Peata
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- Jun 12, 2013
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If anyone takes l-lysine, please report back on how you're doing. Especially if you've taken cyproheptadine too, and can compare how the two feel the same or different. Thanks.
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Peata said:If anyone takes l-lysine, please report back on how you're doing. Especially if you've taken cyproheptadine too, and can compare how the two feel the same or different. Thanks.
haidut said:Peata said:If anyone takes l-lysine, please report back on how you're doing. Especially if you've taken cyproheptadine too, and can compare how the two feel the same or different. Thanks.
I can report that after a dose of 1g-3g lysine on an empty stomach I can eat habanero peppers, which would normally destroy my gut health for a week. The studies reported dose-dependent effects on blocking serotonin, with maximum observed at a human dose of 12g-15g. However, the high dose was used to block effects of extra serotonin administered as injection combined with high stress. For most cases, a much lower dose would probably be enough but the sweet spot would likely be individual so has to be determined experimentally.
haidut said:Peata said:If anyone takes l-lysine, please report back on how you're doing. Especially if you've taken cyproheptadine too, and can compare how the two feel the same or different. Thanks.
I can report that after a dose of 1g-3g lysine on an empty stomach I can eat habanero peppers, which would normally destroy my gut health for a week. The studies reported dose-dependent effects on blocking serotonin, with maximum observed at a human dose of 12g-15g. However, the high dose was used to block effects of extra serotonin administered as injection combined with high stress. For most cases, a much lower dose would probably be enough but the sweet spot would likely be individual so has to be determined experimentally.
Peata said:haidut said:Peata said:If anyone takes l-lysine, please report back on how you're doing. Especially if you've taken cyproheptadine too, and can compare how the two feel the same or different. Thanks.
I can report that after a dose of 1g-3g lysine on an empty stomach I can eat habanero peppers, which would normally destroy my gut health for a week. The studies reported dose-dependent effects on blocking serotonin, with maximum observed at a human dose of 12g-15g. However, the high dose was used to block effects of extra serotonin administered as injection combined with high stress. For most cases, a much lower dose would probably be enough but the sweet spot would likely be individual so has to be determined experimentally.
Thanks. And do you have any thoughts on whether it would be harmful to take both l-lysine and cyproheptadine on the same day - such as l-lysine earlier in day and cypro at night on a daily basis?
I just wonder because maybe one could get benefits of both that way without weight gain from higher doses of cypro.
haidut said:I can't say much about safety, but people are consuming lysine as protein every day and those taking cypro have not yet reported bad interactions.
Btw, high dose cypro does not make you gain weight. It just increases appetite, which in SOME people results in gaining weight. If anything, since cyproheptadine is considered a peripheral serotonin antagonist as well, it should help weight loss through improved metabolism. Anything that blocks serotonin synthesis or its effects on tissues helps restore metabolism. Serotonin and estrogen are the cardinal metabolic poisons, and are of course driven by PUFA and stress. We had a thread on blocking peripheral serotonin as a viable methods of inducing weight loss.
Serotonin's evolutionary function is increasing metabolic efficiency in times of stress / famine. Peat's central theme is decreasing metabolic efficiency by, among other things, uncoupling the mitochondria. This is also the theory behind serotonin causing depression, as per another study I posted recently. Serotonin redirects limited energetic resources to vital functions like cardiac function and induces a state of "rumination" as an adaptive mechanism of coming up with a solution to a perceived problem. A hallmark of depression is deeply analytical thought, and inability to let go of memories of past events. In depression, the brain tries to collect as much information as possible (hence remembering the past in such vivid detail) in order to increase the statistical validity/significance of any generalizations the over-rumination is bound to come up with.
Anyways, I don't see why a person can't take lysine and cyproheptadine together but I'd still defer to a doctor / pharmacists for exact details on safety. For people living in the USA you can walk into any pharmacy like CVS, RiteAid, Walgreens, etc and ask the pharmacists that question. They are usually pretty good in terms of their knowledge of interactions.
Peata said:haidut said:I can't say much about safety, but people are consuming lysine as protein every day and those taking cypro have not yet reported bad interactions.
Btw, high dose cypro does not make you gain weight. It just increases appetite, which in SOME people results in gaining weight. If anything, since cyproheptadine is considered a peripheral serotonin antagonist as well, it should help weight loss through improved metabolism. Anything that blocks serotonin synthesis or its effects on tissues helps restore metabolism. Serotonin and estrogen are the cardinal metabolic poisons, and are of course driven by PUFA and stress. We had a thread on blocking peripheral serotonin as a viable methods of inducing weight loss.
Serotonin's evolutionary function is increasing metabolic efficiency in times of stress / famine. Peat's central theme is decreasing metabolic efficiency by, among other things, uncoupling the mitochondria. This is also the theory behind serotonin causing depression, as per another study I posted recently. Serotonin redirects limited energetic resources to vital functions like cardiac function and induces a state of "rumination" as an adaptive mechanism of coming up with a solution to a perceived problem. A hallmark of depression is deeply analytical thought, and inability to let go of memories of past events. In depression, the brain tries to collect as much information as possible (hence remembering the past in such vivid detail) in order to increase the statistical validity/significance of any generalizations the over-rumination is bound to come up with.
Anyways, I don't see why a person can't take lysine and cyproheptadine together but I'd still defer to a doctor / pharmacists for exact details on safety. For people living in the USA you can walk into any pharmacy like CVS, RiteAid, Walgreens, etc and ask the pharmacists that question. They are usually pretty good in terms of their knowledge of interactions.
Thanks again. Good info. I did have increased appetite on higher doses of Cypro and stopped taking it in the fall, but maybe I should have just lowered dose again and stuck it out to see if the appetite reduced.
I will try to talk to a pharmacist soon and see what they say about taking both.
So, one last question. Based on some recent posts on supplements, would you say it would pretty much cover all the Peat bases to take 1) cyproheptadine (or l-lysine) and 2) biotin? A person would then be effecting directly or indirectly - serotonin, estrogen, histamine, prolactin, dompamine, tryptophan, nitric oxide, ammonia, lactate, ATP, CO2, insulin sensitivity/glucose tolerance, glutamate, fatty acid synthesis.
Besides the other peaty measures like avoiding pufa, getting adequate protein, sunlight, calcium in diet, etc. etc, and getting other B vits to stay balanced, it seems like those two supplements could really help fill in. But say if I'm wrong.
Peat:
haidut said:Serotonin redirects limited energetic resources to vital functions like cardiac function and induces a state of "rumination" as an adaptive mechanism of coming up with a solution to a perceived problem. A hallmark of depression is deeply analytical thought, and inability to let go of memories of past events. In depression, the brain tries to collect as much information as possible (hence remembering the past in such vivid detail) in order to increase the statistical validity/significance of any generalizations the over-rumination is bound to come up with.
Bluebell said:haidut said:Serotonin redirects limited energetic resources to vital functions like cardiac function and induces a state of "rumination" as an adaptive mechanism of coming up with a solution to a perceived problem. A hallmark of depression is deeply analytical thought, and inability to let go of memories of past events. In depression, the brain tries to collect as much information as possible (hence remembering the past in such vivid detail) in order to increase the statistical validity/significance of any generalizations the over-rumination is bound to come up with.
Haidut, that's a fascinating way of putting it and very true: depression as rumination, too much analytical thought. Could I ask for any books or references where I can read more about that?
To achieve the opposite of this depressive state, should people go direct and reduce serotonin? Or concentrate on increasing dopamine instead, or ...?
haidut said:A hallmark of depression is deeply analytical thought, and inability to let go of memories of past events. In depression, the brain tries to collect as much information as possible (hence remembering the past in such vivid detail) in order to increase the statistical validity/significance of any generalizations the over-rumination is bound to come up with.
kineticz said:narouz said:kineticz said:Excellent, combining 1gram lysine with a powerful ioniser, plenty of orange juice and carbs, copper, bcaas, and aspirin are proving highly effective in boosting what appears to be my dopamine pathways.
What "powerful ionizers" are you thinking of, kin?
And on the bcaa's...
do you take them in the haidut fashion,
and do you then just add the lysine to that mix?
I have an expensive ionizer on my bed-side table, and recently I have found that I wake up without sinus irritation or mucus, whereas previously I would always wake up in an allergic type state with poor breathing.
I take the bcaa's before exercise to increase performance.
I read about lysine as something that helps biotin in the mitochondria pathways. I then came across studies as a sero receptor blocker.
kineticz said:Peata said:kineticz said:Studies have shown lysine can inhibit serotonin in the brain and gut. It's providing great anxiety relief for me, 2 x 500mg a day. I'm very sensitive to anything that lowers my stress systems currently so this response is most welcome.
Anyone tried this
I believe I've read where it can take weeks or months to build up to effect. Was it like that for you, or did it kick in after first dose?
I'm highly sensitive to hormones, supplements and vitamins. Has taken me a while to realise that actually, most of it is pointless, due to being so sensitive. My genetic setpoint is to maintain a low state of balance, rather than excess.
I also never attempted to directly block serotonin until now. I only tried BCAAs and that wasn't with the intention to block serotonin. In a short space of time my mood is better, but I am showing signs of adaptation, such as migraines and lines down fingernails.
Lysine reduced my anxiety after the first dose 1 x 500mg.
Peata said:kineticz said:Peata said:kineticz said:Studies have shown lysine can inhibit serotonin in the brain and gut. It's providing great anxiety relief for me, 2 x 500mg a day. I'm very sensitive to anything that lowers my stress systems currently so this response is most welcome.
Anyone tried this
I believe I've read where it can take weeks or months to build up to effect. Was it like that for you, or did it kick in after first dose?
I'm highly sensitive to hormones, supplements and vitamins. Has taken me a while to realise that actually, most of it is pointless, due to being so sensitive. My genetic setpoint is to maintain a low state of balance, rather than excess.
I also never attempted to directly block serotonin until now. I only tried BCAAs and that wasn't with the intention to block serotonin. In a short space of time my mood is better, but I am showing signs of adaptation, such as migraines and lines down fingernails.
Lysine reduced my anxiety after the first dose 1 x 500mg.
just to be clear, do you mean the BCAAs are giving you signs of adaptation - migraines, fingernail lines, or were you referring to lysine?
kineticz said:Fingernail lines I pinpointed to my copper intake. I think it was depleting key nutrients such as zinc.
Charlie said:kineticz said:Fingernail lines I pinpointed to my copper intake. I think it was depleting key nutrients such as zinc.
Were you supplementing copper?
Peata said:have you noticed any unwanted side effects from lysine?