Vitamin D Theory

Tarmander

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So all this talk lately about vitamin A and D, diet, too much of A, etc, got me thinking.

Now, I have done a cursory overview of the literature on vitamin D, and have not found much, so if anyone has studies either backing up or refuting this theory I would appreciate it.

So this Grant guy goes on a low vitamin A diet and does super well for maybe not those reasons. Many people have pointed out his probable low vitamin D status. Not only that, the claims that high vitamin A causing autoimmune could be flipped and said that autoimmune is caused by low vitamin D. I know type 1 diabetes occurs more in northern climates like Finland, somewhat supporting this through correlation.

Now, my theory goes like this. Our body regulates the amount of vitamin D we intake. This is why you cannot get hypercalcemia by sitting out in the sun. In fact our body seems to work hard to NOT get too much vitamin D(tanning).

What if staring at computer screens tells our body that it is at risk of getting too much vitamin D, and to lower the absorption. You can see that their spectrum of light is entirely different.

Vitamin D abosrption spectrum:
vitamind.gif


Computer screen spectrum:

blue_light_02-2.png


What I would need to find, which I have been looking for, is some kind of connection of vitamin D absorption and light exposure from the eye. If this theory were true, going to the movies would be the worst thing for your vitamin D levels, while laying out in the sun with your eyes in total darkness would be the best thing.

My personal experience backs this up in some ways. I remember trying out haidut's vitamin A years ago and it made me feel a lot like I do if I stare at a computer screen all day. Kind of this shakey, burnt out feeling all over my body.

This would also explain ALOT of anecdotal observations.

Thoughts?
 

Blossom

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I'm glad you started this thread. It seems like a pretty complicated topic with many variables especially at the individual level. I'll be following with interest.
 
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Tarmander

Tarmander

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So sunglasses are good for you?
If true, then it would inform us on why sunglasses are such a commonly used thing, as well as people's attraction to other anti metabolic activities...ie feeling good in rainy weather.
 
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Tarmander

Tarmander

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This would also suggest that taking vitamin D, while perhaps offering temporary relief, would not do much as your body is getting the message that it is at risk of absorbing too much D. Personally, my vitamin D levels have always been on the low end and supplementation for long periods of times does not do much.
 

Lucas

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Vitamin D3 destroyed my legs!! Taking 5.000 iu every day whit 5 mg of K2-MK4 make my legs rusty, heavy, tired, I can’t squat in the gym without felling pain!!

Now, without D3, my legs feel strong and light, and I am loving it!! And my blood was not high, the vitamin D3 on serum was 47,6 ng/ml when I had the heavy legs symptoms.

I think that I don’t need D3, and maybe Morley Robbins is right about saying that is no benefit on vitamin D3 more than 21 ng/ml!
 

tankasnowgod

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So all this talk lately about vitamin A and D, diet, too much of A, etc, got me thinking.

Now, I have done a cursory overview of the literature on vitamin D, and have not found much, so if anyone has studies either backing up or refuting this theory I would appreciate it.

So this Grant guy goes on a low vitamin A diet and does super well for maybe not those reasons. Many people have pointed out his probable low vitamin D status. Not only that, the claims that high vitamin A causing autoimmune could be flipped and said that autoimmune is caused by low vitamin D. I know type 1 diabetes occurs more in northern climates like Finland, somewhat supporting this through correlation.

Now, my theory goes like this. Our body regulates the amount of vitamin D we intake. This is why you cannot get hypercalcemia by sitting out in the sun. In fact our body seems to work hard to NOT get too much vitamin D(tanning).

What if staring at computer screens tells our body that it is at risk of getting too much vitamin D, and to lower the absorption. You can see that their spectrum of light is entirely different.

Vitamin D abosrption spectrum:
vitamind.gif


Computer screen spectrum:

blue_light_02-2.png


What I would need to find, which I have been looking for, is some kind of connection of vitamin D absorption and light exposure from the eye. If this theory were true, going to the movies would be the worst thing for your vitamin D levels, while laying out in the sun with your eyes in total darkness would be the best thing.

My personal experience backs this up in some ways. I remember trying out haidut's vitamin A years ago and it made me feel a lot like I do if I stare at a computer screen all day. Kind of this shakey, burnt out feeling all over my body.

This would also explain ALOT of anecdotal observations.

Thoughts?

Interesting, I think you may be onto something. It would make a lot of sense that the most photosensitive part of us (our eyes) would be the master controller for a photosensitive vitamin made be other parts of our body. This also goes well with Chris Masterjohn's theory and research that suggests A, D and K2 are all needed in balance. I certainly think you should explore this idea more.

Incidentally, in addition to extra Red Light esposure, I also try to reduce my artificial blue light exposure. I use Red backgrounds on all computers, and my phone, have f.lux going on my home computer constantly, and a blue light filter on my phone, and use those dorky looking amber goggles quite a bit.
 
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Tarmander

Tarmander

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Yeah I found those, but they are about vitamin D levels, not vitamin D absorption. The perfect study would be like two groups getting sun exposure, one with eyes covered, one with eyes uncovered, and measuring vitamin D level changes. Something like that.
 

Collden

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If true, then it would inform us on why sunglasses are such a commonly used thing, as well as people's attraction to other anti metabolic activities...ie feeling good in rainy weather.
Its funny cause the alternative health community is all about avoiding sunglasses because they supposedly interfere with the hormonally stimulating effects of sunlight into your retina.

Maybe the fact they all wear sunglasses is how Italians can walk around all year round covered from neck to toes and still not suffer from low metabolism.

Had similar bad experience as Lucas with upping my Vitamin D to 5-10k/day, for a while I felt like it was giving me more energy, but after a week I started to get pain and stiffness in my achilles tendons.

There's a lot of stuff about the current Vitamin D craze that doesnt make sense for sure. For one thing it seems pretty unlikely that the average human throughout history has gotten anywhere close to thousands of IUs per day of Vit D through sun exposure. Sure its theoretically possible if you have pale skin but somehow live at a southern latitude, and habitually like to lie down almost naked in the summer midday sun, and you do that every single day. But seriously most people with pale skin live in places where the sun isnt anywhere near strong enough to give you thousands of IUs/day all year round. And almost everyone who lives in places where the sun is strong enough have dark skin that makes Vit D synthesis far less efficient, and also have the habit of covering themselves up almost completely with clothes and staying out of the sun during the day. You have to really go out of your way with sun exposure to make anything close to the amounts that many people are popping with pills today.
 

charlie

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Had similar bad experience as Lucas with upping my Vitamin D to 5-10k/day, for a while I felt like it was giving me more energy, but after a week I started to get pain and stiffness in my achilles tendons.
Were you taking magnesium with it?
 

TripleOG

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I'm not following.

Are you suggesting (1) excessive blue light runs through Vit. D stores quickly resulting in deficiency or (2) excessive blue light prevents UVB's effect on skin to create Vit. D?
 
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Tarmander

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I'm not following.

Are you suggesting (1) excessive blue light runs through Vit. D stores quickly resulting in deficiency or (2) excessive blue light prevents UVB's effect on skin to create Vit. D?

Maybe both? In this thread, I am suggesting that light entering the eye signals hormonal and other body systems to lower vitamin D absorption, maybe calcium absorption, maybe through lowering parathyroid. Not sure. Looking to flesh this idea out or discard if it is easily refuted.
 

InChristAlone

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Interesting thread. There is something to blue light exposure. Jack Kruse believes it is the cause of insulin resistance. We need to balancing effect of sunrise and sunset as well. Which most humans living inside don't get.
 

benaoao

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Its funny cause the alternative health community is all about avoiding sunglasses because they supposedly interfere with the hormonally stimulating effects of sunlight into your retina.

Maybe the fact they all wear sunglasses is how Italians can walk around all year round covered from neck to toes and still not suffer from low metabolism.

Had similar bad experience as Lucas with upping my Vitamin D to 5-10k/day, for a while I felt like it was giving me more energy, but after a week I started to get pain and stiffness in my achilles tendons.

There's a lot of stuff about the current Vitamin D craze that doesnt make sense for sure. For one thing it seems pretty unlikely that the average human throughout history has gotten anywhere close to thousands of IUs per day of Vit D through sun exposure. Sure its theoretically possible if you have pale skin but somehow live at a southern latitude, and habitually like to lie down almost naked in the summer midday sun, and you do that every single day. But seriously most people with pale skin live in places where the sun isnt anywhere near strong enough to give you thousands of IUs/day all year round. And almost everyone who lives in places where the sun is strong enough have dark skin that makes Vit D synthesis far less efficient, and also have the habit of covering themselves up almost completely with clothes and staying out of the sun during the day. You have to really go out of your way with sun exposure to make anything close to the amounts that many people are popping with pills today.

But Masai got tested for blood vitamin D and all had triple digits blood 25OHd

Edit - my bad, some did since the mean was 115 NMOL/L. So 50ish ng/ml. Consistent with my blood tests - I’ve been maxing out around 50-60, without much supplementation. Would rather do some tanning.

Traditionally living populations in East Africa have a mean serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentration of 115 nmol/l. - PubMed - NCBI
 
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TripleOG

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Maybe both? In this thread, I am suggesting that light entering the eye signals hormonal and other body systems to lower vitamin D absorption, maybe calcium absorption, maybe through lowering parathyroid. Not sure. Looking to flesh this idea out or discard if it is easily refuted.

I'd imagine UVA has a bigger impact on Vit. D creation from UVB than blue light...

Vitamin D levels after UVB radiation: effects by UVA additions in a randomized controlled trial. - PubMed - NCBI
Phototherapy with UVB narrowband, UVA/UVBnb, and UVA1 differentially impacts serum 25-hydroxyvitamin-D3. - PubMed - NCBI
Increased UVA exposures and decreased cutaneous Vitamin D(3) levels may be responsible for the increasing incidence of melanoma. - PubMed - NCBI

...along with erythema limiting exposure times.

Narrow/Mid-band UVB lamps are shown to reliably increase Vit. D to varying degrees. All UVB bulbs give off blue light.
 

Herbie

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Ray has mentioned that a lot of vitamin D is absorbed through the eyes, could ask him.
 

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