Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[Eberhardt]

so the casein in milk contains vitamin A? how much A does it contain?
so whey powder would truly have 0 vitamin A?

Sorry if Im explaining it badly - Yes Casein will normally contain a form of vitamin A unless the mother is living on a very low vit A diet. But just like with PUFA there is also specie difference, camels milk are much lower naturally then say cowsmilk and goats milk is even higher. It is problematic even with camel if your detoxsystem isnt good.

No, whey is milk protein and is thus very high vitamin A though a different but equally problematic form then the ones they usually test for in foods, thus the erroneous labelling of low/zero A. Whey is thus worse the milk due to the concentration. Unfortunatly I dont know the exact typical amount in say cows whey.

 

[Vinero]

I have been feeling amazing eating Super Lean ground beef, fresh, with white rice. So last night I decided to eat some grilled cheese, and already feel that drowsy eye feeling. I am so torn, because Ray sounds so convincing. I listened to His Podcast with Kate Deering about Vit D. Ray saying how high Calcium , high VIt D diet plus sugar is the most protective diet.
I have high liver enzymes, and eczema, and they only seem to get better with low Vita A diet. My vision and clarity is so notable as well. However, I always fall back to Ray. It starting to piss me off about myself. I should trust my own feeling and thoughts. We should not have to take a supplement like Vit D to be optimal. Ray talked about how he for most of his life, would sunburn even while driving a car. Now , to me that is Vit A toxicity symptom. But Ray said its Vit D deficiency.

I also suffer from eczema. It went away completely when I was eating just white rice and beef. A diet of white rice and lean meat seems to work for curing eczema. It worked for Grant, and for me.
Any other version of the low vitamin A diet I have tried makes my eczema come back.
Eating potatoes instead of rice makes my eczema come back. Not immediately, but after a few weeks it just starts with a small itchy spot but it keeps getting worse everyday if I keep eating the potatoes.
Same thing with whole grains, beans, nuts. They also make my eczema come back.
At first I thought it could be the soluble fiber aggravating the vitamin A detox symptoms.
But then I ate cocoa powder 4 days in a row. My eczema flared up hugely after this. Cocoa powder doesn't have much soluble fiber.
So then I started thinking what do cocoa powder, potatoes, whole grains and beans have in common?
These foods are all high in oxalates. Maybe a diet of white rice and meat works because it's low oxalate, not because it's low vitamin A.
I do not get eczema flares from butter, milk and cheese. But I do not feel well if I eat dairy everyday. Eating white rice and meat works best for mental clarity, sharp vision and clear thinking.
Have you ever tried going low oxalate for your eczema?

 

[Dr. B]

Sorry if Im explaining it badly - Yes Casein will normally contain a form of vitamin A unless the mother is living on a very low vit A diet. But just like with PUFA there is also specie difference, camels milk are much lower naturally then say cowsmilk and goats milk is even higher. It is problematic even with camel if your detoxsystem isnt good.

No, whey is milk protein and is thus very high vitamin A though a different but equally problematic form then the ones they usually test for in foods, thus the erroneous labelling of low/zero A. Whey is thus worse the milk due to the concentration. Unfortunatly I dont know the exact typical amount in say cows whey.

so its a testing problem of different forms of vitamin A? cuz with skim milk they say it has 0 vitamin A thus they add a bunch of vitamin A to it

how did you find out whey and skim milk/casein contain vitamin A, which form is it in?

also with camel milk, this amish farm website claims its 10x higher in iron than cows milk? and higher in PUFA? seems crazy to have so much iron in a milk that must be like 1mg iron per cup at least

 

[InChristAlone]

I also suffer from eczema. It went away completely when I was eating just white rice and beef. A diet of white rice and lean meat seems to work for curing eczema. It worked for Grant, and for me.
Any other version of the low vitamin A diet I have tried makes my eczema come back.
Eating potatoes instead of rice makes my eczema come back. Not immediately, but after a few weeks it just starts with a small itchy spot but it keeps getting worse everyday if I keep eating the potatoes.
Same thing with whole grains, beans, nuts. They also make my eczema come back.
At first I thought it could be the soluble fiber aggravating the vitamin A detox symptoms.
But then I ate cocoa powder 4 days in a row. My eczema flared up hugely after this. Cocoa powder doesn't have much soluble fiber.
So then I started thinking what do cocoa powder, potatoes, whole grains and beans have in common?
These foods are all high in oxalates. Maybe a diet of white rice and meat works because it's low oxalate, not because it's low vitamin A.
I do not get eczema flares from butter, milk and cheese. But I do not feel well if I eat dairy everyday. Eating white rice and meat works best for mental clarity, sharp vision and clear thinking.
Have you ever tried going low oxalate for your eczema?

Interesting on the oxalate. Good critical thinking!

 

[tallglass13]

I also suffer from eczema. It went away completely when I was eating just white rice and beef. A diet of white rice and lean meat seems to work for curing eczema. It worked for Grant, and for me.
Any other version of the low vitamin A diet I have tried makes my eczema come back.
Eating potatoes instead of rice makes my eczema come back. Not immediately, but after a few weeks it just starts with a small itchy spot but it keeps getting worse everyday if I keep eating the potatoes.
Same thing with whole grains, beans, nuts. They also make my eczema come back.
At first I thought it could be the soluble fiber aggravating the vitamin A detox symptoms.
But then I ate cocoa powder 4 days in a row. My eczema flared up hugely after this. Cocoa powder doesn't have much soluble fiber.
So then I started thinking what do cocoa powder, potatoes, whole grains and beans have in common?
These foods are all high in oxalates. Maybe a diet of white rice and meat works because it's low oxalate, not because it's low vitamin A.
I do not get eczema flares from butter, milk and cheese. But I do not feel well if I eat dairy everyday. Eating white rice and meat works best for mental clarity, sharp vision and clear thinking.
Have you ever tried going low oxalate for your eczema?

Super good to know Vinero. I have made a DMSO gel with Keflex, and it is healing the large patch of eczema. I think that is great info on the rice and beef. When eating rice and beef, I feel really good. Also, Raw low fat milk, no added A, seems fine for me, but I do get a very slight drowsy feeling. But Rice and beef is where its at for clear thinking and clear vision, among others. I will pay close attention to oxalates.

 

[Daniil]

cant the alpha tocopherol form cause an imbalance in the other tocopherols and tocotrienols
i use thornes ultimate E, but only once every two weeks as its a high dose and i use vitamin k2 weekly so dont want to use E too often, diets low pufa
but i was thinking of adding in a bit of tocotrienols. the doctors best tocotrienol complex sourced from red palm oil. its about 10mg of each of the 4 tocotrienols, so 40mg tocotrienols total. even if there is a risk to them, the 350mg+ gamma tocopherol and 350mg+ alpha tocopherol in thornes product should reduce any issues with the tocotrienols?
im also doing b1, but just 500mg thiamine hcl daily, and 20mg swansons policosanols
150mg magnesium from supps daily. i get more from milk and Oj

Even Ray against it.

 

[tallglass13]

so its a testing problem of different forms of vitamin A? cuz with skim milk they say it has 0 vitamin A thus they add a bunch of vitamin A to it

how did you find out whey and skim milk/casein contain vitamin A, which form is it in?

also with camel milk, this amish farm website claims its 10x higher in iron than cows milk? and higher in PUFA? seems crazy to have so much iron in a milk that must be like 1mg iron per cup at least

Try finding Raw whole milk and then skim it yourself. Its some work , but I bought a large glass container with a spicket , so when I get the gallon of milk, I puncture a hole at the bottom of the gallon, then let that low fat part of milk drain into the glass container. I stop the drainage at the time of the last bit of low fat milk, and cream from top is saved for something else. Then, when the lower fat milk is in the glass container with the spicket, more fat float to top, and when you get milk from spicket, you only are getting very low fat milk.

 

[Dr. B]

Even Ray against it.

he said a small amount of tocotrienol contributes to the overall protective vitamin E action
as far as natural foods it seems the more saturated fats have small amounts of tocotrienols in them like palm oil, maybe coconut and palm kernel whereas the tocopherols are found in all the PUFA i think soybean oil has the most tocopherol!

Try finding Raw whole milk and then skim it yourself. Its some work , but I bought a large glass container with a spicket , so when I get the gallon of milk, I puncture a hole at the bottom of the gallon, then let that low fat part of milk drain into the glass container. I stop the drainage at the time of the last bit of low fat milk, and cream from top is saved for something else. Then, when the lower fat milk is in the glass container with the spicket, more fat float to top, and when you get milk from spicket, you only are getting very low fat milk.

but it wont get rid of vitamin A apparently its in the casein and whey? i only do a half gallon whole milk day to day so i was thinking i need some of those SFA and dairy fats... for the rest of the protein im thinking of doing azure skim milk powder, or some organic whey powder

 

[Eberhardt]

so its a testing problem of different forms of vitamin A? cuz with skim milk they say it has 0 vitamin A thus they add a bunch of vitamin A to it

how did you find out whey and skim milk/casein contain vitamin A, which form is it in?

also with camel milk, this amish farm website claims its 10x higher in iron than cows milk? and higher in PUFA? seems crazy to have so much iron in a milk that must be like 1mg iron per cup at least

Yes its the testing, but of course adding it makes it worse. I was being a bit quick here though as it isnt the exact form that is the problem with the milk its that its bound to the casein who functions as a carrier molecule, so it is actually regular retinol, not retinaldehyde or cisretinoic acid, or retinpalmitic acid and what not that is in different foods. But the binding to the casein makes it not bind to the testing thus not registering. I first learned about it from Grant dont remember exactly where, but its in his book "Poisoning for profits". I saw he linked to a study a pro pos skimmed milk: Binding of vitamin A by casein micelles in commercial skim milk - PubMed
I'm not saying "drink camels milk" just saying its lower in vitamin A. And yes its higher in PUFA though Im not sure if thats very problematic due to it coming with the SFA's at the same time. I think the iron varies. I dont try milk at all as it alwats just messes me up ..

 

[Eberhardt]

Interesting on the oxalate. Good critical thinking!

I agree. its interesting. But on the other hand there might be another explanation. Personally I react a bit different to A and oxalate, but oxalate seems to give me less trouble then A. BUT if Grant is right, and at least I've seen this reported, A makes the body not handle oxalates properly, so that it triggers flares of stuff. I have at least read about some people getting rid of their oxalate sensitivity by detoxing A, and then tolerating it.

 

[Blossom]

These foods are all high in oxalates. Maybe a diet of white rice and meat works because it's low oxalate, not because it's low vitamin A.
I do not get eczema flares from butter, milk and cheese. But I do not feel well if I eat dairy everyday. Eating white rice and meat works best for mental clarity, sharp vision and clear thinking.

Exactly the same for me although I eat honey instead of rice.

 

[youngsinatra]

@Daniil what form do you supplement with calcium and how much?

 

[Daniil]

@Daniil what form do you supplement with calcium and how much?

I wash down the calcium carbonate with apple cider vinegar. About a teaspoon a day.

 

[Dr. B]

I also suffer from eczema. It went away completely when I was eating just white rice and beef. A diet of white rice and lean meat seems to work for curing eczema. It worked for Grant, and for me.
Any other version of the low vitamin A diet I have tried makes my eczema come back.
Eating potatoes instead of rice makes my eczema come back. Not immediately, but after a few weeks it just starts with a small itchy spot but it keeps getting worse everyday if I keep eating the potatoes.
Same thing with whole grains, beans, nuts. They also make my eczema come back.
At first I thought it could be the soluble fiber aggravating the vitamin A detox symptoms.
But then I ate cocoa powder 4 days in a row. My eczema flared up hugely after this. Cocoa powder doesn't have much soluble fiber.
So then I started thinking what do cocoa powder, potatoes, whole grains and beans have in common?
These foods are all high in oxalates. Maybe a diet of white rice and meat works because it's low oxalate, not because it's low vitamin A.
I do not get eczema flares from butter, milk and cheese. But I do not feel well if I eat dairy everyday. Eating white rice and meat works best for mental clarity, sharp vision and clear thinking.
Have you ever tried going low oxalate for your eczema?

which other foods contain oxalates? do dates, figs, banannas, coconut oil, pineapple, pomegranate, orange juice, contain those...

 

[Quelsatron]

I also suffer from eczema. It went away completely when I was eating just white rice and beef. A diet of white rice and lean meat seems to work for curing eczema. It worked for Grant, and for me.
Any other version of the low vitamin A diet I have tried makes my eczema come back.
Eating potatoes instead of rice makes my eczema come back. Not immediately, but after a few weeks it just starts with a small itchy spot but it keeps getting worse everyday if I keep eating the potatoes.
Same thing with whole grains, beans, nuts. They also make my eczema come back.
At first I thought it could be the soluble fiber aggravating the vitamin A detox symptoms.
But then I ate cocoa powder 4 days in a row. My eczema flared up hugely after this. Cocoa powder doesn't have much soluble fiber.
So then I started thinking what do cocoa powder, potatoes, whole grains and beans have in common?
These foods are all high in oxalates. Maybe a diet of white rice and meat works because it's low oxalate, not because it's low vitamin A.
I do not get eczema flares from butter, milk and cheese. But I do not feel well if I eat dairy everyday. Eating white rice and meat works best for mental clarity, sharp vision and clear thinking.
Have you ever tried going low oxalate for your eczema?

Are you sure it isn't copper? I think all those contain copper, unlike dairy, meat and rice. And obviously, the vitamin A king that's liver is also the copper king.

 

[DrJ]

It took me 3-4 weeks as I monitored symptoms for me to go to my prior state. This is still taking into account I was consuming plenty of choline promoting nutrients which the vitamin A left my system.

Does this mean that choline helps to eliminate (maybe excess) vitamin A from the liver/body?

 

[Vinero]

which other foods contain oxalates? do dates, figs, banannas, coconut oil, pineapple, pomegranate, orange juice, contain those...

Orange juice and coconut oil are low.
Bananas are medium. Dates are high. Figs and pomegranate are very high.
Pineapple some sources say low but others high.

 

[Vinero]

Are you sure it isn't copper? I think all those contain copper, unlike dairy, meat and rice. And obviously, the vitamin A king that's liver is also the copper king.

I have eaten shellfish like squid and don't notice any negative effects on my skin. I get a distinct copper sensation after eating squid and notice very good vision. With high oxalate foods my vision gets blurry I have noticed.

 

[Dr. B]

Orange juice and coconut oil are low.
Bananas are medium. Dates are high. Figs and pomegranate are very high.
Pineapple some sources say low but others high.

would the other factors in pomegranate and figs help nullify the oxalates... like pomegranate being carbonic anhydrase inhibitor... figs maybe having special nutrition from wasps...

 

[Daniil]

would the other factors in pomegranate and figs help nullify the oxalates... like pomegranate being carbonic anhydrase inhibitor... figs maybe having special nutrition from wasps...

I have seen research that citric acid inhibits oxalate synthesis in the body. But this obviously won't help with oxalates from food. You can eat oxalate-rich foods with calcium. I saw a study in which cheese was enough to reduce the amount of adsorbed oxalate to almost 0.