Warning To People Taking Lysine

[Braveheart]

Just a note...A diet supplying 20 grams of protein provides approximately 1 gram (1000 mg) of L-Lysine, an amino acid building block of protein...you can do the math...

 

[dbh25]

Has anyone experienced ill effects taking 500mg-1g daily?

 

[lollipop]

Has anyone experienced ill effects taking 500mg-1g daily?

I have never found ill effects from that amount but I never take daily (other than what is in food as @bzmazu mentioned. Also, I never take with only water and take with 4-6 oz of milk. To me it feels more whole food like, sort of an enhanced lysine content milk.

 

[dbh25]

I have never found ill effects from that amount but I never take daily (other than what is in food as @bzmazu mentioned. Also, I never take with only water and take with 4-6 oz of milk. To me it feels more whole food like, sort of an enhanced lysine content milk.

Cool, thanks

 

[Braveheart]

Has anyone experienced ill effects taking 500mg-1g daily?

I take 1g daily w my C.....no problem...that's in addition to what I get from diet.

 

[Travis]

I started taking the amino acid l-lysine 2 years ago because I read it reduces anxiety, lowers serotonin, and lowers nitric oxide. It made me feel quite calm and happy when I began taking it, and it seemed to have no negative side effects whatsoever. I took about 6 grams daily, which is the amount used in the studies that showed lowering of nitric oxide. I always took it after eating a protein-rich meal, which blocked arginine absorption (the precursor to nitric oxide). Since I read that nitric oxide speeds up the aging-process and lowering it improves your health, I reasoned that I was going to take this long-term, why not?

Well a few months later I suddenly started feeling really bad. I didn't have any appetite for food, couldn't sleep, I had massive anxiety, chest-pains, and lots of coughing. It felt like I had endotoxin poisoning or something.
I went to the doctor because I felt like I was going to die if I didn't.
I was diagnosed with pneumonia, a bacterial lung infection.
I got a course of antibiotics and felt better right away.
However, a few days after finishing my antibiotics, I started feeling sick again. The same symptoms.
I went to the doctor again, and was diagnosed with pneumonia again.
I got another round of antibiotics, felt better, then after a few days got sick yet again..

At this point I seriously wondered how this is even possible? Who gets an infection three times in a row?
I was a young man who was in otherwise good health, and I was not taking any immunosuppressive drugs.
So I began brain-storming and analyzing my diet and supplements I was taking, hoping to find a solution.
Then I read somewhere that l-arginine is a conditionally essential amino acid, and that it's important to get enough arginine when you have an infection. This is because l-arginine is converted to nitric oxide, which is overproduced in infection to kill the pathogens. If you do not have enough arginine the body fails to produce adequate nitric oxide and the bacteria overwhelm the immune system. Just google "arginine infection" or "arginine immune system" and lots of studies and results pop up.
Since lysine blocks dietary arginine absorption, it looked like I was inducing an arginine deficiency by taking lysine everyday. I immediately stopped taking the lysine, and took one last round of antibiotics.
Since I stopped taking the lysine the symptoms have never returned again, which I am grateful for.

I have learned my lesson, and now I know why Ray doesn't recommend people taking isolated amino acids.
Although arginine is bad in excess, you can get in serious trouble if you deplete arginine totally.
I only eat whole proteins now, I am even cautious about BCAA. Depleting tryptophan, methionine and cysteine might have some unpredictable result just like depleting arginine.

If you'd like to prevent the damage from reactive nitrogen species without restricting it's formation, read this:

Cooney, Robert. "Gamma-tocopherol detoxification of nitrogen dioxide: superiority to alpha-tocopherol." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (1993)​

Lysine can also form polyamines, but those of lower activity compared to ornithine-derived ones. However, lysine-derived polyamines could still be a growth factor for bacteria. You can read about how polyamines catalyze dNA replication here!

Fiedorow, Paweł. "The influence of polyamines on polymerase chain reaction (PCR)." Acta Biochimica Polonica (1997)​

 

[Vinero]

If you'd like to prevent the damage from reactive nitrogen species without restricting it's formation, read this:

Cooney, Robert. "Gamma-tocopherol detoxification of nitrogen dioxide: superiority to alpha-tocopherol." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (1993)​

Lysine can also form polyamines, but those of lower activity compared to ornithine-derived ones. However, lysine-derived polyamines could still be a growth factor for bacteria. You can read about how polyamines catalyze dNA replication here!

Fiedorow, Paweł. "The influence of polyamines on polymerase chain reaction (PCR)." Acta Biochimica Polonica (1997)​

Thanks, I take Whole E from Healthnatura, which is mixed tocopherols with a high gamma content.
Seems like a good choice for people wanting to get more Gamma tocopherol.

Supplement Facts:
Serving size: 3 pumps
Servings per container: Approximately 55
Total mixed tocopherols 928mg
Alpha tocopherol 142 i.u. (95mg) 633%*
Beta tocopherol 19mg**
Gamma tocopherol 557mg**
Delta tocopherol 257mg**

 

[SOMO]

Lysine is commonly used as an anti-Herpes remedy (internally and topically) so I find it unlikely OP experienced immune suppression. And of course viruses and bacterial pathogens respond differently to all manner of antimicrobials. There's also different forms of NO, likely with different capability to sterilize pathogens, but arginine/citrulline may raise the "bad" NO just as much as good NO which sterilizes the respiratory tract.

Realistically, isolated amino acids seem a bit unnatural and possibly behave in ways that eating high-Lysine foods wouldn't. Also food processing destroys specifically lysine as far as glycation or AGEs are concerned.

 

[Ideonaut]

I started taking the amino acid l-lysine 2 years ago because I read it reduces anxiety, lowers serotonin, and lowers nitric oxide. It made me feel quite calm and happy when I began taking it, and it seemed to have no negative side effects whatsoever. I took about 6 grams daily, which is the amount used in the studies that showed lowering of nitric oxide. I always took it after eating a protein-rich meal, which blocked arginine absorption (the precursor to nitric oxide). Since I read that nitric oxide speeds up the aging-process and lowering it improves your health, I reasoned that I was going to take this long-term, why not?

Well a few months later I suddenly started feeling really bad. I didn't have any appetite for food, couldn't sleep, I had massive anxiety, chest-pains, and lots of coughing. It felt like I had endotoxin poisoning or something.
I went to the doctor because I felt like I was going to die if I didn't.
I was diagnosed with pneumonia, a bacterial lung infection.
I got a course of antibiotics and felt better right away.
However, a few days after finishing my antibiotics, I started feeling sick again. The same symptoms.
I went to the doctor again, and was diagnosed with pneumonia again.
I got another round of antibiotics, felt better, then after a few days got sick yet again..

At this point I seriously wondered how this is even possible? Who gets an infection three times in a row?
I was a young man who was in otherwise good health, and I was not taking any immunosuppressive drugs.
So I began brain-storming and analyzing my diet and supplements I was taking, hoping to find a solution.
Then I read somewhere that l-arginine is a conditionally essential amino acid, and that it's important to get enough arginine when you have an infection. This is because l-arginine is converted to nitric oxide, which is overproduced in infection to kill the pathogens. If you do not have enough arginine the body fails to produce adequate nitric oxide and the bacteria overwhelm the immune system. Just google "arginine infection" or "arginine immune system" and lots of studies and results pop up.
Since lysine blocks dietary arginine absorption, it looked like I was inducing an arginine deficiency by taking lysine everyday. I immediately stopped taking the lysine, and took one last round of antibiotics.
Since I stopped taking the lysine the symptoms have never returned again, which I am grateful for.

I have learned my lesson, and now I know why Ray doesn't recommend people taking isolated amino acids.
Although arginine is bad in excess, you can get in serious trouble if you deplete arginine totally.
I only eat whole proteins now, I am even cautious about BCAA. Depleting tryptophan, methionine and cysteine might have some unpredictable result just like depleting arginine.

hmm . . . I was thinking of trying Linus Pauling's protocol of vitamin C + lysine to prevent heart disease. PaulingTherapy.com - Reversing Heart Disease w/o Drugs is Possible . He says 5 grams a day of both. Here's a doctor who says he started taking the combo after a heart attack at 74 and is now 90. He apparently didn't have the negative side effects you did. (On the other hand, he is pushing a product.) I'll have to look into it more and go into it gingerly if I do it at all. Comments, anyone?

 

[sladerunner69]

It was this Nathan's post about lysine's strong anti-depressive property which made me try it. I can confirm that it has very profound mood lifting effect. I would say within 10-20 minutes you could feel it's strong anti-serotonin action - no more aggression, no more panicky mood. But I would not relay exclusively on lysine on a long run. Instead, I would try to use mixture of substances to lower serotonin - cypro, ginger, aspirin, thyroid, carrots and occasional lysine etc.

Now, I'm not an expert with doses, but I think 6 grams is an excess. What did you want to achieve with that amount of lysine?

How does ginger lower serotonin, exactly? I haven't heard of this effect from ginger before. I have heard it is a reliable anti-inflammatory, though.

 

[Mossy]

How does ginger lower serotonin, exactly? I haven't heard of this effect from ginger before. I have heard it is a reliable anti-inflammatory, though.

I would be interested in this, as well.

I do know that I crave ginger, so maybe there something to that — my need to lower serotonin. But, if I understand correctly, a load of ginger could potentially thin your blood.

 

[LCohen]

You guys overdosing every stuff and then blame & label it.

LOL just LOL..

 

[Pulstar]

How does ginger lower serotonin, exactly? I haven't heard of this effect from ginger before. I have heard it is a reliable anti-inflammatory, though.

Good question, but I don't have any solid proofs. Have you seen this thread? Posts #14 and 15 there have some studies. To me, it's not so clear. Ginger has some anti-serotonin properties, but it's also a partial agonist (Such_Saturation comment)? I've mentioned it, cos it was mentioned somewhere else, but I did not do any deep digging myself. Ginger is generally regarded as something beneficial for your stomach, perhaps this makes it "anti-serotonin". My personal observation - eating raw ginger or drinking tea with ginger improves my mood a bit.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Good question, but I don't have any solid proofs. Have you seen this thread? Posts #14 and 15 there have some studies. To me, it's not so clear. Ginger has some anti-serotonin properties, but it's also a partial agonist (Such_Saturation comment)? I've mentioned it, cos it was mentioned somewhere else, but I did not do any deep digging myself. Ginger is generally regarded as something beneficial for your stomach, perhaps this makes it "anti-serotonin". My personal observation - eating raw ginger or drinking tea with ginger improves my mood a bit.

I think someone said the pro serotonin effects happen at high concentrations. Probably @haidut if I remember correctly.

 

[Lokzo]

6 grams is ridiculously high?

 

[Kray]

Peat said something with artieries, plaque or artery hardening?...along those lines if i remember corectly.

Great discussion on lysine. I've been taking it with zinc for cold sores, but only 1g at most per day. While reading up on lysine supplementation, I found an article which cautions overuse of lysine because it can cause uptake of calcium which may increase cholesterol and triclycerides, hence arterial effect. Not sure if a research study was cited, but perhaps this is what Peat was referring to?

 

[Hans]

Lysine is a potent competitive inhibitor of liver arginase, an enzyme responsible for the conversion of arginine into ornithine and urea in the urea cycle. The inhibition of arginase by excess lysine could therefore reduce the efficiency of the urea cycle leading to accumulation of ammonia, increased excretion of orotic acid and, consequently, signs and symptoms of toxicity.

 

[magnesiumania]

So i had 3gX2 yesterday and i felt pretty good. However i could not sleep and i usually dont have any problem with that. Or in fact latly ive been exerpiencing flashbacks upon falling asleep, from an episode of high neurotoxicity and trauma. But i usually fall asleep after occasional bursts of anxiety. What the hell is up with lysine and me? I went to bed 3 times and was wide awake and even had very schozophrenia-like sensations (and i thought lysine was supposed to help anxiety etc)

 

[magnesiumania]

Lysine is a potent competitive inhibitor of liver arginase, an enzyme responsible for the conversion of arginine into ornithine and urea in the urea cycle. The inhibition of arginase by excess lysine could therefore reduce the efficiency of the urea cycle leading to accumulation of ammonia, increased excretion of orotic acid and, consequently, signs and symptoms of toxicity.

Thanks for leading me on to ammonia. Ive been researching the urea cycle. I had a ultra traumatic event about 1.5 year ago where i felt poisoned and insane and ammonia poisoning makes a lot of sense. As i understand it ammonia (as ammonium) can increase glutamine which is osmotically active. Meaning it can pull water. In the case of ammonia poisoning (urea cycle defect) it can pull water into the brain (from the bloodstream). This leads to cerebral edema and intercranial preasure. And in worst case: comatose. I survived this but ive felt impaired cognitivly ever since.

 

[Dave Clark]

Peat said something with artieries, plaque or artery hardening?...along those lines if i remember corectly.

Probably because lysine is supposed to improve calcium absorption, but wouldn't K2 prevent any problems with that?