Westside PUFAs
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- Joined
- Feb 4, 2015
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There are more and more "Peat inspired" practitioners, nutritionists, bloggers, personal trainers etc., popping up all over the globe. Many of these people often misrepresent Ray Peat's views on many things; mainly "sugar," milk fat, exercise, supplements, and greens. But today's focus is going to be on greens.
User asks: "Why no love for the leafy greens mate?"
Josh Rubin: "If you watch more of my youtubes and check out our blog, it will make sense. They are higher in cellulose and unsat fats which we can't break down, cause GI issues, over load the liver, suppress the thyroid, etc, etc. that is why we rec fruits and roots. We are not cows (ruminant animals) which are designed to break down these foods. We do not physiologically have the gut for it. Check out the work of Ray Peat, some of our other youtubes, blog on our website, etc. As well, we talk about this in depth in our programs. Thanks for the question and support."
I then commented with Peat's pro-greens quotes and Josh Replied:
"For one, we don't eat, live and breathe according to a book, a person etc. like others do. Do we study Rays work, for sure we do but we also use it and mix it with others work, human physiology and the the person in front of us, which most ignore. So when it comes to healing the thyroid, regulating blood sugar and the guT, leafy greens to nothing to help with that. But, for someone that is healed, can't get fruit in the winter, doesn't like fish etc and needs minerals, they can be added and overlooked to aid in digestion. So, from a constipation point of view and the thyroid we don't recommend them, hence the video. From a global perspective we don't recommend them as optimal carbs. From a global perspective we Rec them if we feel the Person in front of us can handle them, as long as they are paired with a fruit or root and overlooked. So as you can see, it all depends on the client that's in front of you:)"
But Josh said "Check out the work of Ray Peat" when the person asked about greens...that's misrepresentation.
From the comment section of: What Causes Constipation?
Kitty Blomfield interview with Danny Roddy:
Kitty: "So I noticed in your diet there are no grains, nuts, seeds or green vegetable’s, no green vegetables, what?? And white sugar!"
Danny: "Ray has an excellent newsletter “who defines food” he makes a case that green vegetables are a poor peoples food and they don’t have an integral place in the diet (I might be paraphrasing he may not have said that exact thing in the newsletter)."
http://nustrength.com.au/interview-with-danny-roddy-2/
The quote Danny is talking about:
"Poor people, especially in the spring when other foods were scarce, have sometimes subsisted on foliage such as collard and poke greens, usually made more palatable by cooking them with flavorings, such as a little bacon grease and lots of salt. Eventually, "famine foods" can be accepted as dietary staples. The fact that cows, sheep, goats and deer can thrive on a diet of foliage shows that leaves contain essential nutrients. Their minerals, vitamins, and amino acids are suitable for sustaining most animal life, if a sufficient quantity is eaten. But when people try to live primarily on foliage, as in famines, they soon suffer from a great variety of diseases. Various leaves contain antimetabolic substances that prevent the assimilation of the nutrients, and only very specifically adapted digestive systems (or technologies) can overcome those toxic effects."
Vegetables, etc.Who Defines Food?
People should familiarize themselves with there term "nuance." This is a very important word in Peat-land. The fine details are important.
Of course people can't live off of foliage. Peat was talking about living through a famine. And "poke greens" are not the same as other greens. Just like a guava is not the same as a strawberry but they are both "fruits."
“Foods with a higher, safer ratio of calcium to phosphate are leaves, such as kale, turnip greens, and beet greens, and many fruits, milk, and cheese. - from Ray Peat article "Phosphate, activation, and aging"
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ph ... ging.shtml
Kitty: "As you know we run a program called “popping the food bubble’ which was written by Dodie Anderson and Rob Turner. Many people think after many years of treating their body a certain way they are going to fixed in 12 weeks, we are forever trying to educate people on the ‘physiological timeline’ vs the ‘marketing timeline’ as Rob Turner would put it. I have been eating this way for two years now and I still feel like I am learning, where are you at in the journey?"
Kitty may have missed this part of RT's program:
http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2014/0 ... etabolism/
Peat quotes on greens in the context of just using their bolied water:
"I sometimes make a magnesium supplement by boiling a pound of greens (kale, beets, spinach, etc.) in a little water, making a concentrated extract rich in magnesium.”
"The things I most often recommend for magnesium are the water from boiling greens such as beet, chard, turnip and kale, and coffee."
"Cooked green leaves, or the water they were boiled in, is a very good source of magnesium, with other minerals in safe ratio."
[GREEN JUICES] "The minerals and vitamin K are definitely valuable, but the high content of PUFA and tannins is a problem. Boiling the leaves and discarding all but the water can produce a good magnesium supplement.
[I supplement 5g of vit K2 mk-4 once a week, do you think green veggies are even necessary?] If you have other sources of magnesium, the green vegetables aren't needed"
Peat quotes on greens in context of eating the whole leaves:
"Those hormones, antagonistic to cortisol, can help to reduce waist fat. Chard, collard, and kale are good greens."
"Well cooked potatoes, with butter or cream, fruit, and well cooked greens are other foods have vitamins and minerals that are helpful."
"Well cooked greens are very good sources, coffee and chocolate are, too."
"but the first thing should be to make sure her calcium to phosphorus ratio is good, by having two quarts of low fat milk per day, or the equivalent in low fat cheese, with no grains, legumes, nuts, or muscle meats, and with some well cooked greens regularly. Vitamin K is important for calcium metabolism, too."
"Cooked green leaves, or the water they were boiled in, is a very good source of magnesium, with other minerals in safe ratio." (both whole and water quote)
It's okay to have a little well-cooked broccoli dipped in hummus, you won't get a goiter:
"Some fibers, such as raw carrots, that are effective for lowering endotoxin absorption also contain natural antibiotics, so regular use of carrots should be balanced by occasional supplementation with vitamin K, or by occasionally eating liver or broccoli." - Email with Kasra
http://wiki.raypeatforum.com/index.php/ ... _Exchanges
User asks: "Why no love for the leafy greens mate?"
Josh Rubin: "If you watch more of my youtubes and check out our blog, it will make sense. They are higher in cellulose and unsat fats which we can't break down, cause GI issues, over load the liver, suppress the thyroid, etc, etc. that is why we rec fruits and roots. We are not cows (ruminant animals) which are designed to break down these foods. We do not physiologically have the gut for it. Check out the work of Ray Peat, some of our other youtubes, blog on our website, etc. As well, we talk about this in depth in our programs. Thanks for the question and support."
I then commented with Peat's pro-greens quotes and Josh Replied:
"For one, we don't eat, live and breathe according to a book, a person etc. like others do. Do we study Rays work, for sure we do but we also use it and mix it with others work, human physiology and the the person in front of us, which most ignore. So when it comes to healing the thyroid, regulating blood sugar and the guT, leafy greens to nothing to help with that. But, for someone that is healed, can't get fruit in the winter, doesn't like fish etc and needs minerals, they can be added and overlooked to aid in digestion. So, from a constipation point of view and the thyroid we don't recommend them, hence the video. From a global perspective we don't recommend them as optimal carbs. From a global perspective we Rec them if we feel the Person in front of us can handle them, as long as they are paired with a fruit or root and overlooked. So as you can see, it all depends on the client that's in front of you:)"
But Josh said "Check out the work of Ray Peat" when the person asked about greens...that's misrepresentation.
From the comment section of: What Causes Constipation?
Kitty Blomfield interview with Danny Roddy:
Kitty: "So I noticed in your diet there are no grains, nuts, seeds or green vegetable’s, no green vegetables, what?? And white sugar!"
Danny: "Ray has an excellent newsletter “who defines food” he makes a case that green vegetables are a poor peoples food and they don’t have an integral place in the diet (I might be paraphrasing he may not have said that exact thing in the newsletter)."
http://nustrength.com.au/interview-with-danny-roddy-2/
The quote Danny is talking about:
"Poor people, especially in the spring when other foods were scarce, have sometimes subsisted on foliage such as collard and poke greens, usually made more palatable by cooking them with flavorings, such as a little bacon grease and lots of salt. Eventually, "famine foods" can be accepted as dietary staples. The fact that cows, sheep, goats and deer can thrive on a diet of foliage shows that leaves contain essential nutrients. Their minerals, vitamins, and amino acids are suitable for sustaining most animal life, if a sufficient quantity is eaten. But when people try to live primarily on foliage, as in famines, they soon suffer from a great variety of diseases. Various leaves contain antimetabolic substances that prevent the assimilation of the nutrients, and only very specifically adapted digestive systems (or technologies) can overcome those toxic effects."
Vegetables, etc.Who Defines Food?
People should familiarize themselves with there term "nuance." This is a very important word in Peat-land. The fine details are important.
Of course people can't live off of foliage. Peat was talking about living through a famine. And "poke greens" are not the same as other greens. Just like a guava is not the same as a strawberry but they are both "fruits."
“Foods with a higher, safer ratio of calcium to phosphate are leaves, such as kale, turnip greens, and beet greens, and many fruits, milk, and cheese. - from Ray Peat article "Phosphate, activation, and aging"
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ph ... ging.shtml
Kitty: "As you know we run a program called “popping the food bubble’ which was written by Dodie Anderson and Rob Turner. Many people think after many years of treating their body a certain way they are going to fixed in 12 weeks, we are forever trying to educate people on the ‘physiological timeline’ vs the ‘marketing timeline’ as Rob Turner would put it. I have been eating this way for two years now and I still feel like I am learning, where are you at in the journey?"
Kitty may have missed this part of RT's program:
http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2014/0 ... etabolism/
Peat quotes on greens in the context of just using their bolied water:
"I sometimes make a magnesium supplement by boiling a pound of greens (kale, beets, spinach, etc.) in a little water, making a concentrated extract rich in magnesium.”
"The things I most often recommend for magnesium are the water from boiling greens such as beet, chard, turnip and kale, and coffee."
"Cooked green leaves, or the water they were boiled in, is a very good source of magnesium, with other minerals in safe ratio."
[GREEN JUICES] "The minerals and vitamin K are definitely valuable, but the high content of PUFA and tannins is a problem. Boiling the leaves and discarding all but the water can produce a good magnesium supplement.
[I supplement 5g of vit K2 mk-4 once a week, do you think green veggies are even necessary?] If you have other sources of magnesium, the green vegetables aren't needed"
Peat quotes on greens in context of eating the whole leaves:
"Those hormones, antagonistic to cortisol, can help to reduce waist fat. Chard, collard, and kale are good greens."
"Well cooked potatoes, with butter or cream, fruit, and well cooked greens are other foods have vitamins and minerals that are helpful."
"Well cooked greens are very good sources, coffee and chocolate are, too."
"but the first thing should be to make sure her calcium to phosphorus ratio is good, by having two quarts of low fat milk per day, or the equivalent in low fat cheese, with no grains, legumes, nuts, or muscle meats, and with some well cooked greens regularly. Vitamin K is important for calcium metabolism, too."
"Cooked green leaves, or the water they were boiled in, is a very good source of magnesium, with other minerals in safe ratio." (both whole and water quote)
It's okay to have a little well-cooked broccoli dipped in hummus, you won't get a goiter:
Charlie said:post 28 Although Peat basically scorns legumes, he said hummus in small amounts isn't nutritionally harmful, though chickpeas and tahini are both allergenic for some people.
"Some fibers, such as raw carrots, that are effective for lowering endotoxin absorption also contain natural antibiotics, so regular use of carrots should be balanced by occasional supplementation with vitamin K, or by occasionally eating liver or broccoli." - Email with Kasra
http://wiki.raypeatforum.com/index.php/ ... _Exchanges
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