DHT Prevents Prostate Cancer And May Even Treat It

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    10,943
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    I am sure many of the forum users here are aware of the "controversy" that surrounds the role of androgens in prostate cancer and MPB. By "controversy" I really mean stupidity/fraud, as there is no physiological rationale under which a strong androgen like DHT, which is at its lowest levels in the most frail/sick male organisms, will cause prostate cancer or balding. Peat wrote about the role of androgens in prostate cancer in one of his articles and even suggested that prostate cancer be treated with testosterone, as a way to raise the androgen/estrogen ratio.
    Prostate Cancer
    "...Also, a high ratio of testosterone to estradiol or of testosterone to prolactin corresponded to better survival (Rannikko, et al., 1981.) Considered separately, patients with higher testosterone levels had a better prognosis than those with lower levels, and patients with lower growth hormone levels did better than those with higher growth hormone levels. (Wilson, et al., 1985.) Has anyone ever tried testosterone therapy for prostate cancer? Or, more practically, a generalized antiestrogenic therapy, using thyroid, progesterone, and pregnenolone? Other drugs (naloxone, bromocriptine, gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonists, and anti-growth hormone druges, e.g.) are available to regulate the pituitary hormones, and might be useful therapeutically or preventively. (See Blaakaer, et al., 1995.) Biskind and Biskind's work (1944) with ovarian tumors might be relevant to both testicular and prostate cancer."

    As sacrilegious as it may be to the mainstream fraudulent theory, the testosterone therapy was tried in human patients and it was a resounding success.
    Cancer "paradox": Testosterone Treats Prostate Cancer
    Another Confirmation That Testosterone Can Treat Prostate Cancer

    However, the response of mainstream medicine was that the testosterone therapy in these trials worked because it was getting converted to estrogen. The fact that the prostate is the major intracine male organ, that it expresses 5-AR more than any other enzyme and synthesizes primarily DHT (from T), was of course never mentioned in those "explanations". But more importantly, if the treatment for prostate cancer is to be focused mainly on opposing estrogen while maintaining vitality and strength in the aging male, then one would think that DHT would be much better suited than T as prevention/treatment of prostate cancer (and actually MPB as well). Unlike T, using DHT will lower estrogen rather than increase it, and will increase even more the androgen/estrogen ratio, which will shift the signalling systemically even further away in from estrogen. Actually, an even better approach would be a combination prevention/treatment with progesterone + DHT.
    Unsurprisingly, there aren't any studies on treating prostate cancer with DHT as that would likely quickly kill the multi-billion dollar "castration industry" (as the current treatment for prostate cancer is known). There are some in vitro studies I posted several months ago, which do show that a combination of androgens (T, DHT, R1881) with vitamin D are capable of halting prostate cancer.
    Androgens (DHT, T) Treat Prostate Cancer, Especially When Combined With Vitamin D
    However, in vivo studies are virtually non-existent...or at least so I thought until I looked deeper.
    The studies below are in vivo and across multiple species. They found that using DHT not only does not cause prostate cancer but in fact (at a higher dose) completely prevents its development or (at a lower dose) strongly reduces its incidence. In addition, in one of the studies treatment with T actually increased prostate cancer incidence, undoubtedly due to increased aromatization of T in older male organisms. The study itself said that T-treated rats had the highest estradiol levels.
    Furthermore, one of the studies reports that the addition of PUFA greatly increased the development of prostate cancer with T treatment.
    Finally, the second study sheds some light on why some studies with DHT may have found an increase in prostate cancer. Biodientical DHT was found to be highly protective, but its esters like benzoate and propionate actually promoted prostate cancer development. This immediately reminded me of Ray's articles on the reported "toxicity" of progesterone when dissolved in benzyl benzoate.
    Progesterone Summaries - Progesterone Deceptions - Progesterone Supplementation - Dosage of Progesterone
    "...When people speak of an allergy to progesterone (or even to penicillin) they generally are not aware of the presence of a very toxic solvent.(5) For a time, progesterone was often sold dissolved in benzyl benzoate. The Physician's Desk Reference warned of possible allergic reactions to progesterone. Now, it is supposedly sold dissolved in vegetable oil, with about 10% benzyl alcohol as--supposedly--a “bacteriostatic agent.”

    So, I am beginning to wonder how many other "toxic" or even "carcinogenic" reports on progesterone, T and DHT are actually due to simply using a toxic solvent. Was this done on purpose??

    As far as doses used in the studies below - they were quite reasonable, end even low compared to what is commonly used in humans nowadays. In the first study, which found complete prevention of prostate cancer, the HED for DHT was ~0.25mg/kg, which is rather low and below the doses commonly used in clinics for treatment of gynecomastia. The HED for T was ~0.6mg/kg, so I guess a morale of the study is that anybody using T should stay below this dose daily in order to avoid increasing risk of prostate cancer development. Peat himself said not to use more than 5mg - 10mg daily. In the second study, which found "only" 50% reduction in prostate cancer using DHT, they used a lower doses - i.e. the HED was 0.05mg/kg.
    So, in light of these findings below and in spirit of Ray's article above I hereby ask the question: "Has anyone tried progesterone + DHT therapy for prostate cancer or MPB?" Years ago I said in another thread that progesterone and DHT are the only two hormones worth optimizing for in a male. The studies below and the recent posts of creating an anticatabolic/anabolic combination only strengthen my opinion on this.

    Dihydrotestosterone does not induce prostate adenocarcinoma in L-W rats. - PubMed - NCBI
    "...The 10% incidence of spontaneous prostate cancer in untreated aged L-W rats [9] was enhanced by administrations of testosterone (T) [8], further enhanced by administration of T plus high levels of dietary corn oil [10,11], and very significantly enhanced by T treatments following a single IV dose of N-methyl-N-nitrosourea [ 121. Thus it appears that, although T acts in the promotion of prostate carcinogenesis in rats, the actual mechanism of tumor initiation is as yet uncertain. The agent(s) that initiates the pathogenic process in man are as yet unknown."
    "...It has been reported that T is converted predominantly to 5a-androstan- 170-01- 3-one (5a-dihydrotestosterone; DHT) through activity of 5a-reductase and that DHT is a potent androgenic agent [ 13-15]. It has been postulated that DHT and not T is the active androgen in the development of prostate cancer and that 5a-reductase inhibitors have prophylactic and therapeutic value in this disease [ 161. In an attempt to assess the hypothesis that DHT is involved in prostate cancer, young male L-W rats were implanted with depots of DHT in silastic membranes; the rats were observed thereafter for evidence of prostate cancer. No tumor developed in the course of 14 months. During the same time period, treatments with T implants induced large prostate cancers in 24% of the treated L-W rats."
    "...Levels of DHT in the serum of the DHT-treated rats were higher than that in untreated controls and comparable to levels in the T-treated rats (Table 11). Serum estradiol levels were highest in the T-treated rats. However, the increase in estradiol in T-treated rats was not in proportion to the increase in serum T in these same rats."
    "...The DHT-treated rats showed neither gross nor microscopic evidence of tumorigenic effect. The tubuloalveolar ducts in the prostate glands were clean and lined with single layers of columnar or cuboidal cells (Figs. 1,2). The connective tissue stromata were relatively sparse and free of infiltrating mononuclear cells"
    "...Among the T-treated rats, 24 % had developed grossly visible prostate adenocarcinomas, and 16 % demonstrated microscopically what we interpreted as “in situ” tumors. The weights of prostate glands (Table I) were from rats free of gross tumors. Ducts in the prostate glands were dilated with cellular debris or amorphous precipitated material."
    "...The original intent in this experiment was to determine if DHT would manifest a more enhanced tumorigenic effect than T on the prostate gland of our susceptible L-W rat. The reasoning was based on the conversion of T to DHT by Sa-reductase [13-151 and that DHT, as a more potent androgen than T, may be related to the development of prostate cancer [ 16]. The results were contrary to those anticipated in the above reasoning. Implants of T in L-W rats resulted in gross and microscopic prostate adenocarcinomas in an average of 14 months; 24% were gross tumors, and in addition 16% were of microscopic sizes [lo]. However, L-W rats that were implanted with DHT produced no evidence of prostate tumors. Actually, the production of in situ tumors was prevented."


    Dihydrotestosterone prevents spontaneous adenocarcinomas in the prostate-seminal vesicle in aging L-W rats. - PubMed - NCBI
    "...CONCLUSIONS. Slow-release implants of DHT administered to L-W rats at age 12 months reduced by 50% the development of spontaneous P-SV tumors by age 24 months."
    "...In 1987, we reported that testosterone propionate (TP) promoted, but that dihydrotestosterone (DHT) did not promote, the development of cancers in the accessory sex glands [prostate and seminal vesicles (P-SV)] of Lobund-Wistar (L-W) rats [1]...The inhibitory effect of DHT on induced P-SV tumors was confirmed in Fischer [2] and in L-W rats [3]."
    "...The inhibitory effects of DHT reported by us [1,5], contrasting with the reported trophic effect of DHT (6–8), was clarified: DHT (5a-Androstan-17b-ol-3-one) inhibited the development of induced P-SV tumors, but DHT propionate promoted tumor development [3]. The trophic effect was also demonstrated with DHT-benzoate (Sigma Chemical Company, St. Louis, MO) [11]."
    "...There are unanswered questions in this report on DHT: (a) what is the optimal dosage of DHT; (b) will the incidence of tumors be further reduced by earlier treatment of rats with DHT; (c) where in the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis is the functional linkage interrupted by DHT; (d) are the results on induced P-SV tumors comparable to results on spontaneous tumors; and (e) why was esterified DHT active but nonesterified DHT inactive in the development of PSV tumors [3]? Acknowledging the limits of confidence in model systems, evidence in accumulating that environmental (epigenetic) factors can modify gene-directed prostate-related cancers."
     
  2. bzmazu

    bzmazu Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2015
    Messages:
    432
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Corozal, Belize
    Thank you...great info...it's one of the reasons for my interest in/use of progesterone. Is DHT available for this?
     
  3. tca300

    tca300 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    972
    Gender:
    Male
    Amazing! Thank you @haidut
    I dont think we could find this info anywhere else.
     
  4. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    10,943
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Well, a company in France produces a DHT gel called Andractim. Most doctors can also prescribe DHT if they think the aging male is fragile, but they try to push T first.
     
  5. bzmazu

    bzmazu Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2015
    Messages:
    432
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Corozal, Belize
    There has been a big turn around in my prostate problems since I started Peating.. nettle and the cancer preventative Artemisinin have also put my worries to rest. Am now including Progestine in my arsenal.

    Artemisinin blocks prostate cancer growth and cell cycle progression by disrupting Sp1 interactions with the cyclin-dependent kinase-4 (CDK4) promo... - PubMed - NCBI
     
  6. Owen B

    Owen B Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    64
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm pretty sure my rat's prostate problems diminished when I put him back on Cypro. Rat reported that his prostate just felt less hard and his PSA went down from 4.5 to 3.5.
     
  7. CLASH

    CLASH Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    Messages:
    91
    Gender:
    Male
    @haidut
    While I was researching I found something interesting that supports your claims. It seems that TLR4 increases fibrosis and DHT is elevated in response to this inflammatory fibrotic effect of TLR4 activation. In research DHT opposes the sclerosing effect (this was for atherosclerosis):
    https://watermark.silverchair.com/j...rsErGwo4-nCPd3P2oRx_6nqEY6jXQlbOJn3o2o9F7kdmw

    I dont have the other studies directly on hand on my phone.

    There is often an association with hairloss, DHT, and heart disease that both you and danny have discussed. I think that DHT is elevated in response to the TLR4 induced inflammation-> fibrosis in the body as a protectice mechanism. This explains the hairloss and DHT connection. I think the key causes of hairloss stems from the gut via adrenal upregulation and other adaptive "hormones" but it also seems that TLR4 activation is what is directly fibrosing the scalp. The reason that people find DHT in the scalp is in response to this fibrosis. Also, chronic prostatitis, which is a precursor to prostate cancer is a function of gut health as well in some cases a direct infection of the prostate.
    These reason I bring these up is because I think 1) it helps to elucidate your point 2) I think alot of your posts point towards the gut as being an initiator of these issues. For example, antagonists to TLR4 are ketotifen and propentofylline a xanthine derivative. Compounds and or relatives of compounds both you and peat discuss.
     
  8. Obi-wan

    Obi-wan Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    70
    Gender:
    Male
    I have posted on various threads on this forum. I have advanced prostate cancer. I am currently take 200-400mg of progesterone per day. I was on a drug called Firmagon which shuts down LH and FSH and worked well. I got off about 3 months ago because the doc said the PSA started to rise and I was becoming castration resistant. So now I am on my own. I am thinking FSH only makes aromatase so I am using Androsterone as an inhibitor. I also use 20 mg of Preg per day and do all the supplements that are talked about on various posts. Thanks @bzmazu for recommending Artemisinin which is sweet wormwood. I now take it also. I believe there might be a connection with prostate inflammation and pinworms or round worms which wormwood kills. Doing T3, K1 and Androsterone on the scrotum. Not sure of Pansterone and DHEA conversion. I am considering going back on Firmagon but do not want to. I think shutting down LH also slows down thyroid. I would love to hear everyone's thoughts...
     
  9. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    2,987
  10. johnwester130

    johnwester130 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,215
    DHT is a youth hormone.

    Why on earth would anyone want to reduce it ??
     
  11. tca300

    tca300 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    972
    Gender:
    Male
    Do you use any and or all of these?
    Orange juice
    Well cooked white button mushrooms
    Raw carrots
    Good vitamin E
    Aspirin
    Red light
    Coffee
    Vitamin A
    Enough Protein
    Shell fish
    Vitamin D
     
  12. Richiebogie

    Richiebogie Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2015
    Messages:
    420
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Australia
    Allopathy 101: The manageable condition

    1. Describe the unpatentable chemical cure or dietary cure as toxic
    2. Market a patented toxin as the indicated standard treatment.
    3. When the patented toxin above is finally discredited, create a new 'improved' patented toxin and market that as the indicated standard treatment.
     
  13. CLASH

    CLASH Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    Messages:
    91
    Gender:
    Male
    Dihydrotestosterone Decreases Tumor Necrosis Factor- and Lipopolysaccharide-Induced Inflammatory Response in Human Endothelial Cells

    -heres the article title. Its in cultured cells unfotunately. I will try to find more with fibrosis/ sclerosis and DHT atleast in rats/ mice.
     
  14. TheDrumGuy

    TheDrumGuy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    Gender:
    Male
    I came across these interesting studies on BPH years ago. Basically, they found that the testicular veins in men with BPH had incompetent valves. The venous drainage of the testes is interesting in that it is in communication with the prostate. So in these men, the elevated pressure in the spermatic veins results in retrograde flow from the testes to the prostate. Basically the prostate ends up exposed to 100x the normal level of testosterone, which results in hyperplasia and presumably cancer years down the line.

    Reversal of benign prostate hyperplasia by selective occlusion of impaired venous drainage in the male reproductive system: novel mechanism, new treatment

    Prostate cancer: a newly discovered route for testosterone to reach the prostate

    So essentially BPH and prostate cancer may be venous problems. For whatever reason it looks like no one really followed up on these studies.
     
  15. PhilParma

    PhilParma Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Messages:
    216
    Gender:
    Male
    I noticed the first signs of MPB on my scalp during June 2017. The rate at which it is progressing is impressive, in spite of the fact that I utilize a majority of the tactics that this forum tends to recommend for MPB. I started spraying my own mixed Solban-esque solution on my scalp in April 2017 as a prophylactic measure against balding. Two months later my scalp began balding anyway. A few weeks ago I added the following to my protocol:

    - One drop daily of androsterone on testes
    - 3 or 4 drops weekly of progestene on balding area of the scalp

    So I'm trying progesterone + DHT therapy for MPB. I'll give it a few months and see what happens. If I'm Norwood 4 by the New Year, then DHT causes MPB. :bag:
     
  16. CLASH

    CLASH Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    Messages:
    91
    Gender:
    Male
    @TheDrumGuy
    Interesting studies. The question is what causes the valves to be "destroyed"? If we can find the etiology than perhaps we can reverse it. The authors recommend sclerotherapy but I dont understand why that works. Collapsing veins to restore blood flow? Isn't that a bit counterproductive?
     
  17. TheDrumGuy

    TheDrumGuy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    Gender:
    Male
    I think the idea is that by eliminating that column of fluid over PP (I'm looking at the diagram in the first link) you reduce the pressure in PP, so the pressure gradient from PP to PVP drops. Blood stops flowing from the testes to the prostate (ie from PP to PVP via DV and VP) and instead drains through CV and SV. I doubt it's a perfect fix.
     
  18. CLASH

    CLASH Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    Messages:
    91
    Gender:
    Male
    I see what your saying, definetly not s perfect fix; damning the river to revert the flow doesnt seem like a good idea. Perhaps the valves in the spermatic vein havent collapsed but some type of pressure is being put on the vein from other organs? If the valves have collapsed could it be due to similar mechanisms as with heart disease? If so couldnt we fix it with vit c, amino acids and removal of the inflammatory stimulus (endotoxin, PUFA, heavy metals) over time? The valve issue is glossed over so many times in the article but its the most relevant aspect haha. The reductionism of the authors is stifling.
     
  19. Obi-wan

    Obi-wan Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    70
    Gender:
    Male
    Hey @tca300, I have read many of your posts. Yes, I do all but mushrooms and red light. Prostate cancer is a hormonal driven cancer. Firmagon stopped all bone pain and stiffness when I started taking it. I am starting to get these symptoms back. Currently concentrating on Progesterone, Preg.,and T4/T3, T3. I also have removed my cell phone from my pocket since I feel this is a probable cause (constant excitation to various organs in that area). I feel the answer is controlling LH and FSH...why do men have FSH? It's so female!
     
  20. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    10,943
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    I think your comment is spot on. The role of endotoxin/TLR4 in virtually all chronic disease, including prostate cancer, is grossly overlooked by mainstream medicine but lately there have been some signs of reversal of this ostrich "head in the sand" behavior.
    Endotoxin And Iron Finally Recognized As Potential Causes Of Many Diseases

    Specifically to your point about sclerosis and prostate problems, recent studies have brought the issue to the forefront again, even tough the link has been known for decades.
    Systemic Sclerosis (scleroderma) May Be Due To Endotoxin; Blocking TLR4 Can Treat It
    Prostate Enlargement (BPH) May Be Due To Endotoxin

    Not sure if you know, but the drug ketotifen you mentioned is approved for systemic sclerosis in some countries. Other TLR4 antagonists may follow suit, and I guess we can add ketotifen/cypro to the list of drugs that can prevent prostate cancer, under the assumption that endotoxin is a major factor. Finally, not sure what the study you tried to post was as the link seems broken, but here is another (maybe same) study where DHT blocked TLR4 and the resulting inflammation.
    Inflammation-Induced TLR4 Expression And Reactive Oxygen Species Are Attenuated By Dihydrotestostero
     
Loading...