Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[youngsinatra]

I actually ate a rice-based for one to two years, but it became to bland for me eventually, especially if you cut out most vegetables!
And I was becoming more and more concerned about arsenic in rice, especially because I ate 400-500g of rice a day. (weighed uncooked)

I really like white potatoes because they are so nutrient-dense, especially in important minerals such as potassium, manganese, magnesium and nutrients such as B3, B6 and some B9.

And my blood sugar seems more stable on potatoes instead of rice.

 

[youngsinatra]

why glycine instead of gelatin?
isnt your diet 0 calcium with this setup?

Glycine is more affordable. I need around 30-40g of collagen to get 7-10g glycine.

I use a german mineral water that gives me around 1200mg of calcium via 2 liters a day.

 

[tallglass13]

I have been feeling amazing eating Super Lean ground beef, fresh, with white rice. So last night I decided to eat some grilled cheese, and already feel that drowsy eye feeling. I am so torn, because Ray sounds so convincing. I listened to His Podcast with Kate Deering about Vit D. Ray saying how high Calcium , high VIt D diet plus sugar is the most protective diet.
I have high liver enzymes, and eczema, and they only seem to get better with low Vita A diet. My vision and clarity is so notable as well. However, I always fall back to Ray. It starting to piss me off about myself. I should trust my own feeling and thoughts. We should not have to take a supplement like Vit D to be optimal. Ray talked about how he for most of his life, would sunburn even while driving a car. Now , to me that is Vit A toxicity symptom. But Ray said its Vit D deficiency.

 

[tallglass13]

Glycine is more affordable. I need around 30-40g of collagen to get 7-10g glycine.

I use a german mineral water that gives me around 1200mg of calcium via 2 liters a day.

So mineral water is working for you huh? that's cool, I should try that. I also keep going back to Raw milk, although now I double skim it. Any thoughts on that? Maybe I should cut it out all together. It is so good when added sugar though.

 

[youngsinatra]

I have been feeling amazing eating Super Lean ground beef, fresh, with white rice. So last night I decided to eat some grilled cheese, and already feel that drowsy eye feeling. I am so torn, because Ray sounds so convincing. I listened to His Podcast with Kate Deering about Vit D. Ray saying how high Calcium , high VIt D diet plus sugar is the most protective diet.
I have high liver enzymes, and eczema, and they only seem to get better with low Vita A diet. My vision and clarity is so notable as well. However, I always fall back to Ray. It starting to piss me off about myself. I should trust my own feeling and thoughts. We should not have to take a supplement like Vit D to be optimal. Ray talked about how he for most of his life, would sunburn even while driving a car. Now , to me that is Vit A toxicity symptom. But Ray said its Vit D deficiency.

I agree, following your instincts is hard sometimes.
For example I nearly always felt better being off vitamin D for a week or so here and there but I thought that I miss out on something if I don‘t take it anymore and got back on it.

 

[youngsinatra]

So mineral water is working for you huh? that's cool, I should try that. I also keep going back to Raw milk, although now I double skim it. Any thoughts on that? Maybe I should cut it out all together. It is so good when added sugar though.

I can tolerate dairy just fine lately, but I don‘t really crave it and I just don‘t enjoy having it much.
I prefer a refreshing sparkling mineral water over milk.

 

[Daniil]

So mineral water is working for you huh? that's cool, I should try that. I also keep going back to Raw milk, although now I double skim it. Any thoughts on that? Maybe I should cut it out all together. It is so good when added sugar though.

Nothing prevents you from eating beef and drinking sweet coffee/eating honey. And take calcium supplements. As I do.

 

[Daniil]

Add: I regret forcing myself to eat rice and other starches. Without starch, I have beautiful dark brown poop (no cholestasis). The chair is on schedule (no constipation). No flatulence. Surely my VA detoxification is much better this way than with rice and constipation.

 

[Dr. B]

Personally, I count 1 mcg of any carotenoids in my mind = 1 mcg of retinol. I don't think carotenoid conversion factors make much sense. This makes the diet even more strict.

They took my favorite cherry!

the carotenoids darken the skin if they dont convert
vitamin A, does it lighten the skin then? direct vitaminA intake/supplements

I have been feeling amazing eating Super Lean ground beef, fresh, with white rice. So last night I decided to eat some grilled cheese, and already feel that drowsy eye feeling. I am so torn, because Ray sounds so convincing. I listened to His Podcast with Kate Deering about Vit D. Ray saying how high Calcium , high VIt D diet plus sugar is the most protective diet.
I have high liver enzymes, and eczema, and they only seem to get better with low Vita A diet. My vision and clarity is so notable as well. However, I always fall back to Ray. It starting to piss me off about myself. I should trust my own feeling and thoughts. We should not have to take a supplement like Vit D to be optimal. Ray talked about how he for most of his life, would sunburn even while driving a car. Now , to me that is Vit A toxicity symptom. But Ray said its Vit D deficiency.

what bread did you use for the grilled cheese

when did ray say that, does vitamin A lighten the skin then?

vitamin d deficiency could be similar to vitamin A excess

 

[tallglass13]

the carotenoids darken the skin if they dont convert
vitamin A, does it lighten the skin then? direct vitaminA intake/supplements
what bread did you use for the grilled cheese
when did ray say that, does vitamin A lighten the skin then?
vitamin d deficiency could be similar to vitamin A excess

1. Ray said that he was sunburned for most of his life even while driving in a car through the windshield on the latest Kate Deering interview when he talks about vitamin d.. the whole podcast was about vitamin d. Then Kate asks him how can that be and Ray answered that he just didn't build up enough vitamin d from Sun.. I just don't understand that since Ray is an educated expert on nutrition, but he still has lots of issues just like everyone else.. the teeth issue gets me the most. In the 2005 video of him doing a lecture on YouTube, he appears to have most of his teeth.. then in the video of him in the classroom with Bud Weiss, you can see him worried about his front teeth and he's playing with it with his tongue and at one point looks frightened that his tooth is loosening. So then you have the interview on back of the tiger where he has no more teeth and he's using upper and lower dentures. How is it possible that Ray Peat himself was unable to keep his teeth. Believe me, I am completely aware that most everyone has some problems with their teeth. However we look so highly to Ray and I'm just wondering how could he let that happen. The whole wheat germ story was from a long long time ago, and he still had his teeth in 2005.
2. For the grilled cheese I used sourdough bread with no additives..
3. Yes it appears that vitamin A and d definitely oppose each other in some way, but if you look at Grant and a lot of Garrett's patients they are bringing up their vitamin d by just lowering the retinol intake. I don't think there is any other protocol or program or diet that has this magnitude of successes. Such as reversing diabetes, or reversing hashimoto's, or lowering liver enzymes and significantly lowering cholesterol while still eating copious amounts of red meat. Problem for me is I still look up to Ray and he's the oldest health authority out there that looks at least pretty decent for his age.. every time I watch on the back of a tiger you can see that he has barely any wrinkles, his face skin is taut, and then of course his mental capacity is superb.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Glycine is more affordable. I need around 30-40g of collagen to get 7-10g glycine.

I use a german mineral water that gives me around 1200mg of calcium via 2 liters a day.

Just came to this thread, but what about Proline? I purchased both it and glycine and have been drinking it about 2:1 in water. Since gelatin is 50% other protein and after U eat muscle meat+gelatin its way to much protein in a sitting.

 

[Dr. B]

Just came to this thread, but what about Proline? I purchased both it and glycine and have been drinking it about 2:1 in water. Since gelatin is 50% other protein and after U eat muscle meat+gelatin its way to much protein in a sitting.

what is the ideal glycine to methionine ratio? 1:1? whey has about 1:1 i was curious on ratio in meat

 

[Deleted member 5487]

what is the ideal glycine to methionine ratio? 1:1? whey has about 1:1 i was curious on ratio in meat

I believe so, but you also want proline since it's found in about 2:1(g:p) in collagen. The Body Hydroxlizes Proline to make Hyrdoxproline using vitamin C. When you lack vitamin C your develop scurvy and the body rapidly breakdown.

 

[Apple]

Add: I regret forcing myself to eat rice and other starches. Without starch, I have beautiful dark brown poop (no cholestasis). The chair is on schedule (no constipation). No flatulence. Surely my VA detoxification is much better this way than with rice and constipation.

How are you going to do it without starch ? Just meat and sugar ... beans ?

 

[Daniil]

How are you going to do it without starch ? Just meat and sugar ... beans ?

I have sugar, honey, chocolate and apples. No beans.

 

[Apple]

Problem for me is I still look up to Ray and he's the oldest health authority out there that looks at least pretty decent for his age.. every time I watch on the back of a tiger you can see that he has barely any wrinkles, his face skin is taut, and then of course his mental capacity is superb.

I think he has good skin mostly due to hormone supplements ... Thyroid, Preg, Progesterone

 

[Dr. B]

I believe so, but you also want proline since it's found in about 2:1(g:p) in collagen. The Body Hydroxlizes Proline to make Hyrdoxproline using vitamin C. When you lack vitamin C your develop scurvy and the body rapidly breakdown.

interesting
i was looking at gelatin on amazon and theres a grass fed one vital proteins
they have the full breakdown of amino acids in their gelatin

Amazon product ASIN B00NLQXXDQView: https://www.amazon.com/Vital-Proteins-Beef-Gelatin-Pasture-Raised/dp/B00NLQXXDQ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=beef+gelatin&qid=1627938635&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&smid=A1XFHE53OEJ7QV&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzSktGTzdHRkNKOUVBJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzk4Mzg0M1U0UktGRzRYMVdMSyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMTMwMDE4MjRWRVFBVk9HVURSQyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


based on this it seems gelatin is more a supplement you can use, but it shouldnt be a main protein source or replacement protein source for something like milk, whey etc?
its severely lacking in all the bcaa, and tyrosine, its high in glycine, and has interesting aminos you dont find in other whole foods, like hyrdoxylysine and hydroxyproline
it is very low in histidine and methionine, and has 0 tryptophan
ive heard some say the glycine helps with muscle growth,
when Ray says eating 100g+ protein for example or that he eats 150g protein daily does he include gelatin there
it being so low in bcaa is the biggest concern

how much vitamin C intake do you need daily mate? to avoid scurvy and to properly oxidize proline? doesnt milk and meat contain a lot

 

[maillol]

why glycine instead of gelatin?
isnt your diet 0 calcium with this setup?



what salt do you use and how do you know it was vitamin D, youre sure it was D? no other supplement diet changes when hair thinned? apparently even too much EMF can cause hair loss



good stuff mate, so animal products should lack it, what about coconut water, pomegranate/juice, orange juice, dates, figs, bananna, pineapple?



the OJ could be a lot less in vitamin A then clementine, also would pasteurizing/heating the OJ reduce beta carotene further?
i think mangoes are high in beta carotene too

I use bog standard table salt. Not 100% it was the vitamin D, I need more time off it to be sure but there were no other changes.

 

[Kykeon]

So then you have the interview on back of the tiger where he has no more teeth and he's using upper and lower dentures. How is it possible that Ray Peat himself was unable to keep his teeth. Believe me, I am completely aware that most everyone has some problems with their teeth. However we look so highly to Ray and I'm just wondering how could he let that happen. The whole wheat germ story was from a long long time ago, and he still had his teeth in 2005.

are you sure? he already had teeth missing on the right side in 2005, you can see it in the video. he also has the slight speech disability in the video due to the teeth missing.
my dentist said my dentin and enamel is simply not very well developed, and probably has never developed properly.
i guess having good health is complicated, especially if you have high energy requirements but were ill as child and the teeth didnt grow as strong as they can. my father has never any issues with his teeth and was never sick as a child.
the orange juice is probably really not too good for the teeth, same with the coke and coffee drinking.

but animals in the wild also get teeth problems, and primitive hunter gatherers like the hadza also get cavities, so i would not over interpret it too much, seems like it is hard to avoid and some people will lose teeth.

 

[tallglass13]

View attachment 29754 View attachment 29755
are you sure? he already had teeth missing on the right side in 2005, you can see it in the video. he also has the slight speech disability in the video due to the teeth missing.
my dentist said my dentin and enamel is simply not very well developed, and probably has never developed properly.
i guess having good health is complicated, especially if you have high energy requirements but were ill as child and the teeth didnt grow as strong as they can. my father has never any issues with his teeth and was never sick as a child.
the orange juice is probably really not too good for the teeth, same with the coke and coffee drinking.

but animals in the wild also get teeth problems, and primitive hunter gatherers like the hadza also get cavities, so i would not over interpret it too much, seems like it is hard to avoid and some people will lose teeth.

Yes I agree. Same thing with hair, some people have great hair no matter what and some people don't even if they're completely healthy.
Point being, that Grant and others have improved teeth health on the low vitamin A diet.
I feel it's very possible Ray may be completely mistaken about the vitamin A molecule especially in casein. Grant makes a great point that there's an oxidized retinol molecule inside casein which makes it highly cancer-causing and destructive according to t Colin Campbell's work. I do not do well on casein or cottage cheese, I get very drowsy. I would love to be able to use a low-fat yogurt as a main source of protein but I never feel well. It could be from a drop in blood sugar, but I have tried this several times with the same outcome.