Oral Progesterone Increases Testosterone And DHT

[haidut]

This rodent study shows that a hefty oral dose of progesterone stimulated synthesis of and elevated the levels of both testosterone and DHT. It seems that if progesterone has any negative effects on male steroids it requires dosages higher than the ones used in the study. Speaking of dosages, the human equivalent dose was 5.7mg/kg, so this means a range of 450mg - 600mg for most people.
Also, progesterone administration did not change LH / FSH, which means progesterone administration did not suppress endogenus production of these steroids through negative feedback loops.

http://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/122997

"...At 6–8 h after administration of P, serum T and DHT levels were consistently increased without any alterations in the serum LH and FSH levels. Following disruption of the hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal axis either by adrenalectomy or by anterior hypothalamic deafferentation, procedures known to abolish serum T and P periodicities, P was again effective in raising serum T concentrations without altering the serum gonadotropin values. These results show that P may directly enhance testicular secretion, and thus support the possibility that the observed adrenal influence on daily testicular T secretion pattern may be hormonally mediated via P secretion."

 

[lexis]

Can males take Progest E orally?

 

[Ashoka]

Absolutely amazing.

And I believe the answer is yes to your question.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Perhaps they are smelling the progesterone off themselves

 

[Fetch]

I am probably missing something but isn't like 170 drops of progest-E? are there other high quality large dose sources of progesterone?

 

[Agent207]

Wouldn't the fact that those studies have been done on rodents/animals should be something to specify on thread's title to avoid initial misleading thiking on humans? Like the original title studies ususally do...

"Oral progesterone increases testosterone and DHT in rodents" or "Progesterone Stimulates Testosterone Secretion in Male Rats".

'm just saying... so the initial expectatives reading the title to be more on par with the study conclusion.

 

[haidut]

post 104081 Wouldn't the fact that those studies have been done on rodents/animals should be something to specify on thread's title to avoid initial misleading thiking on humans? Like the original title studies ususally do...

"Oral progesterone increases testosterone and DHT in rodents" or "Progesterone Stimulates Testosterone Secretion in Male Rats".

'm just saying... so the initial expectatives reading the title to be more on par with the study conclusion.

Many studies have discussions about extrapolation of animal results to humans and also make some predictions of whether that would work in humans or not. So, even though the study may have been done on animals, the goal of the study is usually to build a model and determine likely effects in humans. I doubt all these scientists get paid to do studies solely with the purpose of finding out what say progesterone will do to rodents.
As such, as long as the discussion specifies that it is a animal model (as it does above) I think it is fair game. Btw, there are quite a few animal models that have been shown to be virtually identical to human conditions, so that is a factor to be considered as well. There is no drug on the market today (other than aspirin) that did not go through an animal trial first and used the positive results from the animal trial to follow up with a human one.
But I see your point, so thanks for that.

 

[Agent207]

Thanks to you for all this good info.

Dont know much about, but I remember to have read that like pregnenolone, progesterone net effect on final hormones may rely much on individual circumstances, like adrenal, thyroid state...etc, for the conversion to be the way we want and wont rise the estrogenic/stress hormones.

 

[haidut]

post 104091 Thanks to you for all this good info.

Dont know much about, but I remember to have read that like pregnenolone, progesterone net effect on final hormones may rely much on individual circumstances, like adrenal, thyroid state...etc, for the conversion to be the way we want and wont rise the estrogenic/stress hormones.

That is true, the net effects will depend on health and nutrition. However, of all the steroids one can use therapeutically, progesterone is one of the few that are likely to have a stabilizing effect and not derail health even more. The same cannot be said for steroids like testosterone since it will easily aromatize in most people if the conditions are not right. I'd say DHT is a very good alternative for males under stress as it has many of the pro-metabolic and mental health properties of progesterone, it opposes estrogen just like progesterone, and it helps excrete cortisol.

 

[Agent207]

Yeah DHT is fine for oppose estrogen, but it would be cautious to warn those concerned with hairloss since its a metabolite much related to it and rising serum levels can add to its concentration on scalp.

 

[Entropy]

post 104163 Yeah DHT is fine for oppose estrogen, but it would be cautious to warn those concerned with hairloss since its a metabolite much related to it and rising serum levels can add to its concentration on scalp.

Think DHT is ruled out with studies finding no difference of DHT levels and sensitivity between balding men vs with hair..

But If someone can find studies on DHT=PGD-2 pathway...

Because I'm seeing omega 6-arachidonic acid as the culprit for PGD-2..

 

[Agent207]

Its not the overall DHT serum levels, but the affinity for it on scalp in some people. I mean the 5-AR type I & II density on scalp which varies between individuals; this is if you have much of this one, its likely the DHT levels will affect you sooner or later. If you dont, it doesn't matter that much.

Theres strong evidence about steroids on speeding up process of hairloss with continous high doses of AAS, both aromatizable and non aromatizable ones.

 

[Parsifal]

Last time I tried Progest-E orally it gave me palpitations and pain in the heart area and next day pain in the joints. I wonder why. On the other hand I don't have any sign of high NO since taking it.

 

[haidut]

I just wanted to paste some excerpts from the study, since they show how dramatic the increase in T and especially DHT was in the rats given oral progesterone. T rose by a factor of 2-4, while DHT rose by a factor of 7-11! T and DHT also rose several fold even in rats that were adrenalectomized. Not sure any other steroid (natural or synthetic) can rival these results. So much for progesterone being a 5-AR and DHT inhibitor

 

[Dizzryda]

I just wanted to paste some excerpts from the study, since they show how dramatic the increase in T and especially DHT was in the rats given oral progesterone. T rose by a factor of 2-4, while DHT rose by a factor of 7-11! T and DHT also rose several fold even in rats that were adrenalectomized. Not sure any other steroid (natural or synthetic) can rival these results. So much for progesterone being a 5-AR and DHT inhibitor

If I'm reading the study correctly it says t levels increased when measured 6-8 hours after using. Was this just a one time thing? My personal experience with progesterone was mind blowing after those first initial doses. These results diminished drastically in me over time. After a month or so I had my t level checked and it was super low. I wonder how these results in mice would look after a month using progesterone.

 

[mujuro]

Sweet. Higher T levels and I get to anesthetize myself.

 

[haidut]

post 105328

I just wanted to paste some excerpts from the study, since they show how dramatic the increase in T and especially DHT was in the rats given oral progesterone. T rose by a factor of 2-4, while DHT rose by a factor of 7-11! T and DHT also rose several fold even in rats that were adrenalectomized. Not sure any other steroid (natural or synthetic) can rival these results. So much for progesterone being a 5-AR and DHT inhibitor

If I'm reading the study correctly it says t levels increased when measured 6-8 hours after using. Was this just a one time thing? My personal experience with progesterone was mind blowing after those first initial doses. These results diminished drastically in me over time. After a month or so I had my t level checked and it was super low. I wonder how these results in mice would look after a month using progesterone.

The experiments were single day injections, so yes, there is the possibility that with chronic use T/DHT levels may decline. However, there are chronic studies (8 weeks) with progesterone and it also raised T even though the dose was lower (about 200mg equivalent for a human). I guess it would depend on the dose. Lower doses of progesterone have been shown to convert into allopregnanolone, T and DHT while at the same time inhibiting estrogen. Higher doses of progesterone bind to the androgen receptor, but actually as a weak agonist and not as antagonist (like many people seem to believe). Large doses of progesterone have been shown to increase prostate size in rats comparably to DHT, so again, not exactly anti-androgenic.

 

[velo]

Interesting.. am a bit surprised by this, everything I read said progesterone is anti-androgen (which is a big reason I take it). What would be a recommended upper limit for a woman to not get androgen/testosterone like effects, is 100-150 ml considered a lower dose?

 

[haidut]

post 105442 Interesting.. am a bit surprised by this, everything I read said progesterone is anti-androgen (which is a big reason I take it). What would be a recommended upper limit for a woman to not get androgen/testosterone like effects, is 100-150 ml considered a lower dose?

Women do not seem to get the androgenic side effects unless their adrenals are not working (Addison disease) in which case some of the progesterone will turn into androgens. This study is for males mostly.

 

[sladerunner69]

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