High Dose Of Caffeine-sluggish, Constipation, Weakness, Exhaustion

[aguilaroja]

I have no idea if my idea about serotonin is right... but I wonder if blocking serotonin blocks an important function of serotonin, which is helping to empty out the bowels. I definitely felt more "backed up" and "clogged up" when I was taking cypro. I love how low serotonin feels... but I think I have high serotonin because something else is fked up in my body, and the serotonin is to try to fix that or something.

fredsonoma's thoughts and experiences about serotonin raised several important points. I'll aim to keep things brief, or let others move the discussion to a different thread. answersfound made a post for specific problem solving.

First, in "serotonin syndrome" very elevated serotonin states, diarrhea is often found. So it is plausible that lowering serotonin could slow gut motility.

Second, while it is clear that large amounts of serotonin are present in the gut, a lot of the specific roles are far from clarified by responsible scientists.

Third, a useful physiologic action, say, gut motility, can be stimulated by sustainable paths (abundant metabolic energy) or less sustainable ones (emergency metabolic energy response to inflammation/irritation)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19361459
Role of serotonin in gastrointestinal motility and irritable bowel syndrome.
Sikander A1, Rana SV, Prasad KK.
Clin Chim Acta. 2009 May;403(1-2):47-55. doi: 10.1016/j.cca.2009.01.028. Epub 2009 Feb 4.

"Serotonin (5-HT) is an important signaling molecule in the gut targeting enterocytes, smooth muscles and enteric neurons."
"Tegaserod, 5-HT(4) partial agonist is used in constipation predominant IBS while alosetron, a 5-HT(3) antagonist used in IBS with diarrhea."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23797870
Serotonin signalling in the gut--functions, dysfunctions and therapeutic targets.
Mawe GM1, Hoffman JM.
Nat Rev Gastroenterol Hepatol. 2013 Aug;10(8):473-86. doi: 10.1038/nrgastro.2013.105. Epub 2013 Jun 25.

"Conventional functions of 5-HT involving intrinsic reflexes include stimulation of propulsive and segmentation motility patterns, epithelial secretion and vasodilation. Activation of extrinsic vagal and spinal afferent fibres results in slowed gastric emptying, pancreatic secretion, satiation, pain and discomfort, as well as nausea and vomiting. Within the gut, 5-HT also exerts nonconventional actions such as promoting inflammation and serving as a trophic factor to promote the development and maintenance of neurons and interstitial cells of Cajal."

"5-HT3 receptor antagonists and 5-HT4 receptor agonists have been used to treat functional disorders with diarrhoea or constipation, respectively,..."

 

[answersfound]

I have no idea if my idea about serotonin is right... but I wonder if blocking serotonin blocks an important function of serotonin, which is helping to empty out the bowels. I definitely felt more "backed up" and "clogged up" when I was taking cypro. I love how low serotonin feels... but I think I have high serotonin because something else is fked up in my body, and the serotonin is to try to fix that or something.

fredsonoma's thoughts and experiences about serotonin raised several important points. I'll aim to keep things brief, or let others move the discussion to a different thread. answersfound made a post for specific problem solving.

First, in "serotonin syndrome" very elevated serotonin states, diarrhea is often found. So it is plausible that lowering serotonin could slow gut motility.

Second, while it is clear that large amounts of serotonin are present in the gut, a lot of the specific roles are far from clarified by responsible scientists.

Third, a useful physiologic action, say, gut motility, can be stimulated by sustainable paths (abundant metabolic energy) or less sustainable ones (emergency metabolic energy response to inflammation/irritation)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19361459
Role of serotonin in gastrointestinal motility and irritable bowel syndrome.
Sikander A1, Rana SV, Prasad KK.
Clin Chim Acta. 2009 May;403(1-2):47-55. doi: 10.1016/j.cca.2009.01.028. Epub 2009 Feb 4.

"Serotonin (5-HT) is an important signaling molecule in the gut targeting enterocytes, smooth muscles and enteric neurons."
"Tegaserod, 5-HT(4) partial agonist is used in constipation predominant IBS while alosetron, a 5-HT(3) antagonist used in IBS with diarrhea."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23797870
Serotonin signalling in the gut--functions, dysfunctions and therapeutic targets.
Mawe GM1, Hoffman JM.
Nat Rev Gastroenterol Hepatol. 2013 Aug;10(8):473-86. doi: 10.1038/nrgastro.2013.105. Epub 2013 Jun 25.

"Conventional functions of 5-HT involving intrinsic reflexes include stimulation of propulsive and segmentation motility patterns, epithelial secretion and vasodilation. Activation of extrinsic vagal and spinal afferent fibres results in slowed gastric emptying, pancreatic secretion, satiation, pain and discomfort, as well as nausea and vomiting. Within the gut, 5-HT also exerts nonconventional actions such as promoting inflammation and serving as a trophic factor to promote the development and maintenance of neurons and interstitial cells of Cajal."

"5-HT3 receptor antagonists and 5-HT4 receptor agonists have been used to treat functional disorders with diarrhoea or constipation, respectively,..."

Interesting. Maybe my serotonin is too low. I didn't think that was possible, but that seems like the most reasonable explanation for all this. Thank you.

 

[James IV]

post 110520

post 110506 You getting plenty of light, and movement?
Maybe try an over feeding day? Burgers, pizza, fries, cookies, and milkshakes all day until you can't move. That usually gets things moving the next day.

That sounds like a terrible idea tbh

Would you care to explain why?

 

[answersfound]

I think what happened was that I was running on adrenaline and that was what was stimulating digestion. Once I was able to tolerate caffeine in high doses, the adrenaline stopped and digestion shut down. I probably need to bump up the thyroid dose.

 

[answersfound]

post 110640

post 110520

post 110506 You getting plenty of light, and movement?
Maybe try an over feeding day? Burgers, pizza, fries, cookies, and milkshakes all day until you can't move. That usually gets things moving the next day.

That sounds like a terrible idea tbh

Would you care to explain why?

I thought it was a good idea.

 

[cantstoppeating]

post 110318 I've been experimenting with higher doses of caffeine over the past month and I now can tolerate about 400 mg in a sitting and 1000 mg per day. But I've been getting really weird, concerning symptoms. I do not know if this is connected to the caffeine use, but I feel extremely sluggish, exhausted, constipated, flat mood, and just weak. Absolutely nothing

Could be increased ammonia from the high caffeine and possibly high protein. Lower your protein intake by trying the custom protein formula on this board. If you can't create a custom protein blend, trying lowering your overall protein intake to 60g, and eating it away from caffeine intake. Search haidut's posts using the keywords "ammonia" and "protein formula".

 

[answersfound]

From the page with instructions on using thyroid glandular, it all makes perfect sense now:

Patients with high blood pressure need to proceed cautiously, beginning very slow with perhaps 1/4th a tab or less 1x per day or every other day, then increasing very slowing. Patients with high blood pressure or colon problems*** may experience a headache due to increased circulation and small changes in blood pressure or colon pressure. If this occurs, stop the thyroid until the headache is gone, and then resume taking thyroid. As blood and colon pressure normalizes, your headaches will cease. If it’s a colon headache, work on correcting constipation*** first, then go back to working on optimizing your temperature and pulse. Raw carrots are excellent for the colon, especially with coconut oil dressing.

 

[sladerunner69]

post 110727

post 110640

post 110520

post 110506 You getting plenty of light, and movement?
Maybe try an over feeding day? Burgers, pizza, fries, cookies, and milkshakes all day until you can't move. That usually gets things moving the next day.

That sounds like a terrible idea tbh

Would you care to explain why?

I thought it was a good idea.

Overloading on poor quality foods may help you acheive a bowel movement but if you are like most Peaters here and you have been carefully avoiding PUFA for a good length of time then eating a large amount of PUFA is a sure way to make you very sick and ill. A few months ago I binged on nutella (love that stuff couldnt help it) smeared it on toast and a sandwiches etc and by the end of the day I felt like I was hit by a cargo train, total flu thing- migraines, naseau, vomitting...

 

[answersfound]

post 110873

post 110727

post 110640

post 110520

post 110506 You getting plenty of light, and movement?
Maybe try an over feeding day? Burgers, pizza, fries, cookies, and milkshakes all day until you can't move. That usually gets things moving the next day.

That sounds like a terrible idea tbh

Would you care to explain why?

I thought it was a good idea.

Overloading on poor quality foods may help you acheive a bowel movement but if you are like most Peaters here and you have been carefully avoiding PUFA for a good length of time then eating a large amount of PUFA is a sure way to make you very sick and ill. A few months ago I binged on nutella (love that stuff couldnt help it) smeared it on toast and a sandwiches etc and by the end of the day I felt like I was hit by a cargo train, total flu thing- migraines, naseau, vomitting...

Of the things he listed pizza is the only one with significant pufas. I use 98% fat free fries, and if I have to have PUFA fries I take vitamin E.

 

[James IV]

post 110873

post 110727

post 110640

post 110520

post 110506 You getting plenty of light, and movement?
Maybe try an over feeding day? Burgers, pizza, fries, cookies, and milkshakes all day until you can't move. That usually gets things moving the next day.

That sounds like a terrible idea tbh

Would you care to explain why?

I thought it was a good idea.

Overloading on poor quality foods may help you acheive a bowel movement but if you are like most Peaters here and you have been carefully avoiding PUFA for a good length of time then eating a large amount of PUFA is a sure way to make you very sick and ill. A few months ago I binged on nutella (love that stuff couldnt help it) smeared it on toast and a sandwiches etc and by the end of the day I felt like I was hit by a cargo train, total flu thing- migraines, naseau, vomitting...

none of the foods I listed are high in PUFA if made properly. I wasn't suggesting to get these food items from Pizza Hut and McDonald's. I was merely suggesting then because they are hyper palatable as well as very calorically dense.

 

[sladerunner69]

post 111081

post 110873

post 110727

post 110640

post 110520

post 110506 You getting plenty of light, and movement?
Maybe try an over feeding day? Burgers, pizza, fries, cookies, and milkshakes all day until you can't move. That usually gets things moving the next day.

That sounds like a terrible idea tbh

Would you care to explain why?

I thought it was a good idea.

Overloading on poor quality foods may help you acheive a bowel movement but if you are like most Peaters here and you have been carefully avoiding PUFA for a good length of time then eating a large amount of PUFA is a sure way to make you very sick and ill. A few months ago I binged on nutella (love that stuff couldnt help it) smeared it on toast and a sandwiches etc and by the end of the day I felt like I was hit by a cargo train, total flu thing- migraines, naseau, vomitting...

none of the foods I listed are high in PUFA if made properly. I wasn't suggesting to get these food items from Pizza Hut and McDonald's. I was merely suggesting then because they are hyper palatable as well as very calorically dense.

HAH interesting, well the way you wrote it sounded as if you were advising to go through town making stops at all the burger/pizza joints.

What kinds of bread and dough do you use for the pizzza and burger? you make fries yourself with coconut oil or what?

 

[James IV]

No worries, I re-read my post and it was a bit ambiguous. I suppose I have been making my own food from scratch for so long, I just assume everyone else does as well.
I like the unenriched white or wheat flour. Of course if you are avoiding wheat, then that won't work.
I deep fry my spuds in tallow. But coconut oil works too.

 

[sladerunner69]

post 112257 No worries, I re-read my post and it was a bit ambiguous. I suppose I have been making my own food from scratch for so long, I just assume everyone else does as well.
I like the unenriched white or wheat flour. Of course if you are avoiding wheat, then that won't work.
I deep fry my spuds in tallow. But coconut oil works too.

Tallow nice nice. Is that economical for you? Seems expensive to use enough beef fat to submerge a potato, but I suppose the oil would be reusable for multiple batches.

Personally I am fine with consuming wheat every now and again. White flour, unenriched, seems like be like any other starch but perhaps slightly more pro-inflammatory. There seems to be a lot of energy and fervor behind the currently popular "gluten-free" and anti-grain movement but I would like to see that energy being shifted elsewhere.

 

[docall18]

post 110716 I think what happened was that I was running on adrenaline and that was what was stimulating digestion. Once I was able to tolerate caffeine in high doses, the adrenaline stopped and digestion shut down. I probably need to bump up the thyroid dose.

So how have you got on with this? I am in the same boat, the caffeine has been great at stopping the high adrenaline issues etc I had, however it has left me a bit zonked.

I have increased thyroid quite a bit and find it has helped somewhat. I would really like to get to the bottom of this as the caffeine has been very beneficial. Have you found increasing thyroid has helped?

 

[ecstatichamster]

I am increasing thyroid trying to reach decent amounts to raise temps and meanwhile drinking a lot of espresso. Probably 8 cups a day, close to 1000mg of caffeine. I end up feeling cold at the end of the day, or a bit crashed, but less often with each day.

I think i just have to steadily (but slowly) increase the thyroid. I'm at 1.5 grains or so plus some T3 and my temps are slowly increasing for part of the day. And HR a little too.

I am also consuming K2 for liver reasons.

 

[answersfound]

post 117333

post 110716 I think what happened was that I was running on adrenaline and that was what was stimulating digestion. Once I was able to tolerate caffeine in high doses, the adrenaline stopped and digestion shut down. I probably need to bump up the thyroid dose.

So how have you got on with this? I am in the same boat, the caffeine has been great at stopping the high adrenaline issues etc I had, however it has left me a bit zonked.

I have increased thyroid quite a bit and find it has helped somewhat. I would really like to get to the bottom of this as the caffeine has been very beneficial. Have you found increasing thyroid has helped?

Here's what happened. I started taking thyroid around that time and my blood pressure went up, which is completely normal. The increase in blood pressure usually goes hand in hand with constipation, as the body is adjusting to thyroid hormone. I also had headaches. It had nothing to do with the caffeine for me. I had no clue what was going on until I read the following quote:

"Patients with high blood pressure need to proceed cautiously, beginning very slow with perhaps 1/4th a tab or less 1x per day or every other day, then increasing very slowing. Patients with high blood pressure or colon problems may experience a headache due to increased circulation and small changes in blood pressure or colon pressure. If this occurs, stop the thyroid until the headache is gone, and then resume taking thyroid. As blood and colon pressure normalizes, your headaches will cease. If it’s a colon headache, work on correcting constipation first, then go back to working on optimizing your temperature and pulse. "

I held the thyroid dose at the time, probably about half a grain, and waited for the symptoms to pass. Then I started working my way up towards a grain. I don't know exactly how much I was taking because the doses are not specified with the thyroid glandular products.

I recently switched over to synthetic thyroid, with a t4/t3 combo, and I'm using about two grains after 2 months.

 

[ecstatichamster]

post 117404

post 117333

post 110716 I think what happened was that I was running on adrenaline and that was what was stimulating digestion. Once I was able to tolerate caffeine in high doses, the adrenaline stopped and digestion shut down. I probably need to bump up the thyroid dose.

So how have you got on with this? I am in the same boat, the caffeine has been great at stopping the high adrenaline issues etc I had, however it has left me a bit zonked.

I have increased thyroid quite a bit and find it has helped somewhat. I would really like to get to the bottom of this as the caffeine has been very beneficial. Have you found increasing thyroid has helped?

Here's what happened. I started taking thyroid around that time and my blood pressure went up, which is completely normal. The increase in blood pressure usually goes hand in hand with constipation, as the body is adjusting to thyroid hormone. I also had headaches. It had nothing to do with the caffeine for me. I had no clue what was going on until I read the following quote:

"Patients with high blood pressure need to proceed cautiously, beginning very slow with perhaps 1/4th a tab or less 1x per day or every other day, then increasing very slowing. Patients with high blood pressure or colon problems may experience a headache due to increased circulation and small changes in blood pressure or colon pressure. If this occurs, stop the thyroid until the headache is gone, and then resume taking thyroid. As blood and colon pressure normalizes, your headaches will cease. If it’s a colon headache, work on correcting constipation first, then go back to working on optimizing your temperature and pulse. "

I held the thyroid dose at the time, probably about half a grain, and waited for the symptoms to pass. Then I started working my way up towards a grain. I don't know exactly how much I was taking because the doses are not specified with the thyroid glandular products.

I recently switched over to synthetic thyroid, with a t4/t3 combo, and I'm using about two grains after 2 months.

how's it going with synethic? Why did you make the switch?

 

[answersfound]

post 117437

post 117404

post 117333

post 110716 I think what happened was that I was running on adrenaline and that was what was stimulating digestion. Once I was able to tolerate caffeine in high doses, the adrenaline stopped and digestion shut down. I probably need to bump up the thyroid dose.

So how have you got on with this? I am in the same boat, the caffeine has been great at stopping the high adrenaline issues etc I had, however it has left me a bit zonked.

I have increased thyroid quite a bit and find it has helped somewhat. I would really like to get to the bottom of this as the caffeine has been very beneficial. Have you found increasing thyroid has helped?

Here's what happened. I started taking thyroid around that time and my blood pressure went up, which is completely normal. The increase in blood pressure usually goes hand in hand with constipation, as the body is adjusting to thyroid hormone. I also had headaches. It had nothing to do with the caffeine for me. I had no clue what was going on until I read the following quote:

"Patients with high blood pressure need to proceed cautiously, beginning very slow with perhaps 1/4th a tab or less 1x per day or every other day, then increasing very slowing. Patients with high blood pressure or colon problems may experience a headache due to increased circulation and small changes in blood pressure or colon pressure. If this occurs, stop the thyroid until the headache is gone, and then resume taking thyroid. As blood and colon pressure normalizes, your headaches will cease. If it’s a colon headache, work on correcting constipation first, then go back to working on optimizing your temperature and pulse. "

I held the thyroid dose at the time, probably about half a grain, and waited for the symptoms to pass. Then I started working my way up towards a grain. I don't know exactly how much I was taking because the doses are not specified with the thyroid glandular products.

I recently switched over to synthetic thyroid, with a t4/t3 combo, and I'm using about two grains after 2 months.

how's it going with synethic? Why did you make the switch?

I like it a lot better. I'm on Synthroid and Cytomel. It's just tough with the glandular cuz u don't know the amounts of t4 or t3 in them. so that's why I switched.

 

[Bahaa El wazzan]

I've been experimenting with higher doses of caffeine over the past month and I now can tolerate about 400 mg in a sitting and 1000 mg per day. But I've been getting really weird, concerning symptoms. I do not know if this is connected to the caffeine use, but I feel extremely sluggish, exhausted, constipated, flat mood, and just weak. Absolutely nothing has resolved the constipation. I'm pretty concerned and don't understand why I'm getting these symptoms all of the sudden. It feels like there is glue in my bloodstream or something. I can't attribute this to anything else I'm doing. Caffeine does not give me a stress response at all.

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Tea spoon every 6 hours with two cups of water