Is Coq10 Any Good?

[Steve123]

Hi,
In my research to tackle peyronies disease coq10 keeps popping up. what is the scope on this here? Is it safe? Is there a better type? A better brand?

I don't really want to be taken any of these things but got to weigh things up and Peyronies disease is of priority right now.

I'm in my early twenties.

Thanks!

 

[not_James_Bond]

At your age I don't think you are going to notice much with peyronie's particularly, COq10 and the 'reduced' form Ubiquinol are more beneficial for ages +30 Years of age.

If you try it stay at maximum of 200mg and take it in the morning, it can cause insomnia taken later in the day, and buy it with the minimum or no additives.

 

[Steve123]

At your age I don't think you are going to notice much with peyronie's particularly, COq10 and the 'reduced' form Ubiquinol are more beneficial for ages +30 Years of age.

If you try it stay at maximum of 200mg and take it in the morning, it can cause insomnia taken later in the day, and buy it with the minimum or no additives.

So would you say that my natural levels are high enough at my age and theres no use for it mate?

It just seems to be recommended so much on the Pey forums

 

[not_James_Bond]

So would you say that my natural levels are high enough at my age and theres no use for it mate?

It just seems to be recommended so much on the Pey forums

Steve, If your digestion is good then chicken, beef and fish can provide enough COq10 for your age, but I know you are struggling sometimes with GI issues (might be stress related btw).
If I was your age I would concentrate on your digestion and get it as good as you can with a varied diet, pity you can't tolerate dairy, but we've had that discussion elsewhere.

 

[Pablo Cruise]

CoQ10 works by increasing blood flow to the heart if I remember correctly. I believe it is universally accepted to help the heart perfusion. I take 100mg but higher doses 200 or 300mg are recommended by some if there is heart problems, valve replacement, arrhythmia, etc....that is my understanding. How much it helps is not clear but efficacious.
Please update me if I am forgetting something.

 

[Steve123]

Steve, If your digestion is good then chicken, beef and fish can provide enough COq10 for your age, but I know you are struggling sometimes with GI issues (might be stress related btw).
If I was your age I would concentrate on your digestion and get it as good as you can with a varied diet, pity you can't tolerate dairy, but we've had that discussion elsewhere.

Yeah i really do think my diet is down to tee (Apart from not being able to consume dairy), I do regularly eat beef/fish/chicken but i've read that beef only provides like 3.5mg of coq10 compared to the amounts in coq10 pills of 50-300mg.. Money is not an issue, but is there any negatives to me taking say a lower dose 50-100mg of coq10 a day? Even if it has a tiny benefit i'm happy to take it in combo with other things i am doing as long as there is no negatives to it.

Looking at the improvement board on the PD forum, it seems it's always part of someones regime.

Thanks Paul!

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Alterations in the transforming growth factor (TGF)-β pathway as a potential factor in the pathogenesis of Peyronie’s disease
Simone M Haag, Ekkehard W Hauck, Carolin Szardening-Kirchner, Thorsten Diemer, Eun-Sook Cha, Wolfgang Weidner, Oliver Eickelberg
European urology 51 (1), 255-261, 2007
Objectives
The development of fibrotic diseases is associated with alterations in the transforming growth factor β (TGF-β) pathway. We have investigated the expression and activity of Smad transcription factors of the TGF-β pathway in primary tunical fibroblasts derived from patients with Peyronie’s disease and from controls.
Methods
Primary fibroblasts were established from biopsies obtained from plaques of 16 patients with Peyronie’s disease or the tunica albuginea of 8 control patients. The expression and activity of Smad transcription factors in control and TGF-β–stimulated primary fibroblasts were investigated at the RNA and protein level by reverse transcription-polymerase chain reaction, Western blotting, and immunofluorescence.
Results
RNA expression levels of Smad3 and Smad4 were significantly increased in fibroblasts from patients with Peyronie’s disease. When stimulated with TGF-β1, fibroblasts showed rapid nuclear translocation of Smad2/3, as soon as 15 min after stimulation. This effect was more pronounced and exhibited an earlier onset in fibroblasts from patients with Peyronie’s disease, compared with controls. In addition, an increased nuclear retention time of Smad4 was observed in fibroblasts from patients with Peyronie’s disease.
Conclusions
The expression and activity of Smad transcription factors of the TGF-β pathway is increased in fibroblasts of patients with Peyronie’s disease. Alterations in the TGF-β pathway seem to be a pathogenetic factor in the development of Peyronie’s disease.



..Previous studies have demonstrated that an increase in dietary NaCl (salt) intake stimulated endothelial cells to produce transforming growth factor-β (TGF-β).

Maybe reduce total sodium (Na) intake over the course of 1 month down to 1000mg? Coenzyme Q10 is mostly fine, if it has not any disturbing fillers like MCC or TiO2.

 

[Steve123]

Alterations in the transforming growth factor (TGF)-β pathway as a potential factor in the pathogenesis of Peyronie’s disease
Simone M Haag, Ekkehard W Hauck, Carolin Szardening-Kirchner, Thorsten Diemer, Eun-Sook Cha, Wolfgang Weidner, Oliver Eickelberg
European urology 51 (1), 255-261, 2007
Objectives
The development of fibrotic diseases is associated with alterations in the transforming growth factor β (TGF-β) pathway. We have investigated the expression and activity of Smad transcription factors of the TGF-β pathway in primary tunical fibroblasts derived from patients with Peyronie’s disease and from controls.
Methods
Primary fibroblasts were established from biopsies obtained from plaques of 16 patients with Peyronie’s disease or the tunica albuginea of 8 control patients. The expression and activity of Smad transcription factors in control and TGF-β–stimulated primary fibroblasts were investigated at the RNA and protein level by reverse transcription-polymerase chain reaction, Western blotting, and immunofluorescence.
Results
RNA expression levels of Smad3 and Smad4 were significantly increased in fibroblasts from patients with Peyronie’s disease. When stimulated with TGF-β1, fibroblasts showed rapid nuclear translocation of Smad2/3, as soon as 15 min after stimulation. This effect was more pronounced and exhibited an earlier onset in fibroblasts from patients with Peyronie’s disease, compared with controls. In addition, an increased nuclear retention time of Smad4 was observed in fibroblasts from patients with Peyronie’s disease.
Conclusions
The expression and activity of Smad transcription factors of the TGF-β pathway is increased in fibroblasts of patients with Peyronie’s disease. Alterations in the TGF-β pathway seem to be a pathogenetic factor in the development of Peyronie’s disease.



..Previous studies have demonstrated that an increase in dietary NaCl (salt) intake stimulated endothelial cells to produce transforming growth factor-β (TGF-β).

Maybe reduce total sodium (Na) intake over the course of 1 month down to 1000mg? Coenzyme Q10 is mostly fine, if it has not any disturbing fillers like MCC or TiO2.

Hmmm interesting i do actually consume a lot of salt.. I'll try less... and great! DO you have any recommednations for brands of Coq10 and which type is the best out of the two? Ubiquinol - ubiquinone ??

Thanks!

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Hmmm interesting i do actually consume a lot of salt.. I'll try less... and great! DO you have any recommednations for brands of Coq10 and which type is the best out of the two? Ubiquinol - ubiquinone ??

Thanks!

Decrease Salt steadily over the course of one month, maybe buy a scale. I do not know the differences any longer from the top of my head in regard to Q10.

 

[Wilfrid]

I never used CoQ10 supplements but if I have to, I will, and without any kind of hesitation, give my preference to PharmaNord CoQ10 (ubiquinone).
It has been the reference product in most of the studies involving CoQ10 therapeutic use.
It has soybean oil in it, but the benefits clearly outweigh the risk.

 

[not_James_Bond]

@Wilfrid Yeah, Pharmanord from Denmark is a long established quality supplier, available in the UK from several suppliers

 

[Steve123]

So is Ubiquinone or Ubiquinol better? Cost is not an issue, I want the best quality possible. Regardless i'm going to start on 100mg probably and then go up to 200mg if my body is happy with the 100mg..

And that pharmanord brand of Q10 has a lot of filler ingredients :/

 

[not_James_Bond]

Steve,
Ubiquinol, which is the reduced form, is better than ubiquinone for bioavailability. As long as it has Kaneka Ubiquinol your good to go, this one looks good with minimal additions = https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ubiquinol-Softgels-Fermented-bio-Identical-Absorption/dp/B07DBC7BG6/ref=sr_1_9?crid=236KTNQNLIB04&dchild=1&keywords=ubiquinol+100mg&qid=1598280724&sprefix=ubiquinol,aps,172&sr=8-9

Oh and Steve, please update this thread in the weeks to come on whether you like it, or not.
Paul.

 

[Steve123]

Steve,
Ubiquinol, which is the reduced form, is better than ubiquinone for bioavailability. As long as it has Kaneka Ubiquinol your good to go, this one looks good with minimal additions = https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ubiquinol-Softgels-Fermented-bio-Identical-Absorption/dp/B07DBC7BG6/ref=sr_1_9?crid=236KTNQNLIB04&dchild=1&keywords=ubiquinol+100mg&qid=1598280724&sprefix=ubiquinol,aps,172&sr=8-9

Oh and Steve, please update this thread in the weeks to come on whether you like it, or not.
Paul.

Yeah just did a good bit of reading about it and it seems Ubquinol is much more superior, especially the Kaneka.. But you see so many still recommend (Including ray peat, because of some interaction with iron) the average ubiquinone (especially if one is younger), Is the recommendations really just from the fact that it is much cheaper to use the ubiquinone? Is that the only real benefit?

I think the studies i have seen on Coq10 seemed to be using the Kaneka type which is always Ubiquinol right? "At baseline (week 0), the patients were randomly assigned to take 300 mg of CoQ10 (Kaneka, Osaka, Japan) orally daily" Safety and efficacy of coenzyme Q 10 supplementation in early chronic Peyronie's disease: a double-blind, placebo-controlled randomized study | International Journal of Impotence Research

I definitely will Paul!

 

[Wilfrid]

So is Ubiquinone or Ubiquinol better? Cost is not an issue, I want the best quality possible. Regardless i'm going to start on 100mg probably and then go up to 200mg if my body is happy with the 100mg..

And that pharmanord brand of Q10 has a lot of filler ingredients :/

The nasty fillers are part of the capsule raw material which can be easily discarded by squeezing the content out of the capsule.
The soybean oil is protected from rancidity by the added vitamin E (with a very effective IU concentration per gram).
Anyway, it’s up to you.

 

[Whichway?]

So is Ubiquinone or Ubiquinol better? Cost is not an issue, I want the best quality possible. Regardless i'm going to start on 100mg probably and then go up to 200mg if my body is happy with the 100mg..

And that pharmanord brand of Q10 has a lot of filler ingredients :/

I would go for the reduced form ubiquinol, since it functions as the better anti-oxidant than ubiquinone.

I have found Thorne Research products and Pure Encapsulations to be as good as you can hope for in terms of limiting fillers and binders and such in their preparations. I couldn’t tell from the Thorne website whether they are using the Kanaka Q10, but the Pure Encapsulations line is.

 

[johnwester130]

Steve,
Ubiquinol, which is the reduced form, is better than ubiquinone for bioavailability. As long as it has Kaneka Ubiquinol your good to go, this one looks good with minimal additions = https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ubiquinol-Softgels-Fermented-bio-Identical-Absorption/dp/B07DBC7BG6/ref=sr_1_9?crid=236KTNQNLIB04&dchild=1&keywords=ubiquinol+100mg&qid=1598280724&sprefix=ubiquinol,aps,172&sr=8-9

Oh and Steve, please update this thread in the weeks to come on whether you like it, or not.
Paul.

thanks for this

i am adding ubiquinol to my regimen

 

[not_James_Bond]

thanks for this

i am adding ubiquinol to my regimen

@johnwester130 Your welcome, please update thread if you try it and @Steve123 What about an update?

 

[AsuraAcademy]

Alterations in the transforming growth factor (TGF)-β pathway as a potential factor in the pathogenesis of Peyronie’s disease
Simone M Haag, Ekkehard W Hauck, Carolin Szardening-Kirchner, Thorsten Diemer, Eun-Sook Cha, Wolfgang Weidner, Oliver Eickelberg
European urology 51 (1), 255-261, 2007
Objectives
The development of fibrotic diseases is associated with alterations in the transforming growth factor β (TGF-β) pathway. We have investigated the expression and activity of Smad transcription factors of the TGF-β pathway in primary tunical fibroblasts derived from patients with Peyronie’s disease and from controls.
Methods
Primary fibroblasts were established from biopsies obtained from plaques of 16 patients with Peyronie’s disease or the tunica albuginea of 8 control patients. The expression and activity of Smad transcription factors in control and TGF-β–stimulated primary fibroblasts were investigated at the RNA and protein level by reverse transcription-polymerase chain reaction, Western blotting, and immunofluorescence.
Results
RNA expression levels of Smad3 and Smad4 were significantly increased in fibroblasts from patients with Peyronie’s disease. When stimulated with TGF-β1, fibroblasts showed rapid nuclear translocation of Smad2/3, as soon as 15 min after stimulation. This effect was more pronounced and exhibited an earlier onset in fibroblasts from patients with Peyronie’s disease, compared with controls. In addition, an increased nuclear retention time of Smad4 was observed in fibroblasts from patients with Peyronie’s disease.
Conclusions
The expression and activity of Smad transcription factors of the TGF-β pathway is increased in fibroblasts of patients with Peyronie’s disease. Alterations in the TGF-β pathway seem to be a pathogenetic factor in the development of Peyronie’s disease.



..Previous studies have demonstrated that an increase in dietary NaCl (salt) intake stimulated endothelial cells to produce transforming growth factor-β (TGF-β).

Maybe reduce total sodium (Na) intake over the course of 1 month down to 1000mg? Coenzyme Q10 is mostly fine, if it has not any disturbing fillers like MCC or TiO2.

Dude, Peat recommends high sodium intake and you are saying opposite...

 

[Inaut]

@haidut did you say ubiquinone was cheaper and better than ubiquinol on yesterday's podcast with danny?