Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[aniciete]

A matter of time.

What about peat or other older people who have been eating liver/dairy for 50+ years?

 

[Daniil]

What about peat or other older people who have been eating liver/dairy for 50+ years?

Ray doesn't eat PUFA, and I've eaten tons of PUFA throughout my life.

 

[Daniil]

I think your body will not start a VA detox until you quite deplete PUFA to avoid lipid peroxidation.

 

[Dr. B]

Why do you think some people don’t get vitamin a overload while some do?

it has to be the metabolism and the amount of intake and whether its supplemental, carotene or animal source
theres quotes of Ray saying to limit vitamin A to 5000IU for people with slower thyroid function
the fda 'upper limit' used to be 10000IU, with rda of 5000IU but they downgraded rda to 3000IU a couple years back, not sure of their upper limit view

 

[aniciete]

Ray doesn't eat PUFA, and I've eaten tons of PUFA throughout my life.

So the pufa from dairy, meats, oysters, and eggs is fine? I see lots of talk about keeping pufas under 4g a day but find it hard to believe ray has done so eating lots of dairy/eggs/liver/shellfish

 

[Dr. B]

So the pufa from dairy, meats, oysters, and eggs is fine? I see lots of talk about keeping pufas under 4g a day but find it hard to believe ray has done so eating lots of dairy/eggs/liver/shellfish

he skims the milkfat fat apparently im not sure how much pufa or fat is in liver and shrimp/oyster, i heard he doesnt eat eggs in the US or only has one a day or something
if you avoid eggs and shellfish it helps with keeping pufa lower im not sure its necessary just milk and liver and coconut water/OJ provides almost all the nutrients

 

[tallglass13]

What about peat or other older people who have been eating liver/dairy for 50+ years?

Ray uses thyroid and vit D, both use up and helps get rid of VA. Danny Roddy stated in a Podcast, that once when he thought he did not need thyroid medication, he got very hypothyroid. He eats a supposedly "thyroid diet" to a tee, so how can he get hypo thyroid on the occasions when he does not take his thyroid medicine. This does not make sense to me. This shows me, that a High VA diet, like the one he eats, can make you hypothyroid if you dont take thyroid medicine to offset the hypothyroid symptoms caused by a high VA intake.

 

[Apple]

Yes me too. Black beans give me massive face inflammation. Eczema and also acne on my back. I even developed cysts all over my body during a period of eating beans 3 times a day. It doesn't happen if the beans are eaten sporadically, like once a week or something. But if I eat a portion of black beans or other bean everyday, my face slowly becomes very inflamed. I think it's the soluble fiber or the oxalates in beans. I don't think it's the copper content of beans. Beans aren't that high in copper. I have eaten shellfish like squid everyday for a week which are extremely high in bioavailable copper and I don't get skin problems. Copper from seafood actually lifts my mood and energy. The problem with copper from plant foods in that copper from plants usually comes with large amounts of soluble fiber and oxalates. For example potatoes, nuts, whole grains, and cocoa. All these foods flare up my skin, besides ruining my mood by causing depression and fatigue.

"Black" beans were confirmed to be a good source of iron, zinc and copper. Approximately a portion per meal of cooked black beans (100 g) contains an average of 6.5 mg iron, 4 mg zinc and 1 mg copper. Thus, 100 g of black bean meets the daily requirement for copper (0.9 mg/day), and partially that for iron (8 mg/day) and zinc (8–11 mg/day)".
So if somebody wants to get these minerals and avoid eating liver (vit A) ... black beans is a good sourse
"Black beans were confirmed to be a good source of iron, zinc and copper with a high bioaccessibility of copper (about 70%) from cooked beans. The bioaccessibility of iron and zinc, however, were found to be low (about 0.2% for iron and 35% for zinc)."
Ray Peat eats beans (garbanzos) occasionally

 

[Daniil]

he skims the milkfat fat apparently im not sure how much pufa or fat is in liver and shrimp/oyster, i heard he doesnt eat eggs in the US or only has one a day or something
if you avoid eggs and shellfish it helps with keeping pufa lower im not sure its necessary just milk and liver and coconut water/OJ provides almost all the nutrients

Liver is like lean beef, so there is little pufa, oysters contain only 2 grams fat per 100g. I think he eats something near 4g per day.

I think I ate an average of 30 grams of PUFA throughout my life and it was mostly O6. Basically, these were the sources of sunflower oil, peanuts and fatty chicken.

 

[aniciete]

Ray uses thyroid and vit D, both use up and helps get rid of VA. Danny Roddy stated in a Podcast, that once when he thought he did not need thyroid medication, he got very hypothyroid. He eats a supposedly "thyroid diet" to a tee, so how can he get hypo thyroid on the occasions when he does not take his thyroid medicine. This does not make sense to me. This shows me, that a High VA diet, like the one he eats, can make you hypothyroid if you dont take thyroid medicine to offset the hypothyroid symptoms caused by a high VA intake.

What would you consider high? Like eating liver high or any type of dairy?

 

[tallglass13]

What would you consider high? Like eating liver high or any type of dairy?

good question, however like others on this forum have stated, it all depends on the person. Most people do not get a Auto Immune disease until later in life, after a lifelong bio-accumulation of VA. If someone took Accutane or Retin-A, then it can be faster toxicity. If someone gets alot , alot of sun, they use up the VA easier and faster. If someone takes thyroid, it uses up VA. Tanning beds are something Chris Masterjohn does to help his eczema. Depends on liver health, bile flow, etc.

 

[SamYo123]

Ray uses thyroid and vit D, both use up and helps get rid of VA. Danny Roddy stated in a Podcast, that once when he thought he did not need thyroid medication, he got very hypothyroid. He eats a supposedly "thyroid diet" to a tee, so how can he get hypo thyroid on the occasions when he does not take his thyroid medicine. This does not make sense to me. This shows me, that a High VA diet, like the one he eats, can make you hypothyroid if you dont take thyroid medicine to offset the hypothyroid symptoms caused by a high VA intake.

"2 quartz of milk and 1 quart of orange juice turns the thyroid back on" thats roughly 3k Ius of vitamin A

 

[aniciete]

good question, however like others on this forum have stated, it all depends on the person. Most people do not get a Auto Immune disease until later in life, after a lifelong bio-accumulation of VA. If someone took Accutane or Retin-A, then it can be faster toxicity. If someone gets alot , alot of sun, they use up the VA easier and faster. If someone takes thyroid, it uses up VA. Tanning beds are something Chris Masterjohn does to help his eczema. Depends on liver health, bile flow, etc.

Makes sense, thanks for the insights. I get lots of sunshine so maybe that helps because I drink 2-3 quarts of whole milk and some fresh OJ.

 

[tallglass13]

"2 quartz of milk and 1 quart of orange juice turns the thyroid back on" thats roughly 3k Ius of vitamin A

Well, that sounds really nice and all, but how come Danny Roddy still gets Hypothyroid if he misses his thyroid medicine or has not "dialed" in his thyroid medication just right. Also 3k of VA is just at the RDA.
I continue to listen to Ray's followers on his old radio shows, and one women called in about her Migraines. She was following RP diet to an extreme, and everytime the host or Ray would mention , "are you getting enough sugar", or "are you getting enough calcium" , she would say " Oh, I am getting lots of sugar" etc. However , her Migraine at night were not solved by Ray. At the end of the call, Ray just said, DHEA can help.
Migraines are a major symptom of VA tox.

 

[SamYo123]

Well, that sounds really nice and all, but how come Danny Roddy still gets Hypothyroid if he misses his thyroid medicine or has not "dialed" in his thyroid medication just right. Also 3k of VA is just at the RDA.
I continue to listen to Ray's followers on his old radio shows, and one women called in about her Migraines. She was following RP diet to an extreme, and everytime the host or Ray would mention , "are you getting enough sugar", or "are you getting enough calcium" , she would say " Oh, I am getting lots of sugar" etc. However , her Migraine at night were not solved by Ray. At the end of the call, Ray just said, DHEA can help.
Migraines are a major symptom of VA tox.

Yeh im saying that is low, then peope pile on more vit A foods...

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

Anyone tried eating black beans like ggenreux? They are full of copper by the way ...
Black beans give me immediately skin problems, terrible acne on face, worse than from eggs...

Do they also give you digestive distress? Might be gut bacteria.

 

[Dr. B]

Ray uses thyroid and vit D, both use up and helps get rid of VA. Danny Roddy stated in a Podcast, that once when he thought he did not need thyroid medication, he got very hypothyroid. He eats a supposedly "thyroid diet" to a tee, so how can he get hypo thyroid on the occasions when he does not take his thyroid medicine. This does not make sense to me. This shows me, that a High VA diet, like the one he eats, can make you hypothyroid if you dont take thyroid medicine to offset the hypothyroid symptoms caused by a high VA intake.

does this have to be t3/t4 hormones or does thyroid include bovine thyroid freeze dried gland.

i thought Ray hasnt used t4/t3 for a long time

good question, however like others on this forum have stated, it all depends on the person. Most people do not get a Auto Immune disease until later in life, after a lifelong bio-accumulation of VA. If someone took Accutane or Retin-A, then it can be faster toxicity. If someone gets alot , alot of sun, they use up the VA easier and faster. If someone takes thyroid, it uses up VA. Tanning beds are something Chris Masterjohn does to help his eczema. Depends on liver health, bile flow, etc.

vitamin d3 supplements would also help? wouldnt calcium help, like milk, bones, supplements etc.

Liver is like lean beef, so there is little pufa, oysters contain only 2 grams fat per 100g. I think he eats something near 4g per day.

I think I ate an average of 30 grams of PUFA throughout my life and it was mostly O6. Basically, these were the sources of sunflower oil, peanuts and fatty chicken.

30 grams PUFA per day?

oysters arent too high in PUFA, like 10% pufa.
the total fat from what i remember was high, maybe a third or half as much fat as protein per serving

 

[tallglass13]

The VD thing has been acknowledged by Grant, but I am not sure what is actually going on with VD. SUN light and tanning beds, and thyroid both destroy VA according to Ray Peat. I think Ray is always using cynomel or cynoplus. Ray could be completely right about everything, however, in practice, people are just not seeing the results. VA low diet, people are getting extraordinary results in so little time its hard to deny. Also, I have to keep remembering that even Ray talks about the hypothyroid nature of too high VA and beta carotene. But still recommends super high VA foods.

 

[Apple]

Do they also give you digestive distress? Might be gut bacteria.

I would say the lectins is the problem. Black beans don't give me digestive issues in small amounts. But acne is pretty severe after them. Same with natto (soy beans) and garbanzos.
Common lentils don't give me skin problems , but distress digestion.
Red lentils - no issues at all.

 

[Daniil]

does this have to be t3/t4 hormones or does thyroid include bovine thyroid freeze dried gland.

i thought Ray hasnt used t4/t3 for a long time



vitamin d3 supplements would also help? wouldnt calcium help, like milk, bones, supplements etc.



30 grams PUFA per day?

oysters arent too high in PUFA, like 10% pufa.
the total fat from what i remember was high, maybe a third or half as much fat as protein per serving

Yes, 30g pufa per day. Maybe even 35g. 30 grams is just 3 tablespoons of sunflower oil.

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This database shows that oysters contains only 1,71g of fat.