause increased testosterone. Testosterone and cortisol are in a balance. Preg & Dhea increase testosterone however with low cortisol you body ramps up its conversion to estrogen to restore the homoeostasis.

A much better explaination is available in the link below:
https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=...64CADQ&usg=AFQjCNEnvPoLwQYieQy_SVIo41yLA1AKOg

Rgds, D

Noted. However, until I see blood tests from people with low cortisol taking progesterone and resulting in increased cortisol I am not convinced progesterone is a cortisol booster. In a normal state you have no reason to produce much cortisol unless there is some type of inflammation going on. The people with low cortisol, DHEA, etc having HPA dysfunction have probably run on stress hormones too high. So, when they experience relief from progesterone it's probably not b/c it is boosting their cortisol but b/c it is boosting their DHEA, improving thyroid function AND preventing the DHEA from converting into estrogen. You can live perfectly fine without adrenal glands as long as you supplement progesterone. Studies with people without adrenal glands showed that their levels of cortisol are close to zero, so progesterone is not converting into cortisol. It can fill in for the anti-inflammatory role of cortisol and as such there is probably no reason to produce much cortisol in those people. Whatever the reason, my points are two:

1. Withot blood tests I am not convinced that progesterone increases cortisol, even in people with adrenal fatigue or HPA dysfunction. It's probably simply improving thyroid and DHEA, which will make many people feel better.

2. People without adrenals can function perfectly normally as long as they supplement porgesterone and they continue to have very low levels of cortisol. This suggests that progesterone is not converting into cortisol even in those extreme cases and fills in for many of the cortisol roles without being catabolic.

So, anybody willing to do a quick experiment with http://www.directlabs.com and supplementing some progesterone? Preferably people with "adrenal fatigue" or HPA dysfunction please.
The reason I am mentioning this is that I actually saw blood results from about 20 people with adrenal fatigue before and after 1 month 200mg oral progesterone. Their cortisol stayed low, T3 increased and TSH went down, DHEA-S went down and DHEA increased. So, if anybody wants to convince themselves about how porgesterone affects cortisol levels, thyroid and other hormones get some Progest-E and you for $50 you can find out what's going on in your case.
Just my 2c.

 

[haidut]

Too many posts in this thread to address them one by one so I will try to answer in one post.


4. Progesterone and thyroid - progesterone lowers TSH, stimulates production of T4 and increases conversion of T4 into T3. It is a very good mimetic of the actual thyroid hormones in terms of effects on thermogenesis and oxidative metabolism. If you are taking large doses of progesterone I'd actually take lower doses of thyroid since the two combined may give you heart palpitations from too much stimulation of metabolism that glycogen stores cannot handle.

I believe progesterone will increase TSH in people with low cortisol. On low dose dessicated thyroid my TSH is completely suppressed. When progesterone is added my TSH is not completely suppressed even at higher doses of thyroid.

The reason for this is that cortisol is required for the use of thyroid hormones. Without the extra cortisol from progesterone the thyroid hormones are floating around unused, suppressing TSH.

Well, not according to these studies and results I have seen.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24362948

"...There was also a significant positive correlation between progesterone and D2 expression in the ovarectomized group. The results of the present study hypothesize that progesterone withdrawal may underlie the decrement in D2 expression, with consequent reduction in the peripheral conversion of T4 into T3 leading to a hypothyroid state."

The study above is good b/c it also shows that removing ovaries (i.e. menopause) results in high increase of estrogen/progesterone raio, contrary to what the medical profession claims. It also says that this decline in progesterone causes hypothyroidism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23252963
"...RESULTS:

Women with thyroid data (69 of 133 in original trial) were randomized to progesterone (n = 39) or placebo (n = 30)-baseline thyroid values were normal. There were no VMS-thyroid interactions-VMS Score (number × intensity) did not correlate with TSH, FreeT3 or FreeT4 (Spearman's rank correlations: -0.03 to -0.19, respectively; all P > 0.15). At 12 weeks on progesterone, TSH levels tended to be lower (1.7 mU) than on placebo (2.2), P = 0.06; FreeT4 levels were higher (16.4 pmol/l) than on placebo (15.3), P = 0.02. FreeT3 was unchanged throughout. Analysis of covariance showed a significant increase in FreeT4 on progesterone (+2.5 pmol/l; 1.9-3.0) vs on placebo (+1.7; 1.1-2.4) with 95% CI of difference = 0.8 pmol/l [0.0, 1.6], P = 0.04."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21289261
"...RESULTS:

During the first night (no blood sampling), sleep was similar in both conditions. Under placebo, blood sampling procedure was associated with marked sleep disturbances, which were considerably reduced under progesterone treatment: mean duration of wake after sleep onset was 53% lower, slow-wave sleep duration almost 50% higher, and total slow-wave activity (reflecting duration and intensity of deep sleep) almost 45% higher under progesterone than under placebo (P ≤ 0.05). Nocturnal GH secretion was increased, and evening and nocturnal TSH levels were decreased under progesterone (P ≤ 0.05)."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19222493
"...CONCLUSION:

The present data indicate that in normally cycling young women, daytime GH and PRL secretions are increased in luteal phase. These data also suggest that endogenous progesterone could play a modulation role on pituitary hormone secretion, stimulating GH and PRL release and enhancing the inhibitory action of sleep on TSH secretion."

Finally, can you please explain how cortisol is necessary for thyroid hormones to work? What is the mechanism preventing thyroid hormones from diffusing into the cell in the absence of cortisol?

 

[docall18]

Ah I said this is only from my own experience. I was on dessicated thyroid and HC for a few years. Without HC I could not tolerate much thyroid. Small amounts would cause high adrenaline symptoms. With the HC I was able to tolerate larger thyroid doses.
The accepted wisdom rightly or wrongly of many doctors and thyroid sites is that the body needs cortisol to utilise the thyroid hormone. I found this to be correct in practise.