High Dose K2 And Protocol!

[Insomnia]

Hi people,

Long story short: since october 2016 I've followed a protocol containing supplements. One thing I personally did as an "extra" was high dosing k2, approx 20-45mg daily (mk4) and 200mcg (mk7) every 3 days.

I'll post what I use below (copied from a convo) and I do have some questions afterwards regarding that protocol:

This is what I use in a nutshell long-term wise:

- Thorne Multivitamin:
Basic Nutrients 2/Day

Prior to this I used some other multi (Plantina is the name of the brand, it's being sold in the Netherlands which is where I come from), but this one contained higher dosages and more bioavailable forms of certain vitamins (especially the B-vitamins).

- Vitamin C:
Did take 1g for a while, now I'm at approx 500mg-750mg a day. Still use 1g occasionally.

- Iodine:
Approx 12.5mg daily. U may get (what they call) detox symptoms, it was very unpleasant in the beginning. It sometimes (rarely) still is, but that may be due to the fact that I am not supplementing it long enough yet. Please research this well, because it's a kinda tricky supplement. You do not want to make mistakes, but if u have any questions just ask em. I'm glad enough to have the chance of answering them.

-Selenium
Used to take brazil nuts (x2) but now my multivitamin contains 200mcg of this, so I take 1 extra brazil nut (= anywhere between 50-200 mcg, depending on size).

-Vitamin D
Used to take approx 1200IU a day, but I am still at 76nmol/l which is 30ng/ml. I took 5000IU to see if I could hit higher values (until I reached 40-50). I reached this level last week and now I cut down to 2000IU-3000IU a day. I will continue to experiment and see if I can stay at approx 40 ng/ml

-Zinc 30mg
15mg bisglycinate (from Multi)
15mg picolinate (from thorne)

I'd rather have 30 mg of picolinate in total, but I think it's okay this way, since I can't change the source of the zinc that's in the Multi. Anyways, I don't go much over 30mg a day, because it might contribute to an imbalance with copper. Make sure to balance it well.

I used the solgar everyday, prior to this multivitamin because that other Multi only contained zinc citrate 10mg daily, so that would mean approx 32mg daily.

-Copper:
I almost never use it, but whenever I do, I always get nausea 2.5mg
I might switch to another brand or take it away from other supplements.

-Magnesium:
400-600mg a day. Mainly citrate, but I also use a complex (since 2 weeks) that contains malate,citrate and glycinate. I ordered magnesium malate (brand: Seeking Health) and I'll see what that one does for me.

-Vitamin E:
Mixed tocopherols only 50-100IU a day. I don't want to dose too high on this, so I take low doses.
Someone recommended to go towards 150-200IU. What do u think?

-Vitamin K2:
200mcg as MK7 (used it every day, but now using it once every 3 days)
45MG (45000mcg) as Mk4 (I'm only doing this for 4 months, but that's another story)I will eventually cut this back to 5-9 mg daily

-Fish Oil
3 capsules a day providing:
2g EPA
1g DHA

Will cut this back to 1.8 EPA and DHA combined, so i.e. 2 capsules a day.

- Taurine: 1000mg to 2000mg a day

- Choline: 250-400 mg a day

- Inositol: 250-500 mg a day

- Boron: 2mg during off periods and 7-9mg during cycling periods

-cycling 3 days on and 3 days off (Thursday, Friday and Saturday are the days I am using it)

- Vitamin A:

I recently added extra vitamin A, because my multivitamin was only containing 2000IU of retionol palimitate and 3000IU of carotene. I used cod liver oil and that contained 3000IU of retinol aswell, so that would make it 5000IU of retinol and 3000IU from carotene. I was always avoiding high dosages of vitamin A, because I got scared of overdosing. 5000IU however really cleared up my skin, so I am glad I found it out (even if I did by accident). I just want to get rid of the carotene in this supplement. Do I have to be scared of getting orange lol???

- Calcium:
To be honest, I don't use it that much, only on days where I feel I just don't get enough calcium from the diet. When I do, I use 500mg, once a day.
I might grind eggshells and use that as a source of calcium.

I am going to add the following to this protocol:

-CoQ10 (Kaneka): 100mg daily
- Turmeric: something in liquid form that I use once-twice a week.
- Gelatin/Collagen supplement!



My questions:

1) Do I need to cut out boron, as I heard it was estrogenic and others claiming it to be raising testosterone. Seems pretty contra-indicating.

- Btw, to sum things up: in october I had my Testosterone levels measured:
This came out of it:
(OCTOBER 2016) 34 nmol/l (range is between 5.5 - 25). 34nmol/l = 9.81 ng/ml = 981 ng/dl

In February I had another Testosterone test and this came out of it:
(FEBRUARY 2017) 34 nmol/l (range is between 5.5 - 25). 34nmol/l = 9.81 ng/ml = 981 ng/dl

They are exactly the same lol, what are the odds? XD

- I also had my D-levels measured at those 2 given times:
(OCTOBER 2016) 75 nmol/l = 30ng/ml
(FEBRUARY 2017) 130 nmol/l = 52 ng/ml (there were some sites giving 50-60 levels as optimal)

I dosed 5000IU from october to february. I am back at 3000IU daily, trying to maintain good levels. What dosage should I use in the summer btw?

2) I heard fish oil suppresses the immune system, I did dose it at 3g for a time (EPA and DHA combined), now I dropped to 2g, but I may even drop it to 1g or leave it out if it's really that bad. I mean, I did get sick 2 weeks ago (and I haven't been sick in approx a year now), but I cannot contribute that to the fish oil solely ofcourse. Anyhow, my concern is that, if I drop fish oil, that I won't get enough omega-3 from other sources (as most fish are contaminated).

- So, drop it to 1.2g (1 capsule of 750mg EPA + 500 mg DHA) enough or still too much that it would raise concerns?

3) Regarding the vitamins A, D, K and E. Would it be a pretty good ratio (currently what I am using in the protocol above), I tried using @haidut Estroban as a guideline.

The A = dosed at 5000IU of retinol + 3000IU carotene (I tried removing carotene as much as possible, but it's in the Multi unfortunately, should I be concerned of becoming orange at this dosage?)

The D= dosed at 3000IU currently, was at 5000IU

The E= dosed at 100IU daily

The K= dosed at 45MG daily (mk4 form) and 200MCG every 3 days (mk7 form)

When I am done with the K, I will put it at approx 9mg daily. Any thoughts on a dosage for lifetime???


4) Is there anything else I can add for making this as optimum as possible. Or anything that makes this more peat like, is welcome too ofcourse. Do I miss any crucial things which would give me great benefits?

 

[johnwester130]

too many supplements and too many of the questionable supplements

vitamin c

iodine

selenium

fish oil

choline/inositol/boron

are all questionable

 

[Insomnia]

too many supplements and too many of the questionable supplements

vitamin c

iodine

selenium

fish oil

choline/inositol/boron

are all questionable

Thanks John for responding,
-I did have some succes with iodine. I do need to use vitamin C and selenium with it, but I'll see if I can change that.

-As for fish oil, I think I'll just drop it then for now. How do I make sure that I don't get an overwhelming amount of omega 6 in the diet? Replace anything I bake with grass-fed butter perhaps???

-Do u know a good source of choline/inositol perhaps?? I do know that bananas contain inositol.

 

[johnwester130]

Thanks John for responding,
-I did have some succes with iodine. I do need to use vitamin C and selenium with it, but I'll see if I can change that.

-As for fish oil, I think I'll just drop it then for now. How do I make sure that I don't get an overwhelming amount of omega 6 in the diet? Replace anything I bake with grass-fed butter perhaps???

-Do u know a good source of choline/inositol perhaps?? I do know that bananas contain inositol.

cook only in coconut oil and butter

body fat should resemble coconut oil

omega 3 and 6 are scams . the body will produce omega 9 mead acid when deficient in omega 3 & 6.

Ray Peat

Suitable Fats, Unsuitable Fats: Issues in Nutrition

B1, b2,b3, b6 and biotin are most important

scrap the multivitamin, go for the isolated b vitamins instead.

here are some very, very basic ray peat notes for a beginner

My Peat Notes And Progress Since Joining

 

[Risingfire]

Why are you ingesting pufa's?

 

[Insomnia]

Why are you ingesting pufa's?

Because I took them for their anti-inflammatory effects. However, each response makes me think it may have been a bad idea to take them in the first place.

 

[Risingfire]

Because I took them for their anti-inflammatory effects. However, each response makes me think it may have been a bad idea to take them in the first place.

Yea. The one Ray Peat rule is keep pufa low.

 

[Insomnia]

Yea. The one Ray Peat rule is keep pufa low.

I thought about going as low as 500mg (after the initial 1-3g), but now I might just stop it alltogether. I read the study (posted above) about it (thanks to @A.R and @johnwester130 for mentioning the study), and I got shocked tbh.

There is just 1 thing I cannot seem to understand: there are many doctors/scientists/studies showing and implying that we somehow do need these omega 3 acids, which then makes me think, if so: how do they come to this conclusion and what is considered a good/safe dose if you somehow cannot get enough through diet....
I mean, these EFA's do have a function I suppose, how can they be so detrimental for health then. Everything is so confusing, yet I do not want to put something in my body which doesn't belong there if that makes sense. Hence the reason, why I reach out for help from you guys.

Thanks for all the advice/help btw,

Greetings,

Ins

 

[johnwester130]

I thought about going as low as 500mg (after the initial 1-3g), but now I might just stop it alltogether. I read the study (posted above) about it (thanks to @A.R and @johnwester130 for mentioning the study), and I got shocked tbh.




Ins

Ray Peat's work is about keeping the body in a young, youthful state with high metabolism. Not about mass suppelements.

The Great Fish Oil Experiment

Fats, functions and malfunctions.

"I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption. In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."


Other good supplements would A, D, E , K2 as liquid oils applied topically.

Pregnenolone, Progesterone and DHT or Androsterone for men.

b1, b2,b3, b6 and biotin help you metabolise and burn sugar

taurine and gelatin are better than the amino acids in steak

avoid these scam supplements
What Supplements Do You Hate Most ?

 

[REOSIRENS]

I would go with low dose of K2 with progesterone
100mcg is just fine

 

[Risingfire]

I thought about going as low as 500mg (after the initial 1-3g), but now I might just stop it alltogether. I read the study (posted above) about it (thanks to @A.R and @johnwester130 for mentioning the study), and I got shocked tbh.

There is just 1 thing I cannot seem to understand: there are many doctors/scientists/studies showing and implying that we somehow do need these omega 3 acids, which then makes me think, if so: how do they come to this conclusion and what is considered a good/safe dose if you somehow cannot get enough through diet....
I mean, these EFA's do have a function I suppose, how can they be so detrimental for health then. Everything is so confusing, yet I do not want to put something in my body which doesn't belong there if that makes sense. Hence the reason, why I reach out for help from you guys.

Thanks for all the advice/help btw,

Greetings,

Ins

Ins, I've come to find reducing pufa's in conjuction with taking thyroid have fixed my sleeping problems

 

[Insomnia]

I would go with low dose of K2 with progesterone
100mcg is just fine

Thnx, I'll dose the mk7 at 100 mcg then

 

[Insomnia]

Ins, I've come to find reducing pufa's in conjuction with taking thyroid have fixed my sleeping problems

I stopped using the pufa's since I started this thread (since yesterday). Do u perhaps also know, how long it would take my body to clear out the junk pufa's I consumed till this day. I feel so stupid for doing that. But hey, everyone makes mistakes I guess. I am glad that people like you have helped me out here, better late then never.

 

[Risingfire]

I stopped using the pufa's since I started this thread (since yesterday). Do u perhaps also know, how long it would take my body to clear out the junk pufa's I consumed till this day. I feel so stupid for doing that. But hey, everyone makes mistakes I guess. I am glad that people like you have helped me out here, better late then never.

Agreed better late than ever. Generally, it takes 4 years to detoxify pufa's out of your tissues. Allegedly, you may be able to detoxify pufa out of your tissues in 45 days if you consume a no fat diet.

Take a look at these:

https://raypeatforum.com/wiki/index.php/Ray_Peat_Email_Exchanges

Fats, functions and malfunctions.

 

[Insomnia]

Agreed better late than ever. Generally, it takes 4 years to detoxify pufa's out of your tissues. Allegedly, you may be able to detoxify pufa out of your tissues in 45 days if you consume a no fat diet.

Take a look at these:

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

Fats, functions and malfunctions.

Holy ...., does it really take that long. I mean, I only used PUFA's for 3 months at 3g a day. I assume that it would take less time in my case? Otherwise that would've been a really stupid move from me. I've never used it before on a daily basis (the fish oil), maybe every now and then. But I actually just used it for 3 months, no longer.

 

[Risingfire]

Holy ...., does it really take that long. I mean, I only used PUFA's for 3 months at 3g a day. I assume that it would take less time in my case? Otherwise that would've been a really stupid move from me. I've never used it before on a daily basis (the fish oil), maybe every now and then. But I actually just used it for 3 months, no longer.

Did you not eat any pufa's your whole life? Near impossible

 

[Insomnia]

Did you not eat any pufa's your whole life? Near impossible

I thought what u said regarding the pufa's, was about the fish oil that I consumed lately (I dunno why I thought that lol)

I always tried to avoid fats as much as possible, I think that also might have been a stupid thing to do because it led to weight issues, I'm glad I gained some healthy weight. The things I would eat, may have been some foods that are being baked in pufa oil but we don't bake much of ours foods tbh. We almost always cook it, and whenever we eat rice; we would mainly use butter and not oil.

Anyways, if there are things that need to be avoided, then I would cut out any baking oils (corn).
I did read that olive oil was okay though (I read somewhere that Peat said coconut and olive oil was okay???). Could u perhaps clarify/ help me out on that since I switched to only consuming olive oil and coconut oil right now.
And if I ever decide to bake something, I should probably use coconut oil, grass-fed butter for that right?

 

[Risingfire]

I thought what u said regarding the pufa's, was about the fish oil that I consumed lately (I dunno why I thought that lol)

I always tried to avoid fats as much as possible, I think that also might have been a stupid thing to do because it led to weight issues, I'm glad I gained some healthy weight. The things I would eat, may have been some foods that are being baked in pufa oil but we don't bake much of ours foods tbh. We almost always cook it, and whenever we eat rice; we would mainly use butter and not oil.

Anyways, if there are things that need to be avoided, then I would cut out any baking oils (corn).
I did read that olive oil was okay though (I read somewhere that Peat said coconut and olive oil was okay???). Could u perhaps clarify/ help me out on that since I switched to only consuming olive oil and coconut oil right now.
And if I ever decide to bake something, I should probably use coconut oil, grass-fed butter for that right?

Most people consume pufa's on a regular basis. You even find pufa's in chicken. I'm not sure how Peat feels about olive oil. I imagine in moderation since it has pufa's but I would have to defer.

He's a huge fan of coconut oil:

Coconut Oil

 

[Insomnia]

Most people consume pufa's on a regular basis. You even find pufa's in chicken. I'm not sure how Peat feels about olive oil. I imagine in moderation since it has pufa's but I would have to defer.

He's a huge fan of coconut oil:

Coconut Oil

Thanks, was a nice read btw. I am also wondering: what's like the maximum amount of coconut oil you should/can consume on a daily basis (I know everything needs be done in moderation), but could u give me an approx measure (in perhaps tablespoons I dunno lol XD)

 

[Constatine]

Thanks, was a nice read btw. I am also wondering: what's like the maximum amount of coconut oil you should/can consume on a daily basis (I know everything needs be done in moderation), but could u give me an approx measure (in perhaps tablespoons I dunno lol XD)

3-1 tablespoons seems to do it for me.