Berberine For Improving Insulin Sensitivity? If Not, What Works Best?

[KyleKingsly]

I'm fairly certain I have pretty bad insulin resistance based on my high fasting blood sugars and A1C (I have pre-diabetes that I'm pretty concerned about), along with the fact that it's incredibly difficult for me to get to the point of feeling satisfied after a meal. I'm pretty sure there's some degree of fatty liver going on too given that I've gained a ton of weight (50+ lbs) in the past year and feel like my ability to store glycogen is highly compromised because I keep waking up after 6 or less hours of sleep feeling shaky and hungry.

I think my insulin resistance is the most important issue for me to fix right now because it's really destroying my ability to sleep, focus, and eat in a healthy way. So I've been doing a ton of research on the best ways to improve insulin sensitivity and one very promising suggestion I've found is berberine. It's pretty similar to metformin which I know is highly looked down upon here and is a "metabolic toxin" according to @haidut so I am somewhat hesitant about it.

It apparently inhibits mitochondrial 1 complex, lowers the NAD/NADH ratio, and inhibits lactate dehydrogenase and pyruvate dehydrogenase. I don't really understand the precise science behind all of that beyond the fact that all of those things seem to be pretty important for metabolism. However, I'm wondering if I can avoid some of the damage berberine might cause by using things like CoQ10, Energin, and Pansterone (among other things). Also, Berberine apparently protects against metformin induced lactic acidosis, so I'm guessing it's not nearly as bad as metformin in the lactic acid department. Berberine protects against metformin-associated lactic acidosis in induced diabetes mellitus

On the other band, berberine is supposed to be really good at blocking the creation of new fat, nutrient partitioning, meaning that glucose gets into the muscles and not stored as fat, reversing fatty liver, improving gut health, and strongly boosting insulin sensitivity. It seems like it could really benefit me so I'd really like to give it a try if y'all think it's safe.

If not, what are the strongest things you would suggest for boosting insulin sensitivity? I've seen aspirin and niacinamide mentioned here a lot but I've also heard that they can hinder fat loss which I don't think would be good for my fatty liver or my overall health. Suggestions for strong things that can help me eat less while feeling more satisfied and most importantly sleep through the night would be greatly appreciated. I can only afford to buy one supplement for around $35 or so right now so I'm really trying to get the most value for my money.

Thanks so much! Any and all advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[lampofred]

Don't know about berberine, but aspirin and coffee worked well for me to improve insulin sensitivity. I think a bit of fat gain is inevitable when fixing insulin resistance because you will have to turn off fat oxidation, but coffee, vit K, gelatin should protect the liver. My fasting glucose went from 147 to 88 as a result of daily 2 325-mg aspirins (with vit K to prevent bleeding) and 5-10 cups of coffee daily for 2 years. 147 -> 121 after a year, then 121 -> 88. It's probably even lower now, it's been a year since I've checked. And I'm eating more carbs/sugar than ever.

 

[teds]

When I was keto and my insulin was going up and up I started taking berberine- it worked well and quickly for me. Within 6 weeks of retesting my insulin halved.

 

[danishispsychic]

If you take Berberine, you will find out for sure if and what kind of parasite infection you have . Good times.

 

[olive]

Berberine may ruin DNA repair. There’s much safer ways to lower insulin resistance; intermittent fasting, low fat, exercise, increasing muscle tissue, caffeine, sufficient chromium, high potassium diet, etc.

 

[KyleKingsly]

Don't know about berberine, but aspirin and coffee worked well for me to improve insulin sensitivity. I think a bit of fat gain is inevitable when fixing insulin resistance because you will have to turn off fat oxidation, but coffee, vit K, gelatin should protect the liver. My fasting glucose went from 147 to 88 as a result of daily 2 325-mg aspirins (with vit K to prevent bleeding) and 5-10 cups of coffee daily for 2 years. 147 -> 121 after a year, then 121 -> 88. It's probably even lower now, it's been a year since I've checked. And I'm eating more carbs/sugar than ever.

Those are some great results you got there in terms of FG, but won't shutting down FAO hurt my weight loss efforts? I have a ton of fat I need to lose and I'm pretty sure that body fat is a big cause of insulin resistance (and fatty liver) in and of itself. It makes sense to me because my hunger and inability to be satisfied after eating has gotten increasingly worse over the past year as I gained more and more weight. I understand that shutting down FAO improves insulin resistance by turning oxidative metabolism back on, but I think haidut has said that if you have a fatty liver, you need to force past the fat burning stage before you should take aspirin and/or niacinamide.

Plus I really would hate to gain any more weight, I already hate the way I look now and I'm pretty sure any fat gain will make my health worse too. I can't really tolerate caffeine in general, at least from traditional sources like coffee or tea, it really stresses me out and spikes my anxiety like mad.

 

[KyleKingsly]

When I was keto and my insulin was going up and up I started taking berberine- it worked well and quickly for me. Within 6 weeks of retesting my insulin halved.

Thanks for the report! So you didn't get any bad side effects like diarrhea, hypoglycemia, or anything like that? Did the results last after you stopped taking it, and did you get any kind of rebound in insulin?

 

[KyleKingsly]

Berberine may ruin DNA repair. There’s much safer ways to lower insulin resistance; intermittent fasting, low fat, exercise, increasing muscle tissue, caffeine, sufficient chromium, high potassium diet, etc.

I appreciate the recommendations but I'm already doing the first 4 and they're not nearly enough. I don't tolerate caffeine well in general as I said and I think I get a good amount of potassium from bananas. I guess with the DNA damage recommendation you're referring to stuff like this? - https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2015/796306/. It seems like the damage was caused by using high doses there, so maybe in moderation it's ok?

Anyway, it seems to have so many mechanisms that would help me that I think I'm going to go for it as everyone seems to have good experiences with it anecdotally and it seems to be one of the best options for my current situation. No one has addressed the safety concerns I raised in my original post so I don't know what to make of them but I'm prob going to forge ahead with it.

 

[olive]

I appreciate the recommendations but I'm already doing the first 4 and they're not nearly enough. I don't tolerate caffeine well in general as I said and I think I get a good amount of potassium from bananas. I guess with the DNA damage recommendation you're referring to stuff like this? - https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2015/796306/. It seems like the damage was caused by using high doses there, so maybe in moderation it's ok?

Anyway, it seems to have so many mechanisms that would help me that I think I'm going to go for it as everyone seems to have good experiences with it anecdotally and it seems to be one of the best options for my current situation. No one has addressed the safety concerns I raised in my original post so I don't know what to make of them but I'm prob going to forge ahead with it.

The fact you don’t know how much potassium you’re getting means your probably not tracking with chronometer. Try that first. Fix any nutrient deficiencies and see how that goes.

 

[lampofred]

Those are some great results you got there in terms of FG, but won't shutting down FAO hurt my weight loss efforts? I have a ton of fat I need to lose and I'm pretty sure that body fat is a big cause of insulin resistance (and fatty liver) in and of itself. It makes sense to me because my hunger and inability to be satisfied after eating has gotten increasingly worse over the past year as I gained more and more weight. I understand that shutting down FAO improves insulin resistance by turning oxidative metabolism back on, but I think haidut has said that if you have a fatty liver, you need to force past the fat burning stage before you should take aspirin and/or niacinamide.

Plus I really would hate to gain any more weight, I already hate the way I look now and I'm pretty sure any fat gain will make my health worse too. I can't really tolerate caffeine in general, at least from traditional sources like coffee or tea, it really stresses me out and spikes my anxiety like mad.

It probably will. I ended up gaining some weight as my FG got better. Weight lifting/building muscle would probably allow you to improve insulin sensitivity while losing weight at the same time since muscle burns fat at rest. Also I don't really know how this works, but I think Dr. Peat said coconut oil and vitamin E somehow manage to both reduce lipid peroxidation and reduce fat at the same time.

 

[teds]

Thanks for the report! So you didn't get any bad side effects like diarrhea, hypoglycemia, or anything like that? Did the results last after you stopped taking it, and did you get any kind of rebound in insulin?

I didn’t have any side effects like you mentioned. To be fair I was only using it while ‘keto’.. I probably should have used it when I introduced carbs back into the diet but I didn’t. My insulin went up a bit when I introduced carbs as evident by some fat gain in lower abdo region but changing back slowly. I haven’t tested but probably should. I will say that fasting, as suggested by someone above, was the worst thing for me and insulin levels.

 

[KyleKingsly]

Thanks guys, yes I'm doing the big man on campus weight lifting plan from bodybuilding.com which should help me build muscle mass as fast as possible. I also have thought vitamin E would be really helpful for a while and there's actually a good amount in the CoQsol-cf softgels I'm taking! I would love to incorporate more coconut oil but unfortunately I'm stuck at home rn while job hunting and my mom is convinced all that saturated fat is the devil...I'm trying to convince her but she's very stubborn about these things.

Intermittent fasting seems to be helping a lot so far too, I don't think I'm in a big caloric deficit from it because I have two massive meals where I feel pretty satisfied afterwards, it just helps me not overeat like I would with 3 meals. Still, my weight seems to be going up slowly so I think I'm gonna try the Berberine soon and look for other insulin sensitizing herbs and supplements as well.

 

[graciousxx]

Thanks guys, yes I'm doing the big man on campus weight lifting plan from bodybuilding.com which should help me build muscle mass as fast as possible. I also have thought vitamin E would be really helpful for a while and there's actually a good amount in the CoQsol-cf softgels I'm taking! I would love to incorporate more coconut oil but unfortunately I'm stuck at home rn while job hunting and my mom is convinced all that saturated fat is the devil...I'm trying to convince her but she's very stubborn about these things.

Intermittent fasting seems to be helping a lot so far too, I don't think I'm in a big caloric deficit from it because I have two massive meals where I feel pretty satisfied afterwards, it just helps me not overeat like I would with 3 meals. Still, my weight seems to be going up slowly so I think I'm gonna try the Berberine soon and look for other insulin sensitizing herbs and supplements as well.

Update? How did it go?

I'm looking into berberine for myself too as I have gained an ungodly amount of weight since eating pro-metabolic for the last 3 years when I was already a little overweight before that (I have PCOS from being on the pill for 12 years and trying to be keto/yo-yo dieting but have put most of the symptoms into remission with diet, supplements, and lifestyle changes). I thought maybe it would eventually even out and the weight would "drop off" as I improved my metabolism but that didn't happen (I consistently have decent temps and resting pulses). I gained about 35 pounds in a year and then plateaued for the last two years until I got fed up of being overweight and incorporated a mild calorie deficit about 2 months ago now (about 20% of maintenance so I'm not starving). I've been successful at losing about 10 pounds now since then but I need to lose another 25ish pounds before I will begin to feel more comfortable in my body again. Honestly, for more favorable body composition, I should probably lose an additional 45 pounds from where I am now. Anyway, just looking into berberine as a tool to help me accomplish this. I know it wouldn't be a magic bullet or anything but anything to help me get there because I agree with you that until my weight comes to a better place, I'm going to continue to struggle with hormonal imbalances/insulin resistance/etc. I think I remember reading somewhere that Peat even said that excessive body fat can contribute to estrogen dominance and poor thyroid function etc.

 

[Sampa]

Intermitent fasting + low carb high protein diet + Lift weights everyday + high androgens levels

 

[Katty]

Don't know about berberine, but aspirin and coffee worked well for me to improve insulin sensitivity. I think a bit of fat gain is inevitable when fixing insulin resistance because you will have to turn off fat oxidation, but coffee, vit K, gelatin should protect the liver. My fasting glucose went from 147 to 88 as a result of daily 2 325-mg aspirins (with vit K to prevent bleeding) and 5-10 cups of coffee daily for 2 years. 147 -> 121 after a year, then 121 -> 88. It's probably even lower now, it's been a year since I've checked. And I'm eating more carbs/sugar than ever.

@lampofred Hi Lampofred. I know this is an older post, but I'm wondering if you've managed to keep your blood sugars in a good range. Anything else you did at the time, or are doing now, that has helped keep blood sugar in range, or was it primarily the aspirin and coffee? Were you keeping starch low? How many calories per day, etc? Thanks