Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[Apple]

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are you sure? he already had teeth missing on the right side in 2005, you can see it in the video. he also has the slight speech disability in the video due to the teeth missing.
my dentist said my dentin and enamel is simply not very well developed, and probably has never developed properly.
i guess having good health is complicated, especially if you have high energy requirements but were ill as child and the teeth didnt grow as strong as they can. my father has never any issues with his teeth and was never sick as a child.
the orange juice is probably really not too good for the teeth, same with the coke and coffee drinking.

but animals in the wild also get teeth problems, and primitive hunter gatherers like the hadza also get cavities, so i would not over interpret it too much, seems like it is hard to avoid and some people will lose teeth.

But he is consuming so much milk and cheese and corn tortillas ( one tortilla has calcium as glass of milk) and with that amount of calcium he should look like a hulk with all the teeth regenerated like a shark, plus all those hormones he takes, aspirin , cafeine, gelatine...
I 've been taking lots of milk and cheese for the last half year and haven't noticed any improvement with teeth/nails/bones. Still very slim and gaunted face and crackling elbows.
When I'm on vacation...spending lots of time outside (lots of physical activity until really exhausted) and eat just 2 times a day, hotel food, no milk... just some bread , jam coffee.. within a week I look like a normal person , good skin, complexion, smoth joints. Though I can't replicate the result when at home, diet alone is not enough.
It makes me think that his calcium-parathyroid theory is not relevant ... sedentary person doesn't need that much calcium , it just flushes away

 

[Dolomite]

Yes I agree. Same thing with hair, some people have great hair no matter what and some people don't even if they're completely healthy.
Point being, that Grant and others have improved teeth health on the low vitamin A diet.
I feel it's very possible Ray may be completely mistaken about the vitamin A molecule especially in casein. Grant makes a great point that there's an oxidized retinol molecule inside casein which makes it highly cancer-causing and destructive according to t Colin Campbell's work. I do not do well on casein or cottage cheese, I get very drowsy. I would love to be able to use a low-fat yogurt as a main source of protein but I never feel well. It could be from a drop in blood sugar, but I have tried this several times with the same outcome.

I am still eating a low A diet and recently tried to add some regular 2% milk to see if I could overcome lactose intolerance. After only 48 oz over a couple of weeks, I could tell the added Vitamin A was bothering my skin. So I quit. Then I started to add some Fage nonfat Greek yogurt each day and some milk chocolate. I don't think there is any added Vitamin A in those products. So far I haven't noticed any skin problems. I eat a lot of white potatoes, a little rice and white corn tortillas. I always eat the yogurt with some raisins and apple juice so maybe I don't notice any drop in blood sugar. I do notice I get very warm sometimes after eating the and don't know why.

 

[Dolomite]

It makes me think that his calcium-parathyroid theory is not relevant ... sedentary person doesn't need that much calcium , it just flushes away

I have been using calcium carbonate as a supplement in the form of eggshell powder, tablets and a Tums type chewable to get about 2000 mg each day. I think it has really lowered my cortisol and therefore my PTH and the other bad hormones. I wish I had tried this earlier. I was afraid it would lower my stomach acid but I read a study where calcium carbonate increases gastrin secretion so maybe it all works out in the end.

 

[Dr. B]

Yes I agree. Same thing with hair, some people have great hair no matter what and some people don't even if they're completely healthy.
Point being, that Grant and others have improved teeth health on the low vitamin A diet.
I feel it's very possible Ray may be completely mistaken about the vitamin A molecule especially in casein. Grant makes a great point that there's an oxidized retinol molecule inside casein which makes it highly cancer-causing and destructive according to t Colin Campbell's work. I do not do well on casein or cottage cheese, I get very drowsy. I would love to be able to use a low-fat yogurt as a main source of protein but I never feel well. It could be from a drop in blood sugar, but I have tried this several times with the same outcome.

Rays mentioned concerns about a few oxidized products like oxidized vitamin A iirc, as well as oxidized copper and iron in liver supplements, and oxidized cholesterol in whey and other products. but doesnt cooking these things also oxidize them, maybe if you totally submerge the liver in coconut oil and then fry it theres no oxidation but otherwise wouldnt pasteurized milk and cooked liver all contain oxidized vitamin A, iron/copper and cholesterol
doesnt low fat yogurt not have the vitamin A though. and does human breast milk not contain the oxidized retinol molecule

View attachment 29754 View attachment 29755
are you sure? he already had teeth missing on the right side in 2005, you can see it in the video. he also has the slight speech disability in the video due to the teeth missing.
my dentist said my dentin and enamel is simply not very well developed, and probably has never developed properly.
i guess having good health is complicated, especially if you have high energy requirements but were ill as child and the teeth didnt grow as strong as they can. my father has never any issues with his teeth and was never sick as a child.
the orange juice is probably really not too good for the teeth, same with the coke and coffee drinking.

but animals in the wild also get teeth problems, and primitive hunter gatherers like the hadza also get cavities, so i would not over interpret it too much, seems like it is hard to avoid and some people will lose teeth.

Organic OJ does irritate the teeth a bit but nothing like lemonade, or coke. i dont usually get lemonade or coke, even if organic since they use water in them.

mixing OJ with whey powder, or dry milk powder, and maybe baking soda should help negate the acidity and teeth irritating effects
i thought Ray did lose all his teeth when doing some wheat germ experiment
his teeth do seem yellow in the more recent pic? is it due to lots of coffee and coke drinking?

 

[Dr. B]

But he is consuming so much milk and cheese and corn tortillas ( one tortilla has calcium as glass of milk) and with that amount of calcium he should look like a hulk with all the teeth regenerated like a shark, plus all those hormones he takes, aspirin , cafeine, gelatine...
I 've been taking lots of milk and cheese for the last half year and haven't noticed any improvement with teeth/nails/bones. Still very slim and gaunted face and crackling elbows.
When I'm on vacation...spending lots of time outside (lots of physical activity until really exhausted) and eat just 2 times a day, hotel food, no milk... just some bread , jam coffee.. within a week I look like a normal person , good skin, complexion, smoth joints. Though I can't replicate the result when at home, diet alone is not enough.
It makes me think that his calcium-parathyroid theory is not relevant ... sedentary person doesn't need that much calcium , it just flushes away

has anyone regrown teeth before? maybe its harder to regrow them for some reason?
does Ray still use hormones I thought he hasnt used any of them even thyroid for a long time
Milk definitely seems to help teeth especially if drank right after coke or OJ
how much milk have you been drinking

 

[tallglass13]

But he is consuming so much milk and cheese and corn tortillas ( one tortilla has calcium as glass of milk) and with that amount of calcium he should look like a hulk with all the teeth regenerated like a shark, plus all those hormones he takes, aspirin , cafeine, gelatine...
I 've been taking lots of milk and cheese for the last half year and haven't noticed any improvement with teeth/nails/bones. Still very slim and gaunted face and crackling elbows.
When I'm on vacation...spending lots of time outside (lots of physical activity until really exhausted) and eat just 2 times a day, hotel food, no milk... just some bread , jam coffee.. within a week I look like a normal person , good skin, complexion, smoth joints. Though I can't replicate the result when at home, diet alone is not enough.
It makes me think that his calcium-parathyroid theory is not relevant ... sedentary person doesn't need that much calcium , it just flushes away

My sentiments exactly.

 

[redsun]

But he is consuming so much milk and cheese and corn tortillas ( one tortilla has calcium as glass of milk) and with that amount of calcium he should look like a hulk with all the teeth regenerated like a shark, plus all those hormones he takes, aspirin , cafeine, gelatine...
I 've been taking lots of milk and cheese for the last half year and haven't noticed any improvement with teeth/nails/bones. Still very slim and gaunted face and crackling elbows.
When I'm on vacation...spending lots of time outside (lots of physical activity until really exhausted) and eat just 2 times a day, hotel food, no milk... just some bread , jam coffee.. within a week I look like a normal person , good skin, complexion, smoth joints. Though I can't replicate the result when at home, diet alone is not enough.
It makes me think that his calcium-parathyroid theory is not relevant ... sedentary person doesn't need that much calcium , it just flushes away

Because its the saliva that mainly protects the teeth from degeneration and possibly promote regeneration. Minerals are minor players in protecting the teeth directly. High stress or high sympathetic activity leads to acute and chronic dry mouth. Or avoiding choline or anything promoting cholinergic activity. Lets remember that Peat is not a fan of acetylcholine at least in regards to its effect on behavior (but no one NT works in isolation so its hard to put the blame on just one). Perhaps he avoids choline to some degree. I doubt that, but I believe excess sympathetic activity which can be caused by stimulants (like caffeine, of which Peat definitely promotes) or B vitamin/choline deficiency caused by coffee (depletes Bs), empty sugar, low intakes, and increased requirements lead to these issues.

 

[tallglass13]

I am still eating a low A diet and recently tried to add some regular 2% milk to see if I could overcome lactose intolerance. After only 48 oz over a couple of weeks, I could tell the added Vitamin A was bothering my skin. So I quit. Then I started to add some Fage nonfat Greek yogurt each day and some milk chocolate. I don't think there is any added Vitamin A in those products. So far I haven't noticed any skin problems. I eat a lot of white potatoes, a little rice and white corn tortillas. I always eat the yogurt with some raisins and apple juice so maybe I don't notice any drop in blood sugar. I do notice I get very warm sometimes after eating the and don't know why.

Yeah cool. My Raw milk in not fortified, and I have been double skimming it to make a super low fat milk. No adverse reactions.

 

[Dr. B]

Yeah cool. My Raw milk in not fortified, and I have been double skimming it to make a super low fat milk. No adverse reactions.

where do you get the raw milk from? is it an online site doing deliveries
theres a few sites that deliver over the US

Because its the saliva that mainly protects the teeth from degeneration and possibly promote regeneration. Minerals are minor players in protecting the teeth directly. High stress or high sympathetic activity leads to acute and chronic dry mouth. Or avoiding choline or anything promoting cholinergic activity. Lets remember that Peat is not a fan of acetylcholine at least in regards to its effect on behavior (but no one NT works in isolation so its hard to put the blame on just one). Perhaps he avoids choline to some degree. I doubt that, but I believe excess sympathetic activity which can be caused by stimulants (like caffeine, of which Peat definitely promotes) or B vitamin/choline deficiency caused by coffee (depletes Bs), empty sugar, low intakes, and increased requirements lead to these issues.

yeah it seems hes fine with getting the rda of 550mg from diet from eggs milk liver but doesnt like supplementing choline or any methylation boosters like betaine, b12, methionine, etc

i dont know to what extent thiamine hcl boosts acetylcholine, but i seem to tolerate it much better than using creatine or choline bitartrate supps...

how do you increase parasympathetic activity? what factors boost it

 

[tallglass13]

I get the Raw milk from the grocery store by Organic Pastures. they used to make a raw skim milk , but stopped.

 

[Dr. B]

I get the Raw milk from the grocery store by Organic Pastures. they used to make a raw skim milk , but stopped.

if youre in CA that alexandre family farms looks good they have a dried milk powder too made by azure standard. i think the 100% grass fed, organic, A2, vaccine free are more important factors than raw
amos miller farms and dutch meadows farm deliver online

 

[tallglass13]

if youre in CA that alexandre family farms looks good they have a dried milk powder too made by azure standard. i think the 100% grass fed, organic, A2, vaccine free are more important factors than raw
amos miller farms and dutch meadows farm deliver online

Nice, I will take a look at the Dried Milk for storage/prepping.

 

[tallglass13]

Does anyone eat Tilapia for is virtually 0 vA content? yes its farmed, but seems like a solid source of Protein with lower VA than Beef. Tilapia over Organic Jasmine Rice with some soy sauce is delicious.

 

[Dr. B]

Does anyone eat Tilapia for is virtually 0 vA content? yes its farmed, but seems like a solid source of Protein with lower VA than Beef. Tilapia over Organic Jasmine Rice with some soy sauce is delicious.

low fat milks are normally required to be vitamin A/D fortified...
but i think theres an exception in place for yogurts, cheeses, creams, and whey powders and hopefully milk powders
i havent been able to get clarity on whether this powder is fortified with vitamins
their wording is odd
if they just use regular store bought alexandre family farms skim milk and dehydrate it, that stuff has added vitamins
if the milk powder is special made for them by alexandre farms, then it shouldnt be fortified

Organic, non-GMO Food and Produce Delivered - Azure Standard

www.azurestandard.com

its a decent price, shipping can get expensive if your not on west coast. i mixed some in pomegranate juice and it tastes good
"Alexander Family Farm A2/A2 Organic dry milk is obtained by the removal of water from pasteurized A2/A2 Organic milk and is not fortified with vitamins A or D above what may naturally occur."

i also wonder if they use nano particles, Peat mentioned microscopic nanoparticles being used in dried milks as flow agents
i was thinking of using this as a whey powder replacement since dried milk should be less processed. there is an organic a2a2 100% grass fed whey on amazon, $100 for 5 pounds, but two of those are equivalent to 5 bags of these dried milk powders in terms of protein since the whey has only 1g fat and 2g carbs per 21g protein. the milk powder requires a lot more liquid to get 100g+ protein from it compared to whey powder

 

[Kykeon]

his teeth do seem yellow in the more recent pic? is it due to lots of coffee and coke drinking?

i think that is due to lighting, makes little sense to do so much guesswork, one should simply ask. he mentioned in a podcast how one of his teeth became very brittle and crumbled when he was in mexico and did not consume milk because he was not in the store early enough to get milk.

regenerated like a shark, plus all those hormones he takes, aspirin , cafeine, gelatine..

we sadly can not regenerate teeth like that and shark teeth have fluorides incorpareted in them, due to their environment.
mammal teeth suck.

 

[Apple]

i think that is due to lighting, makes little sense to do so much guesswork, one should simply ask. he mentioned in a podcast how one of his teeth became very brittle and crumbled when he was in mexico and did not consume milk because he was not in the store early enough to get milk.

this anecdote doesn't make any sense, to blame lack of milk for his missing teeth. Most people don't even consume milk/dairy and are just fine. Living in Mexico he still had tortillas ...right or some other dairy products. What about leafy greens...or was he starving ?
So if Ray Peat goes without a gallon of milk day or two his teeth start crumbling ?
In real life I don't know any adult person who drinks milk, except for a couple of gym guys ... some eat cheese but not religiously , mostly as a part of pizza couple times a week and their teeth are totally fine.
Ggenereux haven't consumed dairy for years...his teeth/hair are good. Here is his quote :

• My own experience. I’ve had virtually no vitamin C in my diet for the last 5 years, yet I have no sign of scurvy. On the contrary, my teeth and gums are now probably the healthiest they’ve been in the last 20 years.

There is no evidence at all that teeth start crumbling if you don't eat dairy.

 

[InChristAlone]

As an anecdote my almost 13 yr old doesn't consume much dairy besides some ice cream every now and then and has no cavities. But he also doesn't have good energy levels.

 

[Kykeon]

• My own experience. I’ve had virtually no vitamin C in my diet for the last 5 years, yet I have no sign of scurvy. On the contrary, my teeth and gums are now probably the healthiest they’ve been in the last 20 years.

He gets DHAA from meat..

 

[Sefton10]

He gets DHAA from meat..

He only consumes 1500 calories a day (or less). Just doesn’t seem right for a man, he claims his metabolic function is just more efficient, but I think I’d feel dead eating that little for years on end.

 

[Apple]

He only consumes 1500 calories a day (or less). Just doesn’t seem right for a man, he claims his metabolic function is just more efficient, but I think I’d feel dead eating that little for years on end.

He is not aiming for high metabolism...
That's what he says :

I think the explanation for needing fewer calories can be at least partially explained by:

1. Overall metabolism is just running more efficiently.
2. A reduced rate of cellular turnover.
3. A significant reduction in background inflammation. I’ve read that about 25% of our daily calories is used just to fuel our immune system. Now with a low vA status, and my body no longer constantly auto-immuning in a futile struggle to fight off a phantom pathogen I need 20% or so fewer daily calories.

I know a young man who’s also been on a low vitamin A diet for the last two years and he’s reported a very similar finding. His daily calorie intake is about 1/3 to ½ of what it was before he started with the diet.