Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[Vinero]

Btw, I should note that the products you listed contain little, but not 0 VA. Whole grains are rich in carotenoids. Bananas contain ~250 IU VA. Potatoes, if they are not white like paper, will contain carotenoids too. Nuts contain carotenoids. Even cocoa powder contains a little lutein.

Most foods contain at least some carotenoids or retinoids. Only white rice and white sugar have 0 vitamin A. So unless you are eating just white rice you are going to get some vitamin A. Meat has some vitamin a in it, but most people tolerate meat just fine. I think I don't tolerate potatoes, beans, whole grains, cocoa, nuts etc. because of soluble fiber and/or oxalates, not because of the small amount of carotenoids. If the small amount of carotenoids in these foods would be a problem I should also react bad to beef, which I don't. As you can see below beef contains some beta carotene.
Here are the retinol and beta carotene content in mcg per gram of the most popular cuts of meat in the supermarkt (excluding pork):
Beef top round: retinol= 0,03 beta carotene = 0,26
Ground beef: retinol = 0,04 beta carotene = 0,34
Ground steak: retinol = 0,08 beta carotene =0,30
Beef liver: retinol = 190 beta carotene = 8,7
Chicken: retinol = 0,44 beta carotene = -
Turkey: retinol 0,13 beta carotene= 0,01

 

[Daniil]

Most foods contain at least some carotenoids or retinoids. Only white rice and white sugar have 0 vitamin A. So unless you are eating just white rice you are going to get some vitamin A. Meat has some vitamin a in it, but most people tolerate meat just fine. I think I don't tolerate potatoes, beans, whole grains, cocoa, nuts etc. because of soluble fiber and/or oxalates, not because of the small amount of carotenoids. If the small amount of carotenoids in these foods would be a problem I should also react bad to beef, which I don't. As you can see below beef contains some beta carotene.
Here are the retinol and beta carotene content in mcg per gram of the most popular cuts of meat in the supermarkt (excluding pork):
Beef top round: retinol= 0,03 beta carotene = 0,26
Ground beef: retinol = 0,04 beta carotene = 0,34
Ground steak: retinol = 0,08 beta carotene =0,30
Beef liver: retinol = 190 beta carotene = 8,7
Chicken: retinol = 0,44 beta carotene = -
Turkey: retinol 0,13 beta carotene= 0,01

Some strange data and I guess where you got it from. Meat cannot contain beta-carotene several times more than retinol. Most likely there was a measurement error. If it is not grass-fed meat (which will also contain a lot of retinol), all databases says that the beta-carotene content in meat is negligible.

 

[Dr. B]

Grant has a retinol level of 0.1 micromol/L („extremely deficient“) after his six years of low vitamin A eating. He suffers no health problems and his chronic kidney disease and eczema disappeared.

In this video, Garett Smith makes the argument that vitamin A deficiency does not exist. Really interesting studies in there I didn‘t know of.

does he get symptoms even from liver, or from non fortified whole milk with its natural vitamin A.
i wonder if it gets worse with calcium deficiency, it has some involvement in calcium or bone turnover doesnt it. so possibly you could get toxic effects from supplemental A without vitamin D, from liver, but maybe not from whole milk
I know several people who have a low calcium and also low vitamin A diet... things like chicken breast, rice, small amount whey protein,
or a mostly grain/starchy diet with some fruits and meat... but suffering exzema
i get 3000IU daily from whole milk,
3000IU once a week from a supplement,
3000mg+ calcium intake, and possibly another 5000IU from liver if i have that, never had exzema. but i also use 10k IU d3 daily

 

[Eberhardt]

Some strange data and I guess where you got it from. Meat cannot contain beta-carotene several times more than retinol. Most likely there was a measurement error. If it is not grass-fed meat (which will also contain a lot of retinol), all databases says that the beta-carotene content in meat is negligible.

Yup

 

[Eberhardt]

does he get symptoms even from liver, or from non fortified whole milk with its natural vitamin A.
i wonder if it gets worse with calcium deficiency, it has some involvement in calcium or bone turnover doesnt it. so possibly you could get toxic effects from supplemental A without vitamin D, from liver, but maybe not from whole milk
I know several people who have a low calcium and also low vitamin A diet... things like chicken breast, rice, small amount whey protein,
or a mostly grain/starchy diet with some fruits and meat... but suffering exzema
i get 3000IU daily from whole milk,
3000IU once a week from a supplement,
3000mg+ calcium intake, and possibly another 5000IU from liver if i have that, never had exzema. but i also use 10k IU d3 daily

Its complex so dont know it this has any merit but here we go. All research shows that the so called natural and the synthetic vitamin A gives the same sort of poisoning with the same amount this has been tested repetadly in labs and also confirmed by observational studies of animals in the wild. The main authority on natural I would say is Jan Rodahl who did a lot of reaearch on it in the 50s and it was because of massive problems with vitamin A toxicity including deaths among the early arctic explorers. He observed the same in many wild species and as mentioned it has been confirmed in lab. And yes he gets reactions from liver. Personally I havd had bloodtests showing accute toxicity and liver damage and I never tool it suplemental.
3000IU is a lot, in Finland that is about the maximum tolerable upper level for pregnant women from official recomendations. Also there is the priblem that both drugs and hormones like birth control (especially glyphosat) both true pathway occupation, bile restriction and enzyme inactivation slows or stops the detixing of retinol. Most fruits are highish in betacaroteen too. Aaand pufas in addition to all other pufa effects slows down the breakdown and excretion of retinol

 

[Daniil]

does he get symptoms even from liver, or from non fortified whole milk with its natural vitamin A.
i wonder if it gets worse with calcium deficiency, it has some involvement in calcium or bone turnover doesnt it. so possibly you could get toxic effects from supplemental A without vitamin D, from liver, but maybe not from whole milk
I know several people who have a low calcium and also low vitamin A diet... things like chicken breast, rice, small amount whey protein,
or a mostly grain/starchy diet with some fruits and meat... but suffering exzema
i get 3000IU daily from whole milk,
3000IU once a week from a supplement,
3000mg+ calcium intake, and possibly another 5000IU from liver if i have that, never had exzema. but i also use 10k IU d3 daily

Of course you don't have eczema when you take an immunosuppressive steroid in a horse dosage.

 

[Daniil]

I'm sorry if that sounded rude.

 

[Dr. B]

Of course you don't have eczema when you take an immunosuppressive steroid in a horse dosage.

is it powerfully immunosuppressive, i hear it mentioned as immunomodulatory usually

anyway does it mean vitamin D is good for autoimmune type issues?

i used a multivitamin with 5000IU vitamin A, plus 1000mg vitamin C, only 400IU vitamin d3, for a couple years and no exzema. diet at that point was lower in calcium, and had a poor phosphorus to calcium ratio, probably like 1.5x as much phosphorus as calcium. do you think the vitamin c was immunosuppressive at that point since the vitamin d3 dose was very low.

 

[Daniil]

is it powerfully immunosuppressive, i hear it mentioned as immunomodulatory usually

anyway does it mean vitamin D is good for autoimmune type issues?

i used a multivitamin with 5000IU vitamin A, plus 1000mg vitamin C, only 400IU vitamin d3, for a couple years and no exzema. diet at that point was lower in calcium, and had a poor phosphorus to calcium ratio, probably like 1.5x as much phosphorus as calcium. do you think the vitamin c was immunosuppressive at that point since the vitamin d3 dose was very low.

I think I took much much more VA than you and I don't have eczema. Although I have some redness on my skin, but I don't complain about them. But I have other problems.

 

[Nomane Euger]

I think I took much much more VA than you and I don't have eczema. Although I have some redness on my skin, but I don't complain about them. But I have other problems.

Never had any skin problem,despit eating a bunch of liver,I got eczema and estrogenic symptoms after I ate a bunch of red watermelons,I didn’t eat it since 3months,i sill have these symptoms

 

[Dr. B]

Never had any skin problem,despit eating a bunch of liver,I got eczema and estrogenic symptoms after I ate a bunch of red watermelons,I didn’t eat it since 3months,i sill have these symptoms

citrulline? theyre very high in it

 

[Nomane Euger]

citrulline? theyre very high in it

I don’t know,pure speculation,lycopene,I was eating kilos of red watermelon everyday

 

[youngsinatra]

Feeling pretty damn good the last week by using liver-supportive stuff.

I use NAC (2g), glycine (10-30g), vitamin E (800 IU), lots of coffee (1-2L) and citicholine. (2 x 1g)

Also feeling leaner in my midsection and it seems that I can go much longer without food. A liter of coffee (even on empty stomach in the AM sometimes) does not seem to cause any stress symptoms anymore.

 

[Eberhardt]

Feeling pretty damn good the last week by using liver-supportive stuff.

I use NAC (2g), glycine (10-30g), vitamin E (800 IU), lots of coffee (1-2L) and citicholine. (2 x 1g)

Also feeling leaner in my midsection and it seems that I can go much longer without food. A liter of coffee (even on empty stomach in the AM sometimes) does not seem to cause any stress symptoms anymore.

I dont know exactly your position on the vitamin A stuff, but in case this is something you are interested in. According to Garreth Smith vitamin E isnt so good for combating problems with vitamin A as part of the effect it has on retinol is shuffling it back into the liver from the bloodstream. Meaning you feel better but are stilling building it up in the liver. I cant verify the truth of this 100% but it does correspond to my own experiences and that of several others doing A detox.

 

[youngsinatra]

I dont know exactly your position on the vitamin A stuff, but in case this is something you are interested in. According to Garreth Smith vitamin E isnt so good for combating problems with vitamin A as part of the effect it has on retinol is shuffling it back into the liver from the bloodstream. Meaning you feel better but are stilling building it up in the liver. I cant verify the truth of this 100% but it does correspond to my own experiences and that of several others doing A detox.

Interesting. Could be possible. I feel much better on vitamin E than without it, maybe by lowering retinol in the serum (which causes the most symptoms?), even if they pay-off is shuffling it to the liver?

On wikipedia‘s page on Hypervitaminosis A, vitamin E is listed as one of the few known therapeutic agents for it.

 

[youngsinatra]

@Eberhardt
How are you going about vitamin A detox? I am highly interested! :)

Edit: I am also interested in any other one‘s approach of course (besides eating low vitamin A diet)

 

[Eberhardt]

Interesting. Could be possible. I feel much better on vitamin E than without it, maybe by lowering retinol in the serum (which causes the most symptoms?), even if they pay-off is shuffling it to the liver?

On wikipedia‘s page on Hypervitaminosis A, vitamin E is listed as one of the few known therapeutic agents for it.

Yupp- thats the proposed mechanism.

I would as normal not trust wiki but its interesting its even listed - I know Smith used to recomed it, before discovering this. At the moment he instead suggests lactoferrin as it normalizes bile excretion which is an important part. I still havent had any success with it, waiting for a better brand hopefully, but if trying start ridiculously low doses like 1/64th of a capsule if not the sudden change can be overwhelming.

I think its important at least to get some fiber to have it soak up the bile containing it. In the blood it does nothing good.

oh and one more thing. For me the positive effects of vitamin E that I experienced before starting the detox now after 3 years of low A does not give me a pleasent experience anymore. Maybe a bit like what Peat says about E mainly being useful as an antidote to PUFA (which Im not eating for 11 years)

 

[youngsinatra]

Yupp- thats the proposed mechanism.

I would as normal not trust wiki but its interesting its even listed - I know Smith used to recomed it, before discovering this. At the moment he instead suggests lactoferrin as it normalizes bile excretion which is an important part. I still havent had any success with it, waiting for a better brand hopefully, but if trying start ridiculously low doses like 1/64th of a capsule if not the sudden change can be overwhelming.

I think its important at least to get some fiber to have it soak up the bile containing it. In the blood it does nothing good.

Yes, upping fiber seems to help, so that I have multiple good bowel movements daily with enough bulk.
Rice and beef doesn‘t seem enough from my experience.
Peeleed white potatoes, cooked oatmeal and cooked peeled apples or pears seem to work better for me.

 

[Eberhardt]

Yes, upping fiber seems to help, so that I have multiple good bowel movements daily with enough bulk.
Rice and beef doesn‘t seem enough from my experience.
Peeleed white potatoes, cooked oatmeal and cooked peeled apples or pears seem to work better for me.

Thats very much similar to me. I cant tolerate beans and Im not convinced its too healthy either. I do Beef, rice, peeled well boilde white potatoes, pealed organic apples (but raw for me) and some bananas, and then supplement with sugar and salt. I also eat small amounts of coconut fat and butter. This isnt absolute but my main food

 

[aniciete]

Thats very much similar to me. I cant tolerate beans and Im not convinced its too healthy either. I do Beef, rice, peeled well boilde white potatoes, pealed organic apples (but raw for me) and some bananas, and then supplement with sugar and salt. I also eat small amounts of coconut fat and butter. This isnt absolute but my main food

What do you think of Nixtamilized corn tortillas?