Finally Cured From Post Finasteride Syndrome

[Mister]

• LH= 3.62 IU/L 1.7- 8.6 (It was 4.2 before Tamoxifen)
• FSH= 1.82 IU/L 1.5- 12.4
• Total Testosterone= 6,38 ng/ml (638 ngdl) 2,49- 8,36 (Highest number in my life i guess. It was 490 Before Tamox. 550 at 19 and 460 at 17.)
• Estradiol 66.28 pg/ml 11.3- 43.2 Doubled!
• Prolactin 21.34 ng/ml 4.04- 15.2
• Cortisol (morning)= 26 ug/dL 6,02- 18,4
• Free PSA= 0,438 ng/ml 0.26- 4.14
• TSH 2,83 uIU/ml 0.27- 4.2

IGFBP-3= 4,5 3,4 - 7,8
Progesterone= 0,52 ng/mL
DHEA= 511 ugdL 85- 690
Free T= 20,004 (Unchanged.)
SHBG= 30,3 10- 57 (increased from 23)
IGF- 1= 159 (Has any healthy person tested their IGF-1’s before? Isn’t this is low for a 22 year old? My original level was 212 though.)


So my 8 week Tamoxifen trial didn't turn out well. Zero benefits. Very strangely it increased my TT and E2 but not LH!!! What's going on with me? Should i take Clomid before HCG? HCG gonna decrease my LH anyways, right? Should i use an AI with HCG cuz my E2 is 66 now? Hopefully that will decrease.

I am thinking to start HCG this week, JoeKool's dosages. I odered bac water and 26g 1cc insuline needles. What i don't understand still is that, how am i going to dose 250iu each time? And can i mix the bac water and HCG powder and store it that way? How much should i mix and how can i dose 250iu thanks?!

You had a test level of 460 at age 17 but did you have PFS/PAS already back then?

 

[wildworld1992]

Well the only thing you need to change is the amount of liquid in that case.

Take 3 of your HCG vials, each with 1500 IU of powder in them. You can reconstitute each of them with 1 mL of water. Draw up the contents of each HCG vial and transfer them to a 10 mL mixing vial, and add an additional 1.5 mL water which will give you 4500 IU per 4.5 mL of water (1000 IU per 1 mL), same as Joe's.

You draw 0.25 mL each time you give yourself a shot.

Do you inject cold HCG solution or wait it to reach room temperature then inject?

 

[JoeKool]

@wildworld1992 inject cold. Don’t let it sit out

 

[MitchMitchell]

@Cooper this proves that SERMs are absolutely useless, at best they tweak around your numbers, most likely via estrogenic antagonism at the receptor level causing E2 resistance, at worst you feel like **** and your cortisol, prolactin, TSH also go way high. Meanwhile Tamoxifen is famous for crushing IGF1.

It needs to be clearer that HCG is THE main solution for PFS/PAS, and if TSH looks wonky free t4 and free t3 must be optimized as well. T3 also very useful to control excess dht/e2 from HCG and might increase cortisol metabolism (T3 increases SHBG and lowers CBG)

Opposite effects of thyroid hormones on binding proteins for steroid hormones (sex hormone-binding globulin and corticosteroid-binding globulin) in humans - PubMed

Sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) and corticosteroid-binding globulin (CBG) levels were evaluated in euthyroid (N = 111), hyper- (N = 58) and hypothyroid (N = 38) men, in pre- and postmenopausal women (study 1) and in hyper- (N = 24) and hypothyroid (N = 15) patients before and after treatment...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

New approach in treatment of hyperandrogenism with triiodothyronine | BES2004 | 23rd Joint Meeting of the British Endocrine Societies with the European Federation of Endocrine Societies | Endocrine Abstracts

www.endocrine-abstracts.org

 

[MyUsernameHere]

I am not sure that Proviron is the right way to go out about suppressing yourself / flattening androgen receptors.

Even on 200 mg of Proviron I did not get that feeling that I get from upping endogenous DHT production. For instance, if I start supplementing creatine, or eating sorghum regularly, both of those are known to increase 5-AR enzyme, and consequently DHT. This is a stronger and more natural feeling than taking Proviron IMO.

Possibly applying bioidentical DHT would be the second best way to go about this, if only we had a legitimate source for DHT gel or powder (not sure if PurplePandaLabs is legit).

 

[TheBeard]

I am not sure that Proviron is the right way to go out about suppressing yourself / flattening androgen receptors.

Even on 200 mg of Proviron I did not get that feeling that I get from upping endogenous DHT production. For instance, if I start supplementing creatine, or eating sorghum regularly, both of those are known to increase 5-AR enzyme, and consequently DHT. This is a stronger and more natural feeling than taking Proviron IMO.

Possibly applying bioidentical DHT would be the second best way to go about this, if only we had a legitimate source for DHT gel or powder (not sure if PurplePandaLabs is legit).

No.
My experience with bioidentical DHT tought me that it crashes e2 just like proviron does and anihilates libido.
The only viable option is to increase endogenous DHT and e2 via scrotal application of testosterone.

 

[wildworld1992]

Here is a video for mixing HCG

 

[MitchMitchell]

Plus Proviron has been studied zillions of times, does very little at the AR, binds to shbg at a higher affinity than DHT>T>E2, causing negative feedbacks and people end up with the same levels of (low) free hormones and less total T than prior to Proviron. It’s only somewhat useful in men with very high shbg and on exogenous T

 

[Mister]

Plus Proviron has been studied zillions of times, does very little at the AR, binds to shbg at a higher affinity than DHT>T>E2, causing negative feedbacks and people end up with the same levels of (low) free hormones and less total T than prior to Proviron. It’s only somewhat useful in men with very high shbg and on exogenous T

What do you think about clomid?

 

[MyUsernameHere]

No.
My experience with bioidentical DHT tought me that it crashes e2 just like proviron does and anihilates libido.
The only viable option is to increase endogenous DHT and e2 via scrotal application of testosterone.

That's unlikely to work very well for me though (or for people whose 5-AR activity is lacking in general, i.e. most PFS sufferers). Whenever I increase testosterone I end up with gut bloat and water retention since most of it goes to E2 and very little to additional DHT.

For whatever reason 5-AR activity still isn't at normal levels (the very thing we're trying to fix in this thread).

I believe I need something that can't aromatize and can completely saturate ARs to cause negative feedback loop and shutdown, in the hopes that when I then get back on HCG it finally skyrockets my 5-AR back to normal.

 

[TheBeard]

That's unlikely to work very well for me though (or for people whose 5-AR activity is lacking in general, i.e. most PFS sufferers). Whenever I increase testosterone I end up with gut bloat and water retention since most of it goes to E2 and very little to additional DHT.

For whatever reason 5-AR activity still isn't at normal levels (the very thing we're trying to fix in this thread).

I believe I need something that can't aromatize and can completely saturate ARs to cause negative feedback loop and shutdown, in the hopes that when I then get back on HCG it finally skyrockets my 5-AR back to normal.

I'm talking specifically about transcrotal testosterone cream that has completely different pharmacodynamics from injections.
Everyone has 5ar enzyme on the scrotum, and doing so will create a forwad feeding loop for DHT.

 

[Cooper]

You had a test level of 460 at age 17 but did you have PFS/PAS already back then?

Yes i had PAS then. I got it since 16. But my only symptom was lowered semen volume in the first years of suffering. I never experienced soft erections, maybe %10 loss of hardness but that was all. Is 460 was low for 17 y.o? I remember seeing a age chart and 450's were present in healthy boys.
My Free T seemed tk be always at 20, which is nice?

One little question, do you think PAS at 16 could have damaged my bodily development? Like jaw bone, jawline, shoulder bone and masculine feature growth? If so, how and why. I only took the poison for 3 days btw. Thanks. (I was an inch shorther then my dad at 16, now we are at same height. 1.78.5)

 

[MyUsernameHere]

I'm talking specifically about transcrotal testosterone cream that has completely different pharmacodynamics from injections.
Everyone has 5ar enzyme on the scrotum, and doing so will create a forwad feeding loop for DHT.

Sounds fancy, like it needs to be compounded by a pharmacy and handed out on prescription. I wouldn't have any idea where to obtain something like that. Unless you know of such products...

 

[Cooper]

I have one little question, so we use bac. water to avoid sodium chloride to mix with the HCG powder and make the solution for single use. However, the bac. water i bought states it has 0.9% S.cld. in it.. what the hell?

Is this normal?
Am i good to go with this and can store my hcg well? Thanks.

 

[JoeKool]

Hey @Cooper

Plain Sodium Chloride won’t necessarily make the hcg single use, it’s just not recommended to inject and draw from a mix of hcg and Sodium Chloride because you can get bacteria in the mix. The BAC water should have alcohol in it, a small amount, to kill bacteria that may result in continuous drawing. (Always use a clean needle to puncture the rubber stopper but this is how bacteria could be introduced into your mixed HcG)

In other words, sodium chloride won’t damage the hcg, but it’s not a good idea to store it and draw from it over and over.

My concern though is that the company you bought bac water from is not adding .9% benzyl Alcohol but rather .9% sodium chloride, which is not the same and hence, not bac water despite their labeling. If the back of that vial has any mention of .9% BnOH, then it’s bac water.

 

[Beefsnacks]

First post, been on the pure HCG protocol for some time and ongoing today. I'd say I'm on week 9 so far, mental effect are good. Last week my libido seemed to come back a bit so that was nice. My question is probably a dumb idea and I'm more then sure someone hear more intelligent will have a better response to it. What do you guys think about running a post cycle drug like clomid or nolvadex after the 6 months? If I notice that most of my symptoms are better / done after the initial 6 months I'll keep on the HCG for another 3 months. Interested to see what you guys think

 

[JoeKool]

Hey @Beefsnacks Oh man I'm happy to hear you have some benefits ! Want to share some quick milestones so ppl have an idea what to expect (I was planning a more detailed list of my personal milestones but didn't have a chance to)

I have a couple points to try to tackle here but good question & I've been chatting with someone about different HCG protocols based on the range of efficacious dosages because one size doesn't fit all based on the trials here. But here goes:

First, I want to reiterate something that even I've used incorrectly. Though HCG is an LH mimetic, it is NOT LH. I've used them interchangeably but that's wrong. (There's actually some more studies on HCG's positive effect on nerves) So there's certainly some merit to wanting something post HCG to combat that lull period when things naturally come back online. I didn't use anything when I stopped HCG but some users aromatize more than others, so there's some use cases for an enclomid, for example, which'll help your natural LH come back quicker. I've always erred on the side of caution and 'less chemicals' (plus my less is more strategy of slow & steady. Lower dose over the longer term will solidify the results without overwhelming us in several aspects) but it could help some.

Second, i've always wanted ppl to be monitored for E levels, for example. I can only speak of my experience coming off HCG but, the truth is, your data would be extremely valuable to everyone here if you manage to bypass that lull period. In the case of clomid/enclomid, you would only need 25mg/day or 50mg/eod because we wouldn't be combating supraphysiological Estrogen levels from testosterone injections (if you're reading up on clomid for PCT, you'll see it at 100mg a day for example. That's because when coming off testosterone, the body would have EXTREMELY high levels of Estrogen floating around and you'll be shutdown from the cycle so it'll be unopposed and a recipe for estrogen disaster such as gynocomastia. These numbers are not what we're dealing with here on HCG monotherapy). But you likely get the idea.

Great question and i'm psyched your seeing the mental benefits already and signs of libido. It should continue to improve. Welcome aboard

 

[FinVictim]

Hey all. Reporting in. Also started the 250IU hCG EOD protocol (not doing MWF as there's no supporting literature for a resting day) under supervision of an andrologist-urologist. Currently one month in, unfortunately not noticing any effects yet. But we'll see where it goes.

My story:
Sporty 29 year old, athletic build (BMI 23), healthy varied diet since a young age. Used finasteride 1mg for 20 days back in March 2020. I quit immediately after noticing erectile dysfunction, severe loss of libido, watery semen and loss of genital sensitivity. These side effects never went away. Over the course of last year I've also been noticing anhedonia, flat emotions, both positive and negative. Apart from the sexual side effects I'm most worried about the anhedonia and not being able to enjoy life as much as I used to anymore. It's in the smallest of things, for instance: the sharpness of looking forward to and enjoying a cup of good coffee is nowhere near what it used to be.

My pre-hCG lab results. For the record: these are 8 months after finasteride use without trying any treatment yet.
Blood results 15th dec 2020

LH	2,2 U/L	1,0 - 8,4 U/L
FAI	75	30 - 85
Free testosteron	398 pmol/L	165 - 655 pmol/L

Testosteron

15 nmol/L

9 - 30 nmol/L

SHBG

20 nmol/L

13 - 71 nmol/L

Prolactin

0,16 U/L

0 - 0,3 U/L

PSA (EPSA)

1,1 µg/L

0,0 - 3,0 µg/L

TSH (TSH)

2,3 mE/L

0,5 - 5 mE/L

Thanks a lot for sharing your story and sticking around Joe. What would be very helpful to know is what exactly you did before you started the low dose hCG protocol. Since PFS is such a serious condition of which we don't know the mechanism yet, it would be extremely helpful to gather all the information we can from people who feel cured. Especially in case low dose hCG turns out to not work for some people.
Hypothetically speaking you could have asymptomatically tweaked something in the brain with medication you used prior to low dose hCG. What were the exact regimens you performed before you turned to hCG?

I will keep everyone updated.

 

[TheBeard]

Sounds fancy, like it needs to be compounded by a pharmacy and handed out on prescription. I wouldn't have any idea where to obtain something like that. Unless you know of such products...

NP compounding pharmacy in Greece.
Or simply ordering test base powder and DMSO and mixing them.

 

[MitchMitchell]

What do you think about clomid?

Very bad idea. Do NOT block estradiol at the receptor sites