Exercise the Ray Peat way?

[AlisonG]

I have heard Ray say that though he believes its beneficial to be active in one's work, though he's not a proponent of intense and episodic exercise. I understand this has to do with stress-response and inflammation. I would really like to know:

1) What guidelines would someone follow in order to do cardio exercise safely (ie. Peatly)
2) What is the cascade of events in the body when cardio is done unsafely (Un-Peatly)
3) What guidelines would someone follow in order to do muscle-building exercise safely (Peatly)
4) What is the cascade of events in the body when muscle-building exercise is done unsafely (Un-Peatly)

 

[Tom K]

Your terms are vague when asking for specific advice. However, there are tenants that may be of interest.
1. Long. drawn out 'cardio' is ill advised. MRI of regular participation in high levels of cardio reveals greater arterial plaque than the arteries of couch potatoes. Participants in cardi have a greater incidence of atrial fibrillation. Walk.
2. We are caveman with cell phones. An original phrase I have stated is, "No one jogged away from a lion." We are designed to walk or run like hell chasing lunch, or from becoming lunch." Walk and sprint. Lift intensely (to ot approaching momentary failure).
3. Intense short bouts of resistance exercise produces the same metabolic improvements in blood markers as long cardio without the vascular degradation associated with plaque to acquire muscle mass. There will be debate as to which is better, training to failure with one set, ot multiple sets sub failure. The differences statistically between the gym rat (multiple sub failure sets) and the shorter higher intensity muscular failure routines are insignificant. If you like the idea of spending hours in the gym, help yourself to the multiple sets group. If time is important, train intensely and briefly to failure.
4. The greatest determinants of muscle acquisition are genetically governed.. They include physiological cross section, muscle belly length, and the most important being the myostatin deletion mutation that is common among bodybuilders and mass oriented athletes. Choose your parents wisely.
5. If performing high intensity workouts, the stronger a person becomes, the more rest required. This principle is true when using ergogenic aids (anabolic steroids) and especially true when natural without steroids.

 

[-Luke-]

You may be interested in the last two episodes of the Energy Balance Podcast (Ep. 80 and 81). They talk about these topics and are influenced by the work of Ray Peat (I haven't listened tp Ep 81 yet).

The Energy Balance Podcast

Discover how you can live without constant hunger and fatigue, brain fog, poor sleep, and other low-energy symptoms. The Energy Balance Podcast will teach you how to maximize your cellular energy so you can take back your health and finally experience clear-headed focus, restful sleep, and...

player.fm

The following points are my own opinion and Ray Peat might not necessarily agree with them:

1) Use nose breathing as an indicator. Walking, hiking or cycling at a moderate pace. You can do low intensity and moderate/higher volume or high(er) intensity and low volume (short sprints for example - even though they are not considered "cardio"). Eat enough carbohydrates before and after (and possibly during) the activity. You could take some Vitamin B1 after exercising for possible buildup of lactic acid and CO2.

2) Not a cascade, just a list of possible problems: loss of CO2 (therefore better low intensity and nose breathing), buildup of lactic acid (promotes inflammation), release of free fatty acids, release of stress hormones, suppression of the thyroid, joint and muscle problems, can be catabolic, ...

3) Here's a thread with some information: "Peaty" hypertrophy training

3) + 4) I think that resistance training is safer than endurance training in general. Stay out of the "no pain, no gain" and "the more, the better" mindset. Don't combine high(er) volume and high(er) intensity. Make sure to have enough rest and fuel. Problems could be the same as in 2) if done "wrong".

It always depends on the context: I you want to run a marathon in <2:30h or want to become a pro bodybuilder, "peaty" guidelines won't get you there.

 

[mrchibbs]

From listening to Ray over the years, I think resistance training with ample rest is the most suitable activity to compensate the sedentary nature of our lives. Having well developed muscles is very protective all around.

Walking and hiking in nature are also phenomenal. Rowing, bouldering, golf are other nice outdoor activities. But a good rule of thumb is that anything which is enjoyable will lead to constructive, anabolic processes and anything that's not will cause stress and catabolic processes.

So a game of basketball, baseball, football etc. anything that's with friends and stimulating will be good.

The big no-no's are endurance training; jogging etc. and overtraining in general.

 

[mayku-T-meelo]

Chop up some wood or do some other purposeful work outside.

 

[Apple]

Ray Peat exercises once every 10 years. In one of the interviews he mentioned how he performes single leg squats ( ten reps on each leg) every 10 years or so. This way he knows that his muscles are still toned.

 

[BodhiBlues]

I think that the main thing would be to avoid over-stressing your body. People have a very masochistic approach to exercise, no pain no gain and all that, which I think is very destructive. When I took that approach I had cold symptoms a lot after exercise which made the whole thing miserable.

My approach these days is to only exercise breathing through my nose. When you feel the need to breathe through your mouth it is a good indication that you are stressing your body.

With strength training, this means limiting the number of exercises that I do per gym session and leaving a decent gap between sets to recover.

With running, I don't like jogging slowly, so I jog fairly fast or sprint and then switch to walking when I can't breathe through my nose anymore.

I have found that exercising this way greatly reduces recovery time and actually makes it very enjoyable.

 

[Mastemah]

I train people in various methods of exercise, all pro metabolic. The programming is the key.

Kettlebells
Olympic lifts
Isometrics
Dynamic flexibility
Sprinting
Throwing
Bodyweight
Sledgehammer

Theres many fun ways to train that are oro metabolic.

 

[mrchibbs]

I train people in various methods of exercise, all pro metabolic. The programming is the key.

Kettlebells
Olympic lifts
Isometrics
Dynamic flexibility
Sprinting
Throwing
Bodyweight
Sledgehammer

Theres many fun ways to train that are oro metabolic.

Mind sharing one of your routines implementing these exercises?

 

[eimearrose]

I've been a competitive runner for quite a few years now and it has not been a good thing for my health. I have pancreatic insufficiency, at a few times had colitis, have osteopenia, had long spells of hypogonadism (stopped periods in females). Other minor issues were going blue after training and racing, lots of stress fractures, insomnia, insatiable hunger, mild acne, and my TSH when I finally stopped the madness was 3.16 which I consider to be hypothyroid. I do enjoy running though and since re-engaging with Ray Peat's work I'm working on finding a less harmful way to train. I'm fully prepared to give up running if I can't achieve a reasonable level of health.

Traditional running training is pretty intense. Most serious athletes do a long run usually on a Sunday, and the other week days are double runs, with 2-3 of these individual runs being specific sessions such as sub threshold sustained running, track repetitions, hill repetitions. A lot of amateur athletes like myself train like this even though it is little different from full time athletes who don't work and have more time to recover. A minority of athletes do some resistance training as well, with an even smaller group doing actual barbell/dumbbell work.

Currently I strength training 3 times a week in a traditional legs/push/pull split it's all 4-6 sets of 5-8 reps. I'm running with mouth closed every other day for around about 30 minutes. I used to be obsessed with my GPS watch but I threw it in the bin to be guided by my internal feeling instead. I've just recently reintroduced one track session a week, I used to do 2, and I haven't restarted a long run, and I might not, or at least not do it on a weekly basis and limit it to an hour instead of the previous 2+ hours (!!) instead of the extra running I'm walking leisurely a few times a week for about an hour and I do a few hours of gardening most weekends. I used to not have time and energy for the latter two.
I don't kid myself that even this pared down approach is perfectly healthy and I think the only way to make it work is a lot of supportive nutrition, plenty of rest and targeted supplements. I currently supplement sodium bicarbonate, methylene blue, aspirin, progest-e, cascara, vitamin D and K2, and dessicated thyroid extract but considering switching to something like tyromix as I think I could benefit from more T3.
I'm interested to see if I can achieve similar times to my heavy underfuelled training. Although I consider racing to be extremely stressful and from now on I'll only do it when I feel I optimal condition rather than doing the races I used to believe were the most important. Racing unwillingly is probably the most stressful thing you can do in sport.
Further suggestions to the training and supplements are welcome.

 

[Mastemah]

Mind sharing one of your routines implementing these exercises?

Brett Jones just came out w a book/ video called Iron Cardio. Its a good example. A single clean press then squat w a kettlebell. Rest. Do other side. Dont chase fatigue. Do for 10-40 minutes. You naturally get general endurance vs ‘cardio’. You collect singles instead of pushing lactate burn. You could do a jerk instead of a press. So much better.

 

[Sapien]

This is a topic I have been pondering as of late, as a peaty young male looking to build muscle safely and effectively. Ray mentions that muscle mass is beneficial as it increases RMB, and also cited studies that show bodybuilders live longer. However, he has concerns with the eccentric stuff and lactic acid production.

So in summary- a good training routine is one that builds muscle, avoids eccentric movements, and minimizes muscle oxygen debt (i.e, "the pump) as it increases lactic acid.

He once said something along the lines of "brief, infrequent use of muscle is good" (probably butchered the quote but something along those line)

His advice reminded me of a famous bodybuilder in the 80's, Mike Mentzer, who postulated that all bodybuilders are overtraining, and the principals of muscle growth only required a brief and infrequent session to momentary muscular failure. Interestingly, in Synchronicity fashion, I discovered Ray's work just weeks after discovering Mentzer. I noticed great crossover between the two. Mentzer actually cited Hans Selyes "the stress of life" in one of his books about the harms of overtraining, which blew me away. Even Mikes nutritional advice was peaty, emphasizing the importance of (simple) carbohydrates and sugar, and dispelling the myth of the whey(ste product) protein industry that you needed to overload the body with protein to build muscle.

He has some great lectures on youtube on the topic of HIT, specifically, his audio tapes: The logical path to successful bodybuilding are a MUST watch for anyone interested in the topic of building muscle. He was a very intelligent man, many regarded him as a philosopher, and after watching these tapes you will realize why. His articulate speaking manner and use of logic is extremely impressive. He dispels much of the authoritarian dogma in the fitness industry, and like Peat, attempts to teach one about the science behind the topic rather than just giving a protocol. In other words, he was a proponent of "Perceive, Think, Act".

In my opinion, the theory of High Intensity Training is the most logical, science backed theory of effective exercise, and is the antithesis of the current state of bodybuilding- high volume "pump" style workouts popularized by Arnold (Mentzer's arch nemesis).

His training was based on the work of a man named Arthur jones, the inventor of Nautilus equipment proved that brief exercise to failure is the optimal way to build muscle

There is a book titled "body by science" that goes into this in more detail for anyone interested. Mentzer also has serval books of his own

As peaty as all of this sounds, minimizing the amount of stress to the organism and only doing the bare minimum required, there is still the concern of both eccentric movements and lactic acid, albeit to a DRASTICALLY lower degree.

Coauthor of body by science, John Little (a friend and disciple of Mentzer), has a program that implements these principals of brief, infrequent maximal effort training, AND eliminates these two issues. I present to you: Max contraction training (link). He talks about how a scientist in the 50s proved great results simply by a maximal muscular contraction of just 1-6 seconds.

I have applied this routine to a degree, simply contracting a muscle as hard as possible either on its own or against an immovable object (isometric), briefly and infrequently, and I honestly have had better results doing this the past 2 months than in years of traditional bodybuilding. Each day I wake up in amazement of my progress. I will see muscles that I never knew I had; a couple days after a single pull up I noticed new muscles in my upper back that I had never seen before; after a single rep of a chest contraction I grew my stubborn upper chest more in one workout that I never seemed to build with years of bench press (
"Why I never bench press and you shouldn't either" ) .

Some examples of exercises I will do are: flexing bicep in maximal contracted position as hard as possible by using a doorknob, doing the concentric part of a pull up and maximally contracting for a few seconds at the top then dropping, contracting hamstring by lying down placing heel against the ground, holding the contracted portion of a "mountain climber" pose or sit up for abs, simply contracting my rhomboids or rear delts super hard, doing a "lateral raise" against the bottom of my work desk to provide an immovable resistance, placing my forearm against the back of my (opposite) hamstring and contracting my chest across my body, etc etc. Pretty much anything that you feel a contraction will be effective, you can play around yourself. Using weights in a manner shown in the max contraction video is probably just as if not more viable, but I have seen great results even without going to the gym. The many forms of Isometrics I mentioned, contracting against an immovable object, will provide great stimulation as it will recruit ALL of the possible muscle fibers MAXIMALLY. This is a key principal of HIT (henemens size principal), fatiguing the fast twitch muscle fibers. It can be achieved in any rep range by simply training to failure, but isometrics allow you to do so with minimal/no lactic acid as only one contraction is required.

There was a wrestler named the great gama, who is famous for going 5000-0 in his bouts (yes you read that right) , who touted the benefits of maximal isometric contractions that inspired me to use immovable objects instead of the weights shown in the max contraction video. (that and I don't have a training partner crazy enough to train this way with me lol) Essentially it is the same concept, providing maximal resistance, stimulating the fast twitch muscle fibers ( henemens size principal).

'One day after defeating an opponent much larger than he, someone asked him how he was able to get so strong.' "
“It’s really quite simple,” the Indian said good-naturedly. “In the Punjab, where I lived there was a large tree behind my house. Each morning I would rise up early, tie my belt around it, and try to throw it down.” “A tree?” the boy marveled. “For twenty years.” “And you did it?” “No, little one,” Gama smiled, “but after a tree…a man is easy.” Great gama (link) .

^ This may sound like "bro science", but it actually is an example of "Heneman's size principal" in action. When contracting against an immovable object, you are using ALL of your possible effort, thus stimulating fast twitch muscle fibers.

This all may sound unbelievable, too good to be true; is it really not only possible but OPTIMAL to train this brief and infrequently?; but when one considers the biochemistry of the subject, it makes sense. Muscles are ANEROBIC, the opposite of AEROBIC exercise. This is why sprinters have very muscular legs, while a marathon runner is almost always frail. High intensity, short duration exercise such as sprinting uses predominantly fast twitch, carbohydrate burning fibers, while jogging uses slow twitch fibers that rely on fat. It is the fast twitch muscle fibers that are a lot more prone to growth

While the principals of HIT have been demonstrated scientifically ( View: https://youtu.be/ag5YMTcAudw, View: https://youtu.be/NndeNFVf9eU , View: https://youtu.be/wVYEjFZAERw ), and shown to work in practice by the success of Mentzer and Dorian Yates, these principals have been all but forgotten. It was only through an unrelenting, thorough search for a logical approach to building muscle that I discovered HIT. I have always been unconvinced of the science of traditional bodybuilding; I would follow routines and wonder WHY 3 sets of 10 ( View: https://youtu.be/hddsfYdaZ1k ), why 2 minutes of rest, why not 53 seconds of rest? All of these arbitrary decrees never sat right with me. In science, there is no room for the arbitrary, The principals of HIT initially defined by Arthur Jones and popularized by Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates use science and logic, rather than the arbitrary tradition based programs that are popular today.

As to why it's unknown and forgotten, I don't really have a good answer other than the fact that we live in a "dark age" to some degree, with sheeple believing whatever the popular opinion is, rather than using the logical principals created by Aristotle to cultivate knowledge. It is through the use of logic and reason that I was able to discover ray peat and the community, rather than believing whatever info the dietary guidelines told me, and these same principals of logic led me to discover HIT. As a group of logic based people who Perceive, Think, Act; rather than cultivating information simply because an authority figure told you something, I know you all will really appreciate the science based approach of HIT.

The implications of this are staggering. The entire fitness industry is following the high volume approach simply out of tradition, not logic or science. I wonder how many people's lives would be changed with a proper approach to building muscle, how many more people would take up the sport if only minutes a week were necessary. Hell, a gym membership isn't even required! If anyone decided to try these principals out for themselves (after thorough evaluation of the logic of the theory, not per my advice , {Perceive Think Act!}), please update us with your results!

(P.S , I probably did a poor job explaining the exact science behind HIT, Henemens size principal, fast twitch muscles etc., I recommend reading the works of Dr Doug mcguff, Mike mentzer, Arthur jones and the content of Jay Vincent. This post was a spur of the moment thing after seeing this forum on the home page, I just did my best based on my knowledge of the topic)

 

[Osukhan]

This is a topic I have been pondering as of late, as a peaty young male looking to build muscle safely and effectively. Ray mentions that muscle mass is beneficial as it increases RMB, and also cited studies that show bodybuilders live longer. However, he has concerns with the eccentric stuff and lactic acid production.

So in summary- a good training routine is one that builds muscle, avoids eccentric movements, and minimizes muscle oxygen debt (i.e, "the pump) as it increases lactic acid.

He once said something along the lines of "brief, infrequent use of muscle is good" (probably butchered the quote but something along those line)

His advice reminded me of a famous bodybuilder in the 80's, Mike Mentzer, who postulated that all bodybuilders are overtraining, and the principals of muscle growth only required a brief and infrequent session to momentary muscular failure. Interestingly, in Synchronicity fashion, I discovered Ray's work just weeks after discovering Mentzer. I noticed great crossover between the two. Mentzer actually cited Hans Selyes "the stress of life" in one of his books about the harms of overtraining, which blew me away. Even Mikes nutritional advice was peaty, emphasizing the importance of (simple) carbohydrates and sugar, and dispelling the myth of the whey(ste product) protein industry that you needed to overload the body with protein to build muscle.

He has some great lectures on youtube on the topic of HIT, specifically, his audio tapes: The logical path to successful bodybuilding are a MUST watch for anyone interested in the topic of building muscle. He was a very intelligent man, many regarded him as a philosopher, and after watching these tapes you will realize why. His articulate speaking manner and use of logic is extremely impressive. He dispels much of the authoritarian dogma in the fitness industry, and like Peat, attempts to teach one about the science behind the topic rather than just giving a protocol. In other words, he was a proponent of "Perceive, Think, Act".

In my opinion, the theory of High Intensity Training is the most logical, science backed theory of effective exercise, and is the antithesis of the current state of bodybuilding- high volume "pump" style workouts popularized by Arnold (Mentzer's arch nemesis).

His training was based on the work of a man named Arthur jones, the inventor of Nautilus equipment proved that brief exercise to failure is the optimal way to build muscle

There is a book titled "body by science" that goes into this in more detail for anyone interested. Mentzer also has serval books of his own

As peaty as all of this sounds, minimizing the amount of stress to the organism and only doing the bare minimum required, there is still the concern of both eccentric movements and lactic acid, albeit to a DRASTICALLY lower degree.

Coauthor of body by science, John Little (a friend and disciple of Mentzer), has a program that implements these principals of brief, infrequent maximal effort training, AND eliminates these two issues. I present to you: Max contraction training (link). He talks about how a scientist in the 50s proved great results simply by a maximal muscular contraction of just 1-6 seconds.

I have applied this routine to a degree, simply contracting a muscle as hard as possible either on its own or against an immovable object (isometric), briefly and infrequently, and I honestly have had better results doing this the past 2 months than in years of traditional bodybuilding. Each day I wake up in amazement of my progress. I will see muscles that I never knew I had; a couple days after a single pull up I noticed new muscles in my upper back that I had never seen before; after a single rep of a chest contraction I grew my stubborn upper chest more in one workout that I never seemed to build with years of bench press (
"Why I never bench press and you shouldn't either" ) .

Some examples of exercises I will do are: flexing bicep in maximal contracted position as hard as possible by using a doorknob, doing the concentric part of a pull up and maximally contracting for a few seconds at the top then dropping, contracting hamstring by lying down placing heel against the ground, holding the contracted portion of a "mountain climber" pose or sit up for abs, simply contracting my rhomboids or rear delts super hard, doing a "lateral raise" against the bottom of my work desk to provide an immovable resistance, placing my forearm against the back of my (opposite) hamstring and contracting my chest across my body, etc etc. Pretty much anything that you feel a contraction will be effective, you can play around yourself. Using weights in a manner shown in the max contraction video is probably just as if not more viable, but I have seen great results even without going to the gym. The many forms of Isometrics I mentioned, contracting against an immovable object, will provide great stimulation as it will recruit ALL of the possible muscle fibers MAXIMALLY. This is a key principal of HIT (henemens size principal), fatiguing the fast twitch muscle fibers. It can be achieved in any rep range by simply training to failure, but isometrics allow you to do so with minimal/no lactic acid as only one contraction is required.

There was a wrestler named the great gama, who is famous for going 5000-0 in his bouts (yes you read that right) , who touted the benefits of maximal isometric contractions that inspired me to use immovable objects instead of the weights shown in the max contraction video. (that and I don't have a training partner crazy enough to train this way with me lol) Essentially it is the same concept, providing maximal resistance, stimulating the fast twitch muscle fibers ( henemens size principal).

'One day after defeating an opponent much larger than he, someone asked him how he was able to get so strong.' "
“It’s really quite simple,” the Indian said good-naturedly. “In the Punjab, where I lived there was a large tree behind my house. Each morning I would rise up early, tie my belt around it, and try to throw it down.” “A tree?” the boy marveled. “For twenty years.” “And you did it?” “No, little one,” Gama smiled, “but after a tree…a man is easy.” Great gama (link) .

^ This may sound like "bro science", but it actually is an example of "Heneman's size principal" in action. When contracting against an immovable object, you are using ALL of your possible effort, thus stimulating fast twitch muscle fibers.

This all may sound unbelievable, too good to be true; is it really not only possible but OPTIMAL to train this brief and infrequently?; but when one considers the biochemistry of the subject, it makes sense. Muscles are ANEROBIC, the opposite of AEROBIC exercise. This is why sprinters have very muscular legs, while a marathon runner is almost always frail. High intensity, short duration exercise such as sprinting uses predominantly fast twitch, carbohydrate burning fibers, while jogging uses slow twitch fibers that rely on fat. It is the fast twitch muscle fibers that are a lot more prone to growth

While the principals of HIT have been demonstrated scientifically ( View: https://youtu.be/ag5YMTcAudw, View: https://youtu.be/NndeNFVf9eU , View: https://youtu.be/wVYEjFZAERw ), and shown to work in practice by the success of Mentzer and Dorian Yates, these principals have been all but forgotten. It was only through an unrelenting, thorough search for a logical approach to building muscle that I discovered HIT. I have always been unconvinced of the science of traditional bodybuilding; I would follow routines and wonder WHY 3 sets of 10 ( View: https://youtu.be/hddsfYdaZ1k ), why 2 minutes of rest, why not 53 seconds of rest? All of these arbitrary decrees never sat right with me. In science, there is no room for the arbitrary, The principals of HIT initially defined by Arthur Jones and popularized by Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates use science and logic, rather than the arbitrary tradition based programs that are popular today.

As to why it's unknown and forgotten, I don't really have a good answer other than the fact that we live in a "dark age" to some degree, with sheeple believing whatever the popular opinion is, rather than using the logical principals created by Aristotle to cultivate knowledge. It is through the use of logic and reason that I was able to discover ray peat and the community, rather than believing whatever info the dietary guidelines told me, and these same principals of logic led me to discover HIT. As a group of logic based people who Perceive, Think, Act; rather than cultivating information simply because an authority figure told you something, I know you all will really appreciate the science based approach of HIT.

The implications of this are staggering. The entire fitness industry is following the high volume approach simply out of tradition, not logic or science. I wonder how many people's lives would be changed with a proper approach to building muscle, how many more people would take up the sport if only minutes a week were necessary. Hell, a gym membership isn't even required! If anyone decided to try these principals out for themselves (after thorough evaluation of the logic of the theory, not per my advice , {Perceive Think Act!}), please update us with your results!

(P.S , I probably did a poor job explaining the exact science behind HIT, Henemens size principal, fast twitch muscles etc., I recommend reading the works of Dr Doug mcguff, Mike mentzer, Arthur jones and the content of Jay Vincent. This post was a spur of the moment thing after seeing this forum on the home page, I just did my best based on my knowledge of the topic)

great insight , thanks

 

[Sitaruîm]

This is a topic I have been pondering as of late, as a peaty young male looking to build muscle safely and effectively. Ray mentions that muscle mass is beneficial as it increases RMB, and also cited studies that show bodybuilders live longer. However, he has concerns with the eccentric stuff and lactic acid production.

So in summary- a good training routine is one that builds muscle, avoids eccentric movements, and minimizes muscle oxygen debt (i.e, "the pump) as it increases lactic acid.

He once said something along the lines of "brief, infrequent use of muscle is good" (probably butchered the quote but something along those line)

His advice reminded me of a famous bodybuilder in the 80's, Mike Mentzer, who postulated that all bodybuilders are overtraining, and the principals of muscle growth only required a brief and infrequent session to momentary muscular failure. Interestingly, in Synchronicity fashion, I discovered Ray's work just weeks after discovering Mentzer. I noticed great crossover between the two. Mentzer actually cited Hans Selyes "the stress of life" in one of his books about the harms of overtraining, which blew me away. Even Mikes nutritional advice was peaty, emphasizing the importance of (simple) carbohydrates and sugar, and dispelling the myth of the whey(ste product) protein industry that you needed to overload the body with protein to build muscle.

He has some great lectures on youtube on the topic of HIT, specifically, his audio tapes: The logical path to successful bodybuilding are a MUST watch for anyone interested in the topic of building muscle. He was a very intelligent man, many regarded him as a philosopher, and after watching these tapes you will realize why. His articulate speaking manner and use of logic is extremely impressive. He dispels much of the authoritarian dogma in the fitness industry, and like Peat, attempts to teach one about the science behind the topic rather than just giving a protocol. In other words, he was a proponent of "Perceive, Think, Act".

In my opinion, the theory of High Intensity Training is the most logical, science backed theory of effective exercise, and is the antithesis of the current state of bodybuilding- high volume "pump" style workouts popularized by Arnold (Mentzer's arch nemesis).

His training was based on the work of a man named Arthur jones, the inventor of Nautilus equipment proved that brief exercise to failure is the optimal way to build muscle

There is a book titled "body by science" that goes into this in more detail for anyone interested. Mentzer also has serval books of his own

As peaty as all of this sounds, minimizing the amount of stress to the organism and only doing the bare minimum required, there is still the concern of both eccentric movements and lactic acid, albeit to a DRASTICALLY lower degree.

Coauthor of body by science, John Little (a friend and disciple of Mentzer), has a program that implements these principals of brief, infrequent maximal effort training, AND eliminates these two issues. I present to you: Max contraction training (link). He talks about how a scientist in the 50s proved great results simply by a maximal muscular contraction of just 1-6 seconds.

I have applied this routine to a degree, simply contracting a muscle as hard as possible either on its own or against an immovable object (isometric), briefly and infrequently, and I honestly have had better results doing this the past 2 months than in years of traditional bodybuilding. Each day I wake up in amazement of my progress. I will see muscles that I never knew I had; a couple days after a single pull up I noticed new muscles in my upper back that I had never seen before; after a single rep of a chest contraction I grew my stubborn upper chest more in one workout that I never seemed to build with years of bench press (
"Why I never bench press and you shouldn't either" ) .

Some examples of exercises I will do are: flexing bicep in maximal contracted position as hard as possible by using a doorknob, doing the concentric part of a pull up and maximally contracting for a few seconds at the top then dropping, contracting hamstring by lying down placing heel against the ground, holding the contracted portion of a "mountain climber" pose or sit up for abs, simply contracting my rhomboids or rear delts super hard, doing a "lateral raise" against the bottom of my work desk to provide an immovable resistance, placing my forearm against the back of my (opposite) hamstring and contracting my chest across my body, etc etc. Pretty much anything that you feel a contraction will be effective, you can play around yourself. Using weights in a manner shown in the max contraction video is probably just as if not more viable, but I have seen great results even without going to the gym. The many forms of Isometrics I mentioned, contracting against an immovable object, will provide great stimulation as it will recruit ALL of the possible muscle fibers MAXIMALLY. This is a key principal of HIT (henemens size principal), fatiguing the fast twitch muscle fibers. It can be achieved in any rep range by simply training to failure, but isometrics allow you to do so with minimal/no lactic acid as only one contraction is required.

There was a wrestler named the great gama, who is famous for going 5000-0 in his bouts (yes you read that right) , who touted the benefits of maximal isometric contractions that inspired me to use immovable objects instead of the weights shown in the max contraction video. (that and I don't have a training partner crazy enough to train this way with me lol) Essentially it is the same concept, providing maximal resistance, stimulating the fast twitch muscle fibers ( henemens size principal).

'One day after defeating an opponent much larger than he, someone asked him how he was able to get so strong.' "
“It’s really quite simple,” the Indian said good-naturedly. “In the Punjab, where I lived there was a large tree behind my house. Each morning I would rise up early, tie my belt around it, and try to throw it down.” “A tree?” the boy marveled. “For twenty years.” “And you did it?” “No, little one,” Gama smiled, “but after a tree…a man is easy.” Great gama (link) .

^ This may sound like "bro science", but it actually is an example of "Heneman's size principal" in action. When contracting against an immovable object, you are using ALL of your possible effort, thus stimulating fast twitch muscle fibers.

This all may sound unbelievable, too good to be true; is it really not only possible but OPTIMAL to train this brief and infrequently?; but when one considers the biochemistry of the subject, it makes sense. Muscles are ANEROBIC, the opposite of AEROBIC exercise. This is why sprinters have very muscular legs, while a marathon runner is almost always frail. High intensity, short duration exercise such as sprinting uses predominantly fast twitch, carbohydrate burning fibers, while jogging uses slow twitch fibers that rely on fat. It is the fast twitch muscle fibers that are a lot more prone to growth

While the principals of HIT have been demonstrated scientifically ( View: https://youtu.be/ag5YMTcAudw, View: https://youtu.be/NndeNFVf9eU , View: https://youtu.be/wVYEjFZAERw ), and shown to work in practice by the success of Mentzer and Dorian Yates, these principals have been all but forgotten. It was only through an unrelenting, thorough search for a logical approach to building muscle that I discovered HIT. I have always been unconvinced of the science of traditional bodybuilding; I would follow routines and wonder WHY 3 sets of 10 ( View: https://youtu.be/hddsfYdaZ1k ), why 2 minutes of rest, why not 53 seconds of rest? All of these arbitrary decrees never sat right with me. In science, there is no room for the arbitrary, The principals of HIT initially defined by Arthur Jones and popularized by Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates use science and logic, rather than the arbitrary tradition based programs that are popular today.

As to why it's unknown and forgotten, I don't really have a good answer other than the fact that we live in a "dark age" to some degree, with sheeple believing whatever the popular opinion is, rather than using the logical principals created by Aristotle to cultivate knowledge. It is through the use of logic and reason that I was able to discover ray peat and the community, rather than believing whatever info the dietary guidelines told me, and these same principals of logic led me to discover HIT. As a group of logic based people who Perceive, Think, Act; rather than cultivating information simply because an authority figure told you something, I know you all will really appreciate the science based approach of HIT.

The implications of this are staggering. The entire fitness industry is following the high volume approach simply out of tradition, not logic or science. I wonder how many people's lives would be changed with a proper approach to building muscle, how many more people would take up the sport if only minutes a week were necessary. Hell, a gym membership isn't even required! If anyone decided to try these principals out for themselves (after thorough evaluation of the logic of the theory, not per my advice , {Perceive Think Act!}), please update us with your results!

(P.S , I probably did a poor job explaining the exact science behind HIT, Henemens size principal, fast twitch muscles etc., I recommend reading the works of Dr Doug mcguff, Mike mentzer, Arthur jones and the content of Jay Vincent. This post was a spur of the moment thing after seeing this forum on the home page, I just did my best based on my knowledge of the topic)

I'm gonna go back to the gym and will apply some of these principles. Will report the progress

 

[Sapien]

I'm gonna go back to the gym and will apply some of these principles. Will report the progress

I just started Mike Mentzers program "heavy duty". You are working out about 2 times a week and only hitting the same muscle group once every 10 days.

Just finished my first workout yesterday, and it is by far the best workout i've ever done! Crazy how effective these short, intense workouts are.

I will try some more of the Max Contraction principals more in the future

 

[damngoodcoffee]

My approach these days is to only exercise breathing through my nose. When you feel the need to breathe through your mouth it is a good indication that you are stressing your body.

This.

Also my other rule is that it has to be mentally stimulating as well.

I like walking and some light intuitive kettlebell stuff. Also playing the drums is great although I haven't had the change to do it much lately. Stuff like gardening and construction work would be great too.

 

[HighT]

@AllHailHaidut That's very interesting. I will try those methods. As for the isometric part I got it but what do you mean by ''brief session till failiure" ?

Is it like you are doing bench press heavy weights as much reps you could do at once and you are done with the workout?

Also about avoiding eccentric movements I have tried it and it doesn't work well. For example I'm pushing on the bench press slowly emphasizing the concentric and than I drop it quicky. And in this manner I'm getting very exausted and can not do even the half volume I'm doing normally.

It feels like trying to minimize eccentric part actually is doing the opposite because by droping the weight quickly, you still controlling the barbell not to smash you and by doing so quicly it puts great pressure on the eccentric part. Hope you got what I mean.

Could you please share some short workout program (beside pushing walls) including weights. I know you already explained in details but my english is not very good and will need somme time to check the links you posted.

 

[Krigeren]

I just started Mike Mentzers program "heavy duty". You are working out about 2 times a week and only hitting the same muscle group once every 10 days.

Just finished my first workout yesterday, and it is by far the best workout i've ever done! Crazy how effective these short, intense workouts are.

I will try some more of the Max Contraction principals more in the future

I commented on this in another recent thread.. Great to hear you are giving this a try. Mentzer had some great ideas, as did his mentor Arthur Jones. However, both downplayed the role of diet in gains which ultimately did not benefit their methods being adopted more widely. I think they did this specifically because they did not want to complicate the adoption of their methods, or in the case of Jones curtail sales of equipment as well. His in/famous "Colorado Experiment" was sponsored specifically to market his equipment, but one thing that was not widely known until later was that the subject of the experiment - Casey Viator - was told that in order to get paid he had to eat and record that he ate 4-5000 kcal per day.

Unless you are quite fat, you will not, and I repeat will _not_, gain muscle unless you are on a caloric surplus. So in order to give this a fair shot, you need to eat (quality food) like it's your job.

Good luck.

 

[Sapien]

@AllHailHaidut That's very interesting. I will try those methods. As for the isometric part I got it but what do you mean by ''brief session till failiure" ?

Is it like you are doing bench press heavy weights as much reps you could do at once and you are done with the workout?

Also about avoiding eccentric movements I have tried it and it doesn't work well. For example I'm pushing on the bench press slowly emphasizing the concentric and than I drop it quicky. And in this manner I'm getting very exausted and can not do even the half volume I'm doing normally.

It feels like trying to minimize eccentric part actually is doing the opposite because by droping the weight quickly, you still controlling the barbell not to smash you and by doing so quicly it puts great pressure on the eccentric part. Hope you got what I mean.

Could you please share some short workout program (beside pushing walls) including weights. I know you already explained in details but my english is not very good and will need somme time to check the links you posted.

Check out the Max contraction training video by John little, mike mentzers best friend / disciple. It’s genuis

 

[Sapien]

I commented on this in another recent thread.. Great to hear you are giving this a try. Mentzer had some great ideas, as did his mentor Arthur Jones. However, both downplayed the role of diet in gains which ultimately did not benefit their methods being adopted more widely. I think they did this specifically because they did not want to complicate the adoption of their methods, or in the case of Jones curtail sales of equipment as well. His in/famous "Colorado Experiment" was sponsored specifically to market his equipment, but one thing that was not widely known until later was that the subject of the experiment - Casey Viator - was told that in order to get paid he had to eat and record that he ate 4-5000 kcal per day.

Unless you are quite fat, you will not, and I repeat will _not_, gain muscle unless you are on a caloric surplus. So in order to give this a fair shot, you need to eat (quality food) like it's your job.

Good luck.

Mentzers nutrition advice was actually very ahead of his competitors and dare I say even “peaty”! He emphasized the importance of carbohydrates, specifically simple carbohydrates, instead of protein. He was infamous for eating sweets even right before competition, whilst his competitors were eating rice and protein powder etc. He downplayed the abundance of protein that is common place at the time. He talks showing why eating a ton of protein is not beneficial and probably detrimental to muscle growth, and about how it was mostly a marketing gimmick to sell Whey(ste product) protein.
View: https://youtu.be/aL9wrPjjcq0