Oral Progesterone Increases Testosterone And DHT

[gbolduev]

No time to argue here. But you are wrong. MPA is a strong progesterone receptor agonist, that is how it inhibits 3 beta. And as an androgen receptor agonist it inhibits 3a hsd same as nandrolone , any dht , deca. That is why you use testosterone on a course of DECA. to inhibit 3 beta so progesterone receptors dont get downregulated afterwards. And if you don't- you get deca d.ick, which is basically PFS , since finasteride is a progestin that acts the same as depo provera.

Also progestins act both ways on the receptors depending on the current progesterone levels and potassium levels before the usage. That is why they are multiple cases of PFS or depo proveras crashes with different ways out. That is why some people are helped by one thing and some people are screwed by the same method.

Progesterone will effect 3 beta hsd and thyroid hormones depending on the current potassium level. So it is not pro thyroid in all cases. Only in those lacking cortisol from low potassium in the cell. And as potassium rises in the cell, thyroid hormones will be lowered unless you inject yourself with insulin and adrenaline.

Most hormones will act in more ways than one under different body chemistries.

In 20 days progesterone at 20mg will lower your testosterone to VERY LOW. I tested it many times, and tested in different variations.

Georgi, these studies are screwing with your head. They are all wrong and out of context. You cant learn biochemistry based on studies. They are all out of context. Hormones will act completely different under different conditions. Same as minerals.

Progesterone is pro hair? LOL sure . Hairloss is 2 types. one is from AGA with low potassium and high progesterone and DHT sensitivity. and second type is protein wasting hairloss, high potassium, low progesterone high oxidation.( Danny Roddy case - not androgenic at all.)

Try to give progesterone to type 2. and that person will lose all his hair within a month. Try to give it to type one and that person will gain hair.

Same with t3. try to give t3 to person with high potassium -- HUGE hairloss will come. Same things with iodine.

There is no hormones pro something. they all work in certain context.

Good luck. I can't post anymore. I hope you are well.

 

[haidut]

No time to argue here. But you are wrong. MPA is a strong progesterone receptor agonist, that is how it inhibits 3 beta. And as an androgen receptor agonist it inhibits 3a hsd same as nandrolone , any dht , deca. That is why you use testosterone on a course of DECA. to inhibit 3 beta so progesterone receptors dont get downregulated afterwards. And if you don't- you get deca d.ick, which is basically PFS , since finasteride is a progestin that acts the same as depo provera.

Also progestins act both ways on the receptors depending on the current progesterone levels and potassium levels before the usage. That is why they are multiple cases of PFS or depo proveras crashes with different ways out. That is why some people are helped by one thing and some people are screwed by the same method.

Progesterone will effect 3 beta hsd and thyroid hormones depending on the current potassium level. So it is not pro thyroid in all cases. Only in those lacking cortisol from low potassium in the cell. And as potassium rises in the cell, thyroid hormones will be lowered unless you inject yourself with insulin and adrenaline.

Most hormones will act in more ways than one under different body chemistries.

In 20 days progesterone at 20mg will lower your testosterone to VERY LOW. I tested it many times, and tested in different variations.

Georgi, these studies are screwing with your head. They are all wrong and out of context. You cant learn biochemistry based on studies. They are all out of context. Hormones will act completely different under different conditions. Same as minerals.

Progesterone is pro hair? LOL sure . Hairloss is 2 types. one is from AGA with low potassium and high progesterone and DHT sensitivity. and second type is protein wasting hairloss, high potassium, low progesterone high oxidation.( Danny Roddy case - not androgenic at all.)

Try to give progesterone to type 2. and that person will lose all his hair within a month. Try to give it to type one and that person will gain hair.

Same with t3. try to give t3 to person with high potassium -- HUGE hairloss will come. Same things with iodine.

There is no hormones pro something. they all work in certain context.

Good luck. I can't post anymore. I hope you are well.

OK, no arguing and welsome back after a long hiatus :)
You are right about hormones acting in various ways depending on cell status. But I still maintain that androgens downregulate 3b-HSD. There are even synthetic testosterone derivatives being developed to be used as anti-androgens.
Regulation of 3β-Hydroxysteroid Dehydrogenase/Δ5-Δ4 Isomerase: A Review
"...Studies have suggested that androgens can inhibit androgen production by the testes and that this repression can occur at the level of 3β-HSD regulation [49]. Rats treated with hCG displayed an increase in 3β-HSD activity, but R1881 (an androgen agonist) decreased hCG induction [of 3β-HSD], whereas cyproterone acetate (an androgen antagonist) increased activity [50]. Similarly, dexamethasone (a glucocorticoid agonist) addition reduced both basal and cAMP stimulatory effects on 3β-HSD mRNA, but not cytochrome P450c17 activity in mouse Leydig cells [51]."

This is a classic negative feedback mechanism and commonly used in practice to treat women with hyperandrogenism - i.e they sometimes get injected with DHT or another strong androgen to downregulate 3b-HSD and this reduces synthesis of androstenedione and T. This is not my opinion - it is standard clinical practice and has been in place for more than 50 years.


Btw, nandrolone and testosterone both inhibit 3b-HSD.

Amelioration of nandrolone decanoate-induced testicular and sperm toxicity in rats by taurine: effects on steroidogenesis, redox and inflammatory c... - PubMed - NCBI
"...To achieve this aim, male Wistar rats were randomly distributed into four groups and administered either vehicle, nandrolone decanoate (10mg/kg/week, I.M.), taurine (100mg/kg/day, p.o.) or combination of taurine and nandrolone decanoate, for 8 successive weeks. Results of the present study showed that taurine reversed nandrolone decanoate-induced perturbations in sperm characteristics, normalized serum testosterone level, and restored the activities of the key steroidogenic enzymes; 3β-HSD, and 17β-HSD."

Evidence that testosterone regulates Leydig cell 3 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase-isomerase activity by a trans-acting factor distal to the andr... - PubMed - NCBI
"...To determine whether the strain-related difference in sensitivity to testosterone was mediated by a difference in the androgen receptor protein, Leydig cells from reciprocal F1 hybrid lines of mice were cultured in the presence or absence of testosterone. Testosterone treatment inhibited 3 beta HSD activity in both F1 lines to the same extent as observed for Leydig cells from C57BL/6J mice."


You may not like studies, but they are useful (when they are not produced by pharma goons). And I do not rely on studies exclusively. People send me their lab results all the time. A dose of 10mg-20mg progesterone (even when taken on its own) raised their T, not lowered it. Could be due to progesterone's inhibition of aromatase, or it being a precursor to androgens. Not sure, but their T did rise.
Steroids effects both depend on cell mineral status AND affect it as well. Not sure why you think everything is driven by the mineral balance of the cell. Most of the evidence points to cell reaction to steroids being affected primarily by things like ATP, NAD/NADH ratio, and cytochrome C activity. When ATP level inside the cell is high and also enough CO2 is being produced, potassium (adsorbed on cellular proteins) and magnesium (magnesium exists mostly as Mg-ATP complex) are inside the cell and sodium/calcium outside the cell. In low-energy or stressed conditions, the reverse happens - high blood potassium and magnesium, and high intracellular sodium/calcium. This is all driven by thyroid and activity of Krebs cycle and electron transport chain. So, the concentrations of the electrolytes and other minerals like zinc and copper also depends on the cell energetic status. It's a bit of the chicken and egg problem, but I stand on the side of the energetic balance being the primordial force that kicks things in to motion and then a feedback cycle forms.

Anyways, glad you are back. I am sure we will discuss more in the future.

 

[Braveheart]

love a good discussion...

 

[firebreather]

I picked up some progesterone gel caps (2oomg each) and have been taking 400mg each day.

I have never experienced such an effect from anything. I can't say that I noticed any difference in libido or anabolic affects but within 30 minutes of taking the progesterone I feel buzzed, like I've had a couple beers. It seems to last for about 3 hours.

 

[johnwester130]

I picked up some progesterone gel caps (2oomg each) and have been taking 400mg each day.

I have never experienced such an effect from anything. I can't say that I noticed any difference in libido or anabolic affects but within 30 minutes of taking the progesterone I feel buzzed, like I've had a couple beers. It seems to last for about 3 hours.

interesting

where from

 

[Frankdee20]

So how much Progesterone can a man take without antagonistic effects on androgens? My T is only 460

 

[Frankdee20]

Oh look, I have a vagina coming in

 

[firebreather]

interesting

where from

Just messaged you

 

[firebreather]

@haidut interested to hear your opinion on this:

I picked up some progesterone gel caps (2oomg each) and have been taking 400mg each day.

I have never experienced such an effect from anything. I can't say that I noticed any difference in libido or anabolic affects but within 30 minutes of taking the progesterone I feel buzzed, like I've had a couple beers. It seems to last for about 3 hours.

 

[firebreather]

Well the results are in for me and my testosterone was the lowest it's ever been after taking 400mg of progesterone a day for 5 days. 277 is what my total testosterone was. That's what I get for dumping $65 bucks on so progesterone

 

[Frankdee20]

Ouch ! What was it prior to Progesterone ? 400 mg of Progesterone seems ridiculously high.

 

[bdawg]

Well the results are in for me and my testosterone was the lowest it's ever been after taking 400mg of progesterone a day for 5 days. 277 is what my total testosterone was. That's what I get for dumping $65 bucks on so progesterone

damn....

 

[firebreather]

Ouch ! What was it prior to Progesterone ? 400 mg of Progesterone seems ridiculously high.

I've felt with low test over the past several yrs but I feel like it has been coming up since I quit paleo about 3 yrs ago. Last time I had it checked was a year ago and it was just over 500

 

[haidut]

@haidut interested to hear your opinion on this:

I picked up some progesterone gel caps (2oomg each) and have been taking 400mg each day.

I have never experienced such an effect from anything. I can't say that I noticed any difference in libido or anabolic affects but within 30 minutes of taking the progesterone I feel buzzed, like I've had a couple beers. It seems to last for about 3 hours.

The drunk feeling is well-known and Peat has written about it. I think 400mg is excessive and can lower T production. The pro-T effects I have seen were from 10mg - 20mg daily and probably due to aromatase inhibition.

 

[DavePalumbo]

People, try boron with your progesterone!!!
One of boron's potential ways of increasing T and DHT is via increasing metabolism of progesterone. So it seems obvious to add boron.

 

[Frankdee20]

Nice, raisins provide roughly 4 mg per 100 grams. Most studies showed about 6-10 mg of Boron to boost T

 

[jb116]

Now just need to understand how boron, if it in fact does, helps increase progesterone metabolism since it is highly estrogenic.

 

[Frankdee20]

Anabolic men references a study showing Boron to have lowered Estrogen in men, idk.

 

[jb116]

Yea may be it has to do with dose. I know Ray and @haidut actually mentioned it to be highly estrogenic. Ray even said it's not really needed unless there was some special condition otherwise trace amounts are sufficient.

 

[Frankdee20]

Yeah, but can't one argue that a lot of things aren't really needed ? Lol, I think the T boosting community is a separate niche. Actually the RDA is only 2mg, so that's likely being met via diet, and yeah, no need to supplement. One could say D-AA isn't needed, or DHEA if it isn't low, etc.