Warning To People Taking Lysine

[Vinero]

I started taking the amino acid l-lysine 2 years ago because I read it reduces anxiety, lowers serotonin, and lowers nitric oxide. It made me feel quite calm and happy when I began taking it, and it seemed to have no negative side effects whatsoever. I took about 6 grams daily, which is the amount used in the studies that showed lowering of nitric oxide. I always took it after eating a protein-rich meal, which blocked arginine absorption (the precursor to nitric oxide). Since I read that nitric oxide speeds up the aging-process and lowering it improves your health, I reasoned that I was going to take this long-term, why not?

Well a few months later I suddenly started feeling really bad. I didn't have any appetite for food, couldn't sleep, I had massive anxiety, chest-pains, and lots of coughing. It felt like I had endotoxin poisoning or something.
I went to the doctor because I felt like I was going to die if I didn't.
I was diagnosed with pneumonia, a bacterial lung infection.
I got a course of antibiotics and felt better right away.
However, a few days after finishing my antibiotics, I started feeling sick again. The same symptoms.
I went to the doctor again, and was diagnosed with pneumonia again.
I got another round of antibiotics, felt better, then after a few days got sick yet again..

At this point I seriously wondered how this is even possible? Who gets an infection three times in a row?
I was a young man who was in otherwise good health, and I was not taking any immunosuppressive drugs.
So I began brain-storming and analyzing my diet and supplements I was taking, hoping to find a solution.
Then I read somewhere that l-arginine is a conditionally essential amino acid, and that it's important to get enough arginine when you have an infection. This is because l-arginine is converted to nitric oxide, which is overproduced in infection to kill the pathogens. If you do not have enough arginine the body fails to produce adequate nitric oxide and the bacteria overwhelm the immune system. Just google "arginine infection" or "arginine immune system" and lots of studies and results pop up.
Since lysine blocks dietary arginine absorption, it looked like I was inducing an arginine deficiency by taking lysine everyday. I immediately stopped taking the lysine, and took one last round of antibiotics.
Since I stopped taking the lysine the symptoms have never returned again, which I am grateful for.

I have learned my lesson, and now I know why Ray doesn't recommend people taking isolated amino acids.
Although arginine is bad in excess, you can get in serious trouble if you deplete arginine totally.
I only eat whole proteins now, I am even cautious about BCAA. Depleting tryptophan, methionine and cysteine might have some unpredictable result just like depleting arginine.

 

[cyclops]

Interesting. What are your thoughts on Taurine, Glycine, Proline, Theanine, Tyrosine? These are some common ones used by some here. Would you not use any of these now in any dose?

 

[Vinero]

You can experiment with amino acids but I wouldn't take large doses everyday for months, that's risky.
The lysine worked great for a while, but after a few months the induced arginine deficiency began to manifest itself.
If you decide to use amino acids, have some "off-days" where you only eat whole protein that day.
I sometimes take taurine or glycine but not everyday.

 

[BingDing]

Good work figuring that out @Vinero. I agree with your conclusions.

 

[lvysaur]

I sometimes take taurine or glycine but not everyday.

I do this already with everything, vitamins and minerals included. Why would you take an isolated supplement every day?

 

[sladerunner69]

Well, how much lysine were you consuming daily, on average?

 

[Kunder]

He said 6 grams daily, after meals. Which isnt that much, especially with food, the absorbtion will not be 100 percent.

 

[Kunder]

Vinero, while i think you sharing your experience should be appreciated, i am sorry to say your conclusion is highly speculative and anecdotal. Yes, it could have been related, just as it might not have been at all connected. Hard to draw the firm conclusion that you have arrived at.

That said, there are other reasons to avoid lysine that Peat has written about.

 

[lollipop]

I personally think 6gms is a lot for daily use and I personally would not take that for more than say one week. That seems like a therapeutic dose.

I use lysine 1500mg occasionally with milk at night before sleep to help with sleep if I feel that “stress” like brain symptoms. Within 20 min, calm and sleeping.

Never had any problems taking - have used this for more than 20 yrs. BUT again, sporadic use, not high dose and NEVER daily...

 

[Amazoniac]

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/magnesium-deficiency-a-brief-review.10940/#post-144866

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[Obi-wan]

Nathan Hatch warned against Lysine in his journey to cure his cancer. He just put out a book by the way but also has a blog. @Travis mentioned it being a weak precursor to polyamines. The only supplemental amino acid I take is l-Threonine which blocks methionine and is a pre curser to methylglyoxal. I remember trying it and got a very stuffy nose.

 

[Peatful]

My husband had a similar experience with a recurrent chest infection this winter.
However, his was due to taking the antibiotics with milk.

 

[Amazoniac]

The potential of nitric oxide releasing therapies as antimicrobial agents

 

[Obi-wan]

while NO can boost the antimicrobial function of the respiratory burst,....

 

[Arnold Grape]

Nathan Hatch warned against Lysine in his journey to cure his cancer. He just put out a book by the way but also has a blog. @Travis mentioned it being a weak precursor to polyamines. The only supplemental amino acid I take is l-Threonine which blocks methionine and is a pre curser to methylglyoxal. I remember trying it and got a very stuffy nose.

Doesn't he always talk about how great lysine is, rather? -At any rate, people should apparently be cautious with this amino.

 

[Obi-wan]

He liked it at first then changed his mind

 

[Vinero]

Vinero, while i think you sharing your experience should be appreciated, i am sorry to say your conclusion is highly speculative and anecdotal. Yes, it could have been related, just as it might not have been at all connected. Hard to draw the firm conclusion that you have arrived at.

That said, there are other reasons to avoid lysine that Peat has written about.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15709548
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4335378/

Sepsis is a systemic response to an infection, with high morbidity and mortality rates. Metabolic changes during infection and sepsis could be related to changes in metabolism of the amino acid L-arginine. In sepsis, protein breakdown is increased, which is a key process to maintain arginine delivery because both endogenous de novo arginine production from citrulline and food intake are reduced. Arginine catabolism, on the other hand, is markedly increased by enhanced use of arginine via the arginase and nitric oxide pathways. As a result, lowered plasma arginine levels are usually found. Arginine may therefore be considered as an essential amino acid in sepsis, and supplementation could be beneficial in sepsis by improving microcirculation and protein anabolism. L-Arginine supplementation in a hyperdynamic pig model of sepsis prohibits the increase in pulmonary arterial blood pressure, improves muscle and liver protein metabolism, and restores the intestinal motility pattern. Arguments raised against arginine supplementation are mainly pointed at stimulating nitric oxide (NO) production, with concerns about toxicity of increased NO and hemodynamic instability with refractory hypotension. NO synthase inhibition, however, increased mortality. Arginine supplementation in septic patients has transient effects on hemodynamics when supplied as a bolus but seems without hemodynamic side effects when supplied continuously. In conclusion, arginine could have an essential role in infection and sepsis.

The scientic studies on arginine being very important during infection, combined with the fact that I wasn't healing from my infection suggested to me that arginine-depletion with lysine was the cause of all of this.
Also after I stopped taking the lysine the symptoms of the infection never returned.
What other reasons are there that Peat said to avoid lysine?

 

[Vinero]

Nathan Hatch warned against Lysine in his journey to cure his cancer. He just put out a book by the way but also has a blog. @Travis mentioned it being a weak precursor to polyamines. The only supplemental amino acid I take is l-Threonine which blocks methionine and is a pre curser to methylglyoxal. I remember trying it and got a very stuffy nose.

Interesting. What did Nathan Hatch say about lysine if I may ask? Can I read this somewhere?

 

[Kunder]

Peat said something with artieries, plaque or artery hardening?...along those lines if i remember corectly.

 

[Arnold Grape]

Interesting. What did Nathan Hatch say about lysine if I may ask? Can I read this somewhere?

It's here. (I don't know if this is an edited version of what earlier appeared?)
http://www.fuckportioncontrol.com/blog/2016/6/13/hair-loss-and-hair-return